No seriously. If no one on the face of the earth voted, and just left it up to chance. Would they still choose a president for us? I mean, it's all planned out anyway, right? I'm only asking because I'm not voting, and to many people that's a bad thing. Well, it might be, but I just can't seem to make a choice. IMO, both candidates are corrupt, and anyone other than Obama or McCain doesn't stand a chance so what's the point? I wish Kucinich would have stayed in the race. I would have voted for him. Wouldn't the world be better off without a president? Where each community made their own rules based on a consensus? Yeah, that would be ideal, but it's never gonna happen. Now I don't see a reason to vote. What good's it gonna do? We're fucked either way. Your opinions.
I'm not 100% sure about the results of not voting. On the one hand, if no one voted, it implies that senators, congressmen, civil servants, and the like did not vote, which to me pretty much mean the political system would have collapsed anyway. But then again, if it's all planned out, perhaps not. But about the communities, I personally disagree that it will never happen. In fact, it's happening right now. The anarchist and tribalist/anti-civilization movements have been gradually gaining a lot of momentum in past years (I'm sure there are other ideologies that advocate a world made ûp of federated communities driven by concensus decision-making - those two are the ones I am personally involved with so I know for a fact) and with the direction modern society is heading in, I wouldn't be surprised if we see an even greater surge in numbers. Some of these communities already exist in the physical world, while the rest are either cyber communities (such as riotfolk.org), or else tangible communities that do not posess a physical space (such as music scenes, grassroots organizations...) , but that doesn't make them any less meaningful. All we need to do is take back the land and turn our ideals into ways of living.
They already do, it's called the Electorial College. With the contstant stream of corruption, lies and scandals flowing freely from the washington / wall street / media machine for the past 40+ years why in Gods name would anyone be inclined to believe that our Leaders have been chosen by We the Sheeple?? I think I'm just gonna' stay home & masturbate, not that theres much difference, throwing a seed to the wind so to speak. lol Baaa, Baaa, Baaa....
the electoral college would have a guess id say, idk. i said i'm not voting, but if i were 18 i would.
it very well may be set up and i believe that if you have learned as much as you can about all the candidates and then have made the decision to not vote then that is fine and that is your choice however, I strongly dissagree with those who chose either not to vote because they are lazy and taking the easy way out or those whom just vote because of what their friends or family are doing
Well how about the ones that have learned enough about the good ole' Washington two step to know that it's a slanted game and the only people on the loosing end are we the people regardless of who's sitting in the Big Chair? Washington has been shafting We the People at every turn since the inception of the income tax they illegaly force us to pay every year as opposed to getting revenue lawfully thru sales tax, land tax and international trade tarrifs and the Media backs their Myth that it's an acceptable thing to do according to the Constitution (Oh but wait, the house and senate which were supposedly elected by we the people made sure to modify the constitution from what our founding fathers had written to suit their greedy needs), right along with the rest of their power-play schemes, establishing a welfare state and making a good chunk of the Public dependant upon the system rather than thru funding better education for the underprivelaged and enabling them to actually improve their lives, but of course where would their wage-slave labor workforce go? Who would re-package the goods shipped in from China for the wealthy? If a Politician's mouth is moving he's either got some Pork stuck between his teeth or is lying thru them, doesnt matter which Party he is acting mouthpiece for, they are all tools. So try taking it a step further from "being aware of a candidates platform" and try being aware of the greater issue being the defunct and corrupted system they are a part of. And trying to fix a broken political system by working according to the rules it lay's out is quite akin to trying to fix a broken light bulb by simply pumping more electricity into the circuit, it just doesnt work that way.
well then what else, other than at least trying to vote for the best candidate, do you suppose we do?
Well, what do people generally do when a light bulb burns out?? :cheers2: The real question here is of course, "How many Americans does it take to change a lightbulb?"
Since you guys are living in a democracy , you can start a new movement to change the political system to your liking. If enough people support you then you can make a change. Not voting and expecting things to change to your liking without you making an effort is immature and irresponsible. There is a reason we elect politicians to make decision for us. One is that we can't be bothered and the other is that we assume that people who spent their time thinking about these things will have a better understanding of the implications of the different laws they make. As much as I like the idea of a community, I don't think all political decisions should be left to "the people" . Most of us know nothing about economy, agriculture, transportation, weapons and politics, how can we make an informed decision. We can vote on the general direction the government is taking. That's my opinion of course. Feel free to disagree, that's the beauty of democracy.
Well if you choose to believe that our leaders are elected,,, I tend to see our Government as more of a large organized crime syndicate, but hey not like it matters what you or I think right?
By our leaders you mean America's leaders? Do you live in America? I don't know what part of America you live i but I know quite a lot of Americans that like GWB, they elected him. Now some may claim that there is no difference between Obama and Mccain because they both belong to big well established parties. That is true in some ways. But the reason it is that way is because the American people let it happen with apathy , indifference and ignorance. Look at the voters turnout in America - rarely over 60% ( herehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Turnout.png). If the American people were really concerned with the state of the country they would have supported an alternative party . Yes it's not easy for a third party to run in America but part of it is because it doesn't get much support. Of course it matters. It certainly matters to you if you live in the states. Don't get me wrong , I think the American government is terrible, but I have spent many years in Africa and Asia , you don't know how lucky you are. Not just because you live in America but also because it' s the 21st century. We have access to so much information and we know so much that we tend to concentrate on the negative stuff. In fact in the past and in non-democratic countries the situation is much worse, except people there don't have access to information and even when they do they fear for their lives and anyway spend most of their time just surviving that they can't really afford to think about what form of government is ideal.
