What to do with depressed friends... (involved)

Do you stick with them or leave them alone? Indulge their dark, paranoid ideas or reject them? Unlimited acceptance or ultimatums? Let them see their effect on you or pretend to be their rock? Show them how angry, helpless and desperate you feel or bury your feelings and put on a happy face? Try to help or let them destroy themselves?
Basically what I am asking is, do you let their illness (read: them citing their illness) walk all over you or do you put your foot down?
I've done my time in the prison cell that is anxiety and depression. I defeated it and rose above it and I never want to go back. I refuse to go back. I refuse to let it control me by any means and nothing inspires so much anger in me as that feeling, that "voice" for lack of a better word, that tells me to feel sad, guilty, afraid of living, or despairing on such a beautiful planet during this little time we have to enjoy it. I WON'T let it control me. I WON'T let it waste any more of my precious time than I already have. I've lost too much as it is.
This person came into my life four years ago, and we used to be closer, but of course, as you do, we have drifted apart as our circle of friends has gone separate ways after college. For a while during school, though, our group was very close, and we made bonds that all of us can still feel, though we are separated (it's only been a year). We chat online once in a while and visit when we can, so this isn't exactly out of the blue.
We all have our problems, but this one guy is a total train wreck. He has an addictive personality- he tells us all the time. He's always drawing these lines in the sand, telling us certain things he'll stay away from, but it's as good as a lie, because within a year, he'll be in it up to his neck and out of control.
He always played video games. The more violent the better. The more he loses, the more angry he gets, and the more he screams and yells at the TV and at everyone in the room who dares speak to him or make a sound that distracts him. Once, I stormed out of the place almost in tears because of how he was acting toward us, like we were just another obstacle in the game and he had to scream us into submission so he could finish his fucking Halo mission. That inspired an intervention- some of his friends got together and told him to cool it with the war games online for a while and that no one thought it was cool or hardcore and he was just hurting everyone and raising his own blood pressure. he eventually apologized to everyone and started playing racing games for a while.
Then the alcohol. Drunk every weekend and every time he could afford a bottle during the week. I'll never understand the draw. How wonderful to spend the night puking your guts out and waking up the next morening feeling like you head is going to explode. We tried to talk to him about it and he would just get defensive. Eventually, he cooled it out on his own, but not before he was barred from two or three local bars and pretty much pissed off everyone in his circle of friends with his drunken hijinks at least once.
Now, cigarettes. He just started recently (WHO THE FUCK STARTS SMOKING AT AGE 22???? WHY????) He tells us now that we're not there with him and he has problems that they are all he has. I told him in no uncertain terms that was scary as fuck to us and that he sounded like a junkie. I expressed my concern and told him why cigarettes set me off (grandfather died horrible death of lung cancer, father has emphysema, mother quit 10 years+ ago and still has chronic bronchitis), and how I didn't want to see him have to suffer like my family did with ill effects and the terrible time he would have quitting them. He lost his shit on me and basically thrashed me for having an opinion on his divine adult decisions or what the fuck ever and then broke down and cried about how sorry he was that he had hurt me and himself and for everything he would do in the future.
WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU DO WITH THAT???
I haven't spoken to him in 4 days. I want desperately to say "hey, are we cool?", but it's so hard to do that... mostly because I don't want him to think I've forgotten the whole thing and the way he reacted was okay and I'm unaffected. I'm not. I've agonized over it for days, and no matter how hard I try not to, it creeps back into my head (thus my reasoning for posting here- it helps me to write these things out of me).
My best friend tells me he does it for attention. My fiance tells me it's bullshit and not to humor him. I'm afraid to start talking to him again because I don't like hearing the dark depression shit he says. It just pisses me off, and I know I'm not mad at him (well, maybe a little), but moreso at his disease. I just want to drag it out of him and beat the shit out of it, and that's coming from a non-violent person. I just want to protect him from it, but at the same time, I want him to be strong enough to resist it like I have- to just tell it to go fuck itself and decide the kind of life I want for myself and not despair while I'm working toward it.
What do I do?? At the moment, he is on speaking terms with my fiance, who is taking some very proactive steps with him, and I am proud of him (my fgiance) for swallowing his feelings and helouing him that way, but I guess I'm just not strong enough.
I'm just so afraid for him. But all he deos is act like it's a curse to have him around. Is he testing us? Does he want us around? Does he want to surround himself with yes men who allow him to destroy himself? Or does he want real people with feelings that give enough of a shit to say "hey buddy, you're gonna kill yourself that way."
I'm just at a loss...

