What is Money really and what its faults and

I know that this is not strictly a political issue but it may help us to better understand how money is used to govern.

As examples of what I had in mind here are a couple of posts from another thread:

 

money is a standardized tangible trade token

I see no fault with it...the fault lies in us

 

To me it is interesting how it seems that World Banks actually own "all" the money and they only lend it to government at interest and so all money is a contract to pay back to the World Banks that amount plus the interest on that amount.

 

I not sure how the fault lies with the average user of the money.

 

Ya, most people use what little money they have on groceries and other necessary things so I don't see why the burden is on them so much.

The average person has very little say i would think

 

money as debt
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2550156453790090544

 

ah, a topic near and dear to my heart. i maintain that the person on the street rarely ever thinks of 'money'. the illusion is that money 'exists' like any other tangible item...what actually exists is an idea or concept. the power of the human mind has attached 'value' to a piece of paper or a piece of rather useless metal (in the u.s., our coins are no longer silver or even copper, but some amalgam of much cheaper metals). wiki gives a hand:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money

without 'money', kings and dictators cannot tax...if people are trading 6 chickens for a hog, how does the king get his piece of the hog? cut off a leg? if he takes the whole hog, shortly, the poor will revolt because they starve, so starve them just a bit...using money. take a percentage.

one of the shows i usually toss out is 'the Ascent of Money'. it is the most cogent and concise tale of our modern economies that i have yet seen. i'm not going to post a link. it's 4 hours long, most people don't want to be 'that educated', nor do they really care about the idea of money. they simply want their piece of the pie, and to put their heads in the sand. i'm slowly getting so i see those butts stuck up in the air, and i don't even want to take my can of red paint and paint bullseyes on them. ignorance is truly bliss.

the whole thing is 'perception'. when one understands money, one begins to see that the world is not what it seems....going back in history, one can see that controlling food, information, access and commerce has always been how rulers control the populace. controlling money is central to controlling the other items. our idiots are losing their control as we type.

one might ask, 'what does the world bank do?':

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Bank

why, they don't HAVE ANY COMMODITIES IN THEIR BANK! THEY DON'T PRODUCE ANYTHING! for god's sake, why are they so powerful??? capital??? what capital? turnips? bread? gold? where was woodrow wilson when the world needed him? these clowns have fine buildings, big houses and cars, fine clothes to wear, but what DO THEY DO THAT'S SO VALUABLE???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor's_New_Clothes

at the end of nearly any failed government or hegemony, the 'money' is worthless. the 'coin' or currency won't be accepted unless it has perceptual value beyond it's physical form. the continues in a barter system, until some other big shot comes along to put in another 'form of common commercial standard'. when these fuckers slipped off of the gold and silver standard, they perpetrated a sleight of hand on the world that has had no equal before or since.

 

I'm not sure about that.
If most people were in fact spending what little they had on groceries and other necessities, big business wouldn't be as big as they are. People would not use credit cards to buy TVs, cell phones, vacations, etc...

I agree w/ those who feel that the problems that seem to be rooted in money are actually rooted in peoples' irrational desires for material wealth.
Peoples' willingness to be controlled by mass marketing.

 

Any resonal human being always has a feeling that money isn't right, though few of us really know why money is "the root of all evil". The first part of the film "Zeitgeist Addendum" gave me a good foundation to understand the major ills of money in modern times.

The monetary system is the root of all the pain and suffering in this world. Were there no money to earn, people would not become victims, slave and consumers to those with more fiscal assets and acumen.

Give me control of a nation's money supply and I care not who makes it’s laws.

- Amschel Rothschild

 

Thanx, very enjoyable.

 

Very interesting.

I was watching a movie the other day and the plot was that 20 million dollars were up for grabs and what people would do to get their hands on just a portion of it. People were killing each other over what I suddenly realized was a big bag of paper. I thought if it was a bag of newspaper it would have the same intrinsic value as the money in the bag and yet people were willing to kill for it.

 

Money has no real value, but those who control it are given real power.

The world economy is a social injustice.

Our labor does have real value and we give it willingly in trade for currency for lack of a viable alternative. Controlling powers such as employers and banks are able to profit from OUR labor.


Economics makes me feel powerless and used, even when I have more money than I need.


More importantly, the whole world's population (save the elite few) are exploited by the world economy, every living soul.


It's just heartbraking and dismally permanent.


I don't hate the rich for being rich. Even if there is no hope for reforming the economic structure, at the very least the rich and powerful could practice a more ethical use of that power and stop exploiting, plundering, polluting, oppressing, wasting, lying, cheating, stealing, etc.


But ideally the whole system would be restructured to a more logical, sustainable system.

 

OWB, it sounds like some in this thread, myself and you included, are on the path to heresy. among the farmers and ranchers i know (only a few), they see the disconnect. they understand that land, their animals and their crops are what they have of value for themselves and the world. the problem they face is they must work within the 'paper' system to keep it because of taxes and expenses.

i won't mention 'who', but someone made a comment in another thread about subsidies. the reason subsidies exist is to keep the knowledgeable 'food producer' from going the way of so many family farms. it was necessary to keep that knowledge alive and working to feed the country. what has happened is many went under anyway, and the corporations now get the lion's share of subsidies.

when i think of 'value' (ever read 'Zen and The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance'?), i think of food and water first. not yet are we killing each other over food and water in most parts of the world. when that begins to occur, we're going to see a terrible thing. killing for paper-this shows how deeply into psychology the idea of 'money' has grown. i understand stealing a car or a loaf of bread...but paper? it is on a strange level.

tuesdaystar, i cannot ever see, after over 400 years of manipulation, the 'money economists' relinquishing control. there would have to be a massive disaster. as stinkfoot often says, not enough are awake to do it by popular fiat...not enough are educated, nor would they agree on 'how'.

so, the question was 'what are its faults?'....this will be so simplistic, it will sound stupid....if one thinks further, one realizes this is a major flaw in the concept of money for those 'not controlling the system':

gold, silver, food, oil, knives, thread....in any kind of quantity, these things are difficult to move, subject to easy theft (you see them, you know the other person/group has them). they are not universally acceptable for trading. if the person who has a chicken wants to trade it for a spool of thread, they have to first find someone with a surplus spool of thread, then get them to agree they want to trade for a chicken. if the thread person wants a knife instead of a chicken...well, you see the problem...gotta find a person who'll trade a knife for a chicken.

then we moved to gold and silver coins. these were easier as a medium of trade, but still...large quantities required large security. and there is a limited amount of gold and silver to put into the market (or circulation, as it's known). as well, if a few rich individuals horde too much, 'the velocity' of currency falls...and there may be currency inflation. the need for coinage may rise so that the value of the coinage also rises...5 chickens, instead of 3 for a gold coin.

then came about 'paper, representative money'. easy to hide, the face denomination eased transport problems. it was also, and may still be, easy to counterfeit. then....a complete removal of the 'real' representation of 'value' to digits.....one might have been able to see when book accounting became widespread that the digits had the same value as the paper/coinage.

when computers came along, the move to 'digitization' was easy. digits are even easier to fake. the whole system, as it became easier to move 'value', became easier to manipulate, as well.

however, 'value' never changed. a chicken is still food. you could not eat gold (i read some story of the roman empire, wherein a captured 'general' who loved gold had molten gold poured into his mouth by the turks or persians); you cannot eat digits. this is where, when realization strikes one, the system of fiat currency becomes 'an illusion'...and where the mind begins to drift away from everyday thinking. the realization that the mind is being manipulated leads one to resent that manipulation. all sorts of events can occur within the individual, such that they wish to become a hippie...perhaps. or to 'turn on, tune in, drop out'...or to look at buddhists who say 'this is a world of illusion', and understand some of what they mean...psy war. practiced on all of us.

edit due to failing mind:

one rarely makes interest on chickens, rocking chairs or toilet cleaning. therefore, the only way for the sneaky and truly lazy to get 'a job' they can handle, was to go into banking and loans. this led to having to invent 'money' as we now know it. like tom sawyer, if they had to sweat and paint a fence, they'd try desperately to find a way out of it.

if a car cost 350 chickens, and the dealer didn't want chickens....how would you ever buy a car?

apply these thoughts to other situations, and more entertaining ideas will flow from your mind.

 

Finally! Money is the issue at hand. Since the US is insolvent, I.e. not able to pay its debts to the IMF, all titles of ownership are in abeyance and rights to all propery, including titles of nobility and honor are abandoned awaiting for the creditors to appropriate. The reason the political leaders are not making decisions for the benefit of the persons is because the trust fund known as the Federal REServe is here under charitable trust, also known as cestaque vie trust. Anyone claiming to be the sole beneficiary of any property becomes attached to the national debt. AU_nder the treaty clause of the constitution, international law is the supreme law of the land. So whatever treaty the US is a member of can institute lagal proceedings via the hague conventions and any charters which It is a member of as partnerships. Just as if u were at a resturaunt and could not pay, u have to work it off. Peonage. An to take a benefit fr a constitution u immediately become a constitutor, one who becomes liable for the debts of another. Since we are actually persona non grata, an a ward with no eatate, u pledge ur future labor as the commodity available to keep the money on account going. Since the national debt exists, anything grantes by the ptb, is a privilege. Ask urself wat contribution did u make to the partnership, snd if u don't kno looks like u will be pledging ur labor again in violation of the trading with the enemy act. Now who knows wat legal system is the US operating under?

 

Can anybody here speak legalese?

 

Money is the equivalent of an animal in the wild ripping its prey's throat to shreds. Humans created money to avoid getting their hands bloody in the fight for survival. The same brutality that applies to primal hunting applies to the economic world.

 

Not as a first language. Is it related to bengalese?

 

Ah lol! So u speak in codes? Good, did u read my post?

 

i do a little bit, but not enough to gather where you were headed above. i don't recognize international law, in any case. i barely recognize local law for that matter. the law of the jungle is what has always prevailed, and always will. a lawyer is more of a hindrance in those 'courts'.

 

I read it but probably missed a part or two, not my first language as I said.