Well naturally I'm comparativly lucky to countries in where roving bands of millitia working for warlords or local regimes gun down civillians for poops & giggles, but that does nothing to change the facts of my previous posts. Mabey it's done in a more peaceful fashon than you're used to, mabey you buy the crap they spout on TV, mabey you just haven't been here long enough to get the picture. And even if the vote was worth a mound of beans I'd be happier that 60% of a well informed populace turned out for the event rather than 100% of a bunch of misguided dolts following the media trail of whoever is dropping the most crums of hope for them to suck on along the way any day of the week. But the vote is tool of pacification, not change so its a moot point. **Edit / Addendum** I suppose a good analogy would be that while it is in fact better to receive a poke in the eye with a pointed stick as opposed to being roasted alive on a bed of burning coals, this does not mean we should accept the poke willfully.
Fritz, I agree with you to some extent. An individual vote is meaningless. Also the American system is set in such way that whoever wins the election is bound to support consumerism and several other agenda which I don't think I need to specify in this forum. What we seem to disagree on is the reason for this situation. If I'm not mistaken you believe that it is thus because how the people in power arranged it, while I believe it is thus because how the voters sold their power in return for easy life as mindless consumer (I'm referring here to middle class) In my opinion the way to change is not to smash the system cause as long as people are addicted to consumerism, leisure and comfort they will make sure that their country is arrange in such way that laziness and indulgence can me maximized- hence the American system. They might feel bad about the government doing all sort of evil things to get more oil ,but they certainly are not going to consume less because of that. I think what we need is a change in values , in fact this is already happening , but it needs to continue and to be directed by critical thinking and responsible individuals rather than succumbing to popularism (not saying that you are)
By the way, this video is sort of related to what I say (it's 40 minutes long) Talk by Naomi Wolf - The End of America
Well we certainly agree on a few points but as you state how the People have sold their power for opulence and sloth, you believe we have the "currency" available as a nation to buy it back from the theives which we've sold it to whereas I see no examples, nor have I in a great while which show us to be anything but bankrupt. It's like shopping at Macy's with a handfull of Pennies, all yer' gonna' get is a pack of gum at the most, something to sweeten the foul taste in your mouth enough to make you forget the foul taste of the free samples they've been handing out for decades. And sorry mai, I'm on Rural dialup, 2.6 kbps so if theres a written transcript, sure I'll read it but even a 5 minute video can take twice as long to load here. About the only reason I regret moving from the City really. But dont get me wrong, I dont give we the people credit enough to change things via. any form of insurrection, with the current technologies employed by our lords and masters on wall street such as Sonic and Microwave croud controll devices, again we come up short on cash when we reach the register. But theres hope, our efforts to force our version of democracy on those who have held their own ideas about how to live for hundreds of times longer than our nation had been as much as a dream have drained the coffers of the Fed's empty enough to where we are now borrowing from the same nations we used to decry as being Evil for their adherance to different sociopolitical ideals in the hopes of keeping this Ship of fools afloat. When even the Illegal Aliens who've been the very Cartilage to the backbone of our Industries and Agriculture start to leave because even they know they would be better off back home, you know that Ship has some pretty bad leaks. So go Rock the vote to your hearts content if you really think it's going to make a change in how things are done on a Grand scale, it sure couldn't hurt.
And b.t.w, You mean you have close ties with the Electorial College? I can see why you so avidly support the system. j/k, not being mean or nuttin', after all, the one thing they cant take from us is the right to our beliefs, at least not yet
Awww, I havent voted in a long time and I complain all the time Hun. You can too, you dont have to accept either of the lesser of two evils which the media allows the opportunity of running on the big screen, but voting for a 3rd party member with the way the Media has a chokehold on Running mates is just simply a vote against what you see as the darker of two sides. 3rd parties will never win as things are currently arranged and allowed. Untill Running mates are required to meet on equal ground, no private ad's by "Supporters", no Big buisness to fund the multi million dollar campaign trails, just national debates in which all candidates receiving the nomination of their parties are alloted an equal amount of time to discuss their agendas with each other and the American Public. (Remember now, theres really more than just two parties, I know that can be easy to forget around election season) Mud slinging and dirt digging should disqualify them from the process, if they cant play nice, then We the People should make them go sit in the corner till they learn to behave like civilized leaders and not a bunch of schoolkids. If anything, the ones with no right to complain are those who bow their heads and go with the flow of this rusty old machine called the Electorial Process, those who line up to marvel at the show of this decrepid 2 ring circus and stuff themselves on the cotton candy of Politicians promises, which as we should all know by now is just Sugar and empty calories to begin with. Just one more shellgame in their arsenal of way's to keep We the Sheeple in line and complacent. Heres one of the first plans our President Elect has in store for the coffers of taxpayer money. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=obama+gives+30+billion+to+israel&aq=f&oq= Pick your source. But McSame would have done no different. This is not what we need to be doing if we wish to create lasting peace in that region (not that it should be our job to do so in the first place), or stem the tide of hatred fostered against the U.S. in the region by the unlawful creation of that nation. And no, I dont hate Jew's or anything like that, but I dont hate Palestinians or Muslims either. I know, Lets move Israel here!! We the People are so content with funding them like this year after year with guns and money, why not just give them some land in a National Forest, we've got plenty! And we can help them all we want in constructing the new Nation of Israel right here in our own back yard! It would be like our own big grand national nativity scene! Sorry to ramble, but I guess my underlying point being that there are many policies and agendas any given candidate will support. If you dont agree with them, you shouldn't Vote for them. But often times in Election season, these agendas and plans we would normally disagree with get obscured from public scrutiny, they hush up, they vote Present, they go to commercial. But for your sake, I hope you can sleep well in the bed that you've made. :cheers2:
