what is a sin? and who determines whether an action is a sin or not?

Discussion in 'Christianity' started by Archemetis, Jan 18, 2005.

  1. Archemetis

    Archemetis Senior Member

    i wonder...what makes a sin a sin??? iv come to believe there are no sins, only action and reaction...cause and effect....karma if you will. our choices and thoughts create our reality. if we're stuck in negetive thoughts and actions, the resulting emotions are negetive and our reality is a negetive one.
    or if our thoughts and actions are positive, our reality is positive and we feel at peace. so ultimatly we create our own heaven or our own hell, we are creaters, composed of the same energy of the divine.

    so im asking those who believe that sin (or absence of) will in the after life lead us into hell or heaven, what exactly defines a sin? and arent we already paying for our choices in this life? why would we be punished for it later for an eternity? it seems to me the divine understands teh human expirience, because the divine is the human expirience....and we are a part of that expirience.

    also...would you still define an action as a sin, if an individual believes his actions are in no way negetive?...or are even positive in his eyes.

    we are all born into this dream with no direction, borders, or rules exept for those we choose to accept and live by (as we are born with free will.) so what makes one mans interpretation of that free will correct, and another mans interpretation a sin?

  2. BlackGuardXIII

    BlackGuardXIII fera festiva

    that is easy. does it harm or does it help?
    Is it out of love or out of fear?
    And it harm none, do what you will.
  3. Archemetis

    Archemetis Senior Member

    yes but many would say having consented pre-marital sex is a sin, or eating acid is a sin, or various other things that harm none, and even in some cases help some. so my questions are more directed at those who would interpret these things as sins.
  4. BlackGuardXIII

    BlackGuardXIII fera festiva

    Ah yes, well that is something to look into. When the chattel (the wife) is given away by the father to her new owner the husband, then it is ethical to do what you want with her. If he were to be utilizing his new possession, thereby rendering her no longer new but more like a demo model with less value, when she is still the property of her father, his premature operation would be wrong. Indeed
  5. Archemetis

    Archemetis Senior Member

    wouldnt viewing and treating women like property (whether she's your daughter or wife) and not letting her interpret her free will as she would like be harmful to her individuality...and therefore a sin?

    and what makes a female who's engaged in pre-marital sex less valuable than a virgin? that seems to me to be one mans interpretation of reality, and no mans interpretation speaks for all.
  6. dutch_diciple

    dutch_diciple Member

    Sin is to rebel against God and to go against His will. To break His law. To do what He doesn't wants. This sin causes seperation between God and man. Sin leads to death.
  7. Archemetis

    Archemetis Senior Member

    but what im getting at is who is it that gets to decide what a sin is? last i knew, god didnt come talk to everyone as children and tell us what actions are sins and what actions are not. that is up to the individual to interpret...not the priest or preacher, because their interpretation is in no way more or less valid than mine or yours, they were born into this maelstrom the same as we were with no knowledge of the nature of reality behind the veil.

    "sin causes seperation between God and man." i agree, though it ultimatly again depends on what one considers a sin. for some smoking ganje is a sin, and when they do it they feel seperated from god...for others it is not a sin and they in no way feel seperated from god and may even feel more connected with god, because they are having a good time high, recognizing the beauty all around them.

    so one can conclude that the seperation sin causes between man and god, is not so much caused by the act of sinning...but by that mans interpretation of what a sin is. one could then assume that god does not push away man for any action that is, in his mind, not a sin....there fore there is no sin, only guilt. its the guilt that pushes god away from man.
  8. ZePpeLinA

    ZePpeLinA Jump around!

    There isnt such thing as sin...
    Our conscience is what tell us what we are doing wrong or right. We are the only judges of our behaviour.
    There's no punishment for wrong doing anywhere but here on earth.
  9. dutch_diciple

    dutch_diciple Member

    Even though one can feel without guilt, one can still be guilty. You don't need to feel guilty to be sinful, you don't need to feel seperated from God to be seperated from God. Our conscience is like a compass, but man is not perfect because of sin (it's not only an action, it's also a nature that is in every human being) so the compass can give wrong directions. That both means doing something sinful but feeling no guilt, and doing something ok but feeling guilt.
    God gave us His Law in His Word, so that we know what is sinful and what is not. Jesus walked here on earth to show us how it's done. And the Holy Spirit teaches us to walk a life worthy to the gospel.
  10. arlia

    arlia Members

    sin is something in which seperates us from god!
    sometihng which corrupts our thoughts
  11. TrippinBTM

    TrippinBTM Ramblin' Man

    Problem is, no one knows what god wants, what his will is. So that's a useless point, really.

    There's also that problem that what if what I'm doing I think is right and good, but is considered a sin by another? Who's code do we go by? Who's right? Is it wrong to have more than one wife, or is it alright? Different cultures have different things to say on this. In one culture it's evil, in another everyone's happy. Who's to decide? Reletivism does exist, you can't just arbitrarily choose one moral code as the standard, because what makes that the standard? Nothing more than an opinion.

    I agree with Blackguard, no harm no foul. There is one problem; we can't control whether or not our actions hurt someone. I can't control a person's reaction, maybe when I think I'm helping, he's being hurt. But given the information I do have and the control I can exercise, I can only do what I think is best. I guess that's what's called an internal moral compass?

    I don't believe in sin or eternal punishment, seems archaic and legalistic. I just go by "negetive and positive," and I aim for positive because that tends to make most people happy (including myself). Of course, everyone's definitions of what's positive is different, but I do the best I can, karma takes care of the rest.
  12. That's not true. You can also sin if you do something that's not against God's will. It's said in the Bible somewhere that if you sin against your conscience, so if you sin against what you think is God's will, even though it isn't, it is a sin.