 

dude sounds like a huge dick

you should bolt

your fiancee is right

 

I told him a long time ago I wouldn't give up on him, though sometimes I feel like asking him, "do you want me to leave you alone for good??" (Honestly, I am afraid of what he would say). I'd hate to go back on my promise, but I can't let him drag me back into the quicksand... I'm thinking not so much "bolt" but stand back and let him fight off the demons himself for a while. He always comes around in the end, but these cycles drive me crazy. His deviantArt and Facebook notes read like Kurt Cobain's suicide letter.
Thing is, Kurt had bipolar disorder. This guy tells me he won't seek help because "if he doesn't find the answers himself, then they won't mean anything." Yeah, that's worked out swell for him in the past...
Fer fuck's sake of all the melodramatic bullshit...

I'm in a "fuck him" kind of mood right now. Earlier I felt more understanding. Guess we all go through cycles of some sort... :toetap05:

 

No dont bolt
stay with him, help him
i have depression myself
Dont be angry at him for having depression, Its mostly not his fault
be there for him, listen to him Just promise me you will be there for him
because i have no one

 

to much to read my fried, what you do is up to you, rembering the out come is who you will become, peace

 

yeah you care, obviously, thats a good thing on your part. you just said that you went through a simliar stage in your life, and what did you say? that you got over it! yourself, what cant he?

i doubt half the shit they diagnose people is true, yeah people got problems but they can help themselves out, just like you did.

now, what makes this dude any different? if he wants to wallow in his own self pity and drink and be a dick why should you have to put up with it? if he gets help and trys to be cool, stick around, if he keeps on his bullshit i would say just jet, cause its not gonna get any better.

i have problems with "depression" as they would call it, but i try to keep a level head and be cool and enjoy life, could slip but itry as you did... so i can see where your comin from on that, and cause i ahve a friend like that, and it pisses me off... funny thing is once i called him on his shit, gave him a dose of his own medicine, he quit actin like that. funny huh?

 

Yeah, he has moments where he does that too. After I chew his ass, he straightens out for a while, but it seems as soon as we're away from him and my fiance isn't coddling his ass and I'm not telling him to quit bitching, he slips back into this "I don't need anyone but my dark thoughts" bullshit, and we have to remind him we're still here and if he doesn't quit acting like we don't matter just because we're not holding his hand every minute that we might not be someday... He totally takes us for granted and that's what pisses me off the most.

Oh I get it. I don't get to have feelings because I'm not "sick" anymore. Okay...
How do you help someone that isn't even sure if he wants you around half the time?? What are we supposed to do? Tell him how wonderful he is all the time and how we don't deserve him and that things will all be better someday without him having to work for it?
Fuck that. Life is complicated. It has ups and downs. Some days you're the pigeon and others you are the statue. Sometimes you are the statue for much longer than you would like, and you're allowed to have feelings about that, but self-deprecation and loving your suffering is not the way to deal with it.
Do what I did: Get pissed at it! Tell it it's unwelcome and you would like it to kindly fuck off! Don't be complacent to let it tell you you don't deserve to be happy! Being happy takes work! You don't get free shit in this life, so the sooner you start working toward it and taking the good with the bad, the sooner you can be free of this thing that has you under its thumb.

Screw this, I'm going to watch Star Trek.

 

he sounds like someone who suffers from a disorder where he has to think or figure stuff out to much and that's why every sound or people talking to him pisses him off. though the thing is he should not yell at other people or take his anger out on another for his own problems. if he smokes weed tell him to quit cus for sure it's going to make his condition worse. he needs to exercise and learn meditation to improve his mind. tell him to get into boxing it might help him. deep down inside he probaly likes all you guys but his disorder messes him up.

really you need to be real with him don't fake anything. it sounds like you guys should honestly leave him be. like don't invovle yourself with him just let him do his own thing cus it seems he seeks no attention.

 

Well, with my experience with depressed people, and having being sort of similar a few years ago (with drinking and ciggies anyways)

Just ignore him/move on. I know it sounds harsh, and eve if you don't, putting the fear into him that his friends are growing up and moving well past him will help buck up his idea's.

I was a wreck for a while, but friends started driving, moving out, going to uni and having kids. The thought of letting others slip past you like that is enough, I believe, for this guy to surely see some light at the end of his tunnel.

 

I just drop it because I can't understand them.

 

It sounds like he really needs someone to confide in, and you are making this about you. Yes, you have feelings. But in this situation be strong he is the one with the problem. Be there for him...I don't think he is really trying to hurt you. If he were a sociopath, it would be different. You have to be understanding and firm at the same time. Try not to react to every little thing he does. Instead, be a leader and inspire him to make healthy choices.

I've dealt with plenty of mental illness, including personal issues.

Love heals.

 

OK, not fair. If you read her original post you can see that obviously her, and others, HAVE tried to help him, to be there for him, to be understanding and compassionate, etc. No one is a saint, and no one should have to put up with behavior like this from a friend. While he may not be "trying" to hurt anyone, he is resorting to hurtful behavior constantly. It's gotten to a point where it's harming his relationships, and relationships and friendships have to go both ways in order to be functional and healthy. He may be mentally ill, but he isn't seeking professional help for it, which is ultimately HIS responsibility. Friends cannot be therapists. It's one thing to be there for a friend (which it sounds like her and her other friends have overwhelmingly done so in the past), but you cannot tell this person that it's her responsibility to make her friend better. It most certainly is not. Furthermore, it's obvious she's been a great friend to this guy, as well as the other friends involved, and there comes a time when you've done all you can for a person and they still won't do THEIR part to change. In those cases, it is completely unfair and WRONG to expect those friends to continue humoring the problematic person. That's what we call enabling, and it's not healthy. Oh, and the "leading by example" shit sounds very nice and idealistic, but what makes you think she hasn't already been doing that? It doesn't always work, in fact a lot of the time it really doesn't. About the only advice you gave that I can get behind is learning not to let things he does bother her, but not for the same reasons you give, but for her own sanity in the long term. How lovely a world it would be if love really did heal people, but unfortunately it's not a magical healing cure-all for addiction and mental illness. I completely condone and advocate loving people in general (especially those who are troubled), don't get me wrong, but someone who's on a path of self destruction often doesn't respond to love, which is unfortunate. The simple act of loving a friend is unfortunately not enough to "heal" or "cure" them if they don't also love themselves enough to make the changes they need to make, on their own.

 

So let me clarify a couple of things...I suppose your response of not making it about her and keeping it about him is somewhat valid in that she should not take his actions personally, because he has problems and is acting out to everyone, not just her. So in that respect, I suppose I agree with you. But at the same time if he's repeatedly done hurtful things to his friends, they are not obligated to stick arond and take it.

This touches me personally because I, like the OP have dealt with depression and anxiety over the years, but chose instead of slipping into the abyss to be constructive and try to live through it and better myself and make my life better. I have learned more effective coping strategies than the self destruction that I could have chosen earlier. I realize that not everyone has this ability to turn their lives around. I realize that coping skills are something that not everyone has the ability to master. But I also realize that friends and family who are involved should only have to deal with so much, and that abuse by the mentally ill or addicted person is not something they should have to tolerate. I eventually found that I had to go my separate ways from a friend who has issues, because she continually, despite me talking to her about it, despite others talking to her about it, continued to be abusive in her behavior towards friends. Abusive as in using emotional blackmail, applying lots of pressure on friends to do things for her (basically saying, "if you love me, you'll do this for me" and what if it was something that the friend couldn't do?), calling way late at night to tell me something that could have waited until morning, apologizing for acting a certain way and then continuing to just do it anyway and not seeming to ever retain any "lessons" she learned, etc. I put up with it for 8 of the 11 years we were friends. It was totally a one-sided friendship, as I often bent over backwards to be there for her and went out of my way, but she couldn't be bothered to do the same for me. She made everything all about her, all the time. She never wanted to share in my joys or sorrows with me, because she always had things to complain about and wanted to dominate every conversation. I tried to "lead by example" and love her, and it didn't fucking work. I had to let her go. I don't hate her, and if I saw her on the street I would be civil and kind to her, but I had to let go of this person who was ultimately draining me, despite my wanting to be compassionate for her. In the end she was choosing to continue being the way she was and not get any help or make any effort to change or improve her relationships to others. In the end, she just wanted constant attention at the expense of others and didn't seem to care how things affected her friends and family. That's why I get a bit defensive when people like to say, "well, just be there for them and love them, that always works!" It really doesn't. The person has to love themselves enough to change. The OP's friend and my former friend don't/didn't love themselves enough to take any initiative to get better, so all the love in the world couldn't save them.

 

I've been in and out of his position my whole life. I'm sure there's a lot under the surface he isn't saying, or feels unable to say. Whatever you do, do it out of love, really. If love says let him go for a little while, do that, if love says intervene, try that. You gotta find the way to approach him but you can't add any pressure to the situation. It's tough shit. I've shut the door (not literally) on so many peoples tries on getting in, but it's not like I wasn't hearing them. It's just shit you gotta let pass sometimes on your own. But be there for him, losing a best friend like that can be shattering, whether you're in your shoes or his. Sometimes it helps to give the person their distance / space, and let them come back when they're ready. He probably needs to do some soul searching himself.

Best of luck