    8:1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
    8:2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
    8:3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him.
    8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
    8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
    8:7 Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
    (King James Bible, 1 Corinthians)

    I can't answer the question what a sin is. I think it differs from time to time and depends on the situation as well. It is said that you shouldn't lie, but it is also said that you should hide people from the enemy, so that would allow you to lie. God didn't put a list in the Holy Books with all the things that are a sin, because He gave us the ability to think, so we are able to figure it out for ourselves.
  13. dutch_diciple

    dutch_diciple Member

    with the Bible as guidance. By the way, I hope no-one will get the idea to discuss the authority of the Bible overhere, there's another thread for that.

    And the thing about the conscience. Well for some persons in the first christian church, eating meat that was blessed by priests of the temples was ok because they knew they had victory in Christ over satan and that they were safe in Him. The Bible calls these 'strong in faith'. but there were also those who didn't eat this meat because they wanted to have nothing to do with the idolatry, they still had some fear for the gods. The Bible calls these 'weak in faith'. yet both are with Jesus and this differences should be accepted, as written in the book 'Romans'.
    And Paul says that even though he might agree with the 'strong faith' people, if that would cause some weak faith people to fall away from Jesus, he would never eat meat again in his life if that would save some weak of faith people. So even though he knows that it isn't sinful in Gods eyes, he still wouldn't do it for the sake of those weak in faith.

    By the way, sin isn't just doing bad things, it's also not doing good things. So for example cursing is a sin, but not having compassion is also a sin.
  14. Never thought of it that way, but it's true of course. :sunglasse
  15. All the christians here sound so certain about judging sin.
    I thought the only concrete ones were the famous ten. Arguably Jesus' quotes can be said to be the direct word of god (if you beleive) but I thought the rest was supposed to be certain men's interpretation of god's will, and therefore fallible to some extent.

    so by gods word, if you kill a child who would grow up to be a genetasist, who through no fault of there own, discovers information that is used to kill a nation with germ warfare. That is a sin. Despite the fact you would save millions from suffering and death.
    Who can judge?
    Is it about balance or is it about set rules?

    What if a sick person who is really suffering steals money for medicene from a millionaire who'll never miss it, and earned their millions immoraly?
    It's worth so much to the dying man and nothing to the rich man, you've done no harm. However, god's concrete rules have been broken! He is now condemned unless he repents.
    Sorry, but I don't see what the sick man should apologise for.
    Can you not see that it can sometimes get a tad more complex that "god said so!"
  16. You can't judge, I can't judge, God can judge.

    You should not take your faith in your own hands, God is the One to decide about what's happening. There's a reason for suffering, it even can be a blessing, so we humans are in no position to break the ten commandments.
  17. If it is god that decides what's supposed to happen, and your only reference for his word is the bible, then you must take it all literally, surely? So for example, a man may not touch anything that has been touched by a menstrating women or he will be unclean for the rest of the day. Do you follow this at home? AS GOD COMMANDS!!! It must make it rather akward to flush the toilet or use the kettle. Have you ever eaten any kind of shellfish? Again you should have abided by god's holy doctrine! Surely the anti-pork message of the Jews must be from the OT. Ever eaten bacon? Who are we to decide which parts are important?

    Im no bible scholar by the way, I stole those from someone elses post I saw.

    If god's supposed to decide what's happening what happened with the classic "eye for an eye" "turn the other cheek" contradiction. Surely if the bible is god's word and he is omnipotent, he'd get it right the first time, and Jesus would have no corrections to make? Or was it man's mistake in what was written? Either way, those are pretty big problems, right?
  18. mynameiskc

    mynameiskc way to go noogs!

    the food guidelines are still pretty sensible today. pork, when not cooked properly, can make you very ill. shellfish is very high in cholesterol, as are predatory birds. having discovered that these foods are kinda nasty, many people today are deciding not to eat them out of just good sense. sorry to ruin your rant.

    as for the rest of the levitical laws, you're dealing with a very patriarchal society and how they sustained their control and their power. i think all this is very interesting from a sociology perspective, but jesus was one hell of a feminist. i'm not a jew, i'm christian. i follow christ's teachings, his clarifications, his CORRECTIONS of a polluted law.
  19. BlackGuardXIII

    BlackGuardXIII fera festiva

    If god's supposed to decide what's happening what happened with the classic contradiction. Surely if the bible is god's word and he is omnipotent, he'd get it right the first time, and Jesus would have no corrections to make? Or was it man's mistake in what was written? Either way, those are pretty big problems, right? astralgoldfish

    If you look at the eye for an eye commandment as refering to society as a whole, to be used when formulating laws that will aid in harmonizing societal relations, then it could be God's advice to communities as a whole, and not to be applied to individual peoples one on one relationships.
    Then, turn the other cheek completes the coverage, by advising what to do in the area of personal relationships, and not meant to be applied to societies as a whole, or to be used as a basis for law. Its value would be in creating harmony on an individual one on one level.
    Looked at this way, they are not contradictory, but instead are complimentary.
  20. Amanda N

    Amanda N Member

    This is interesting... are you saying that if you don't sin, you won't die?

    So the original poster... I don't believe that sin exists myself, because I don't believe that evil exists... I don't want to go into lots and lots of details here and now about it because I've covered it so many times... but check out this thread, and it covers a lot of what I believe (it was good to find someone on here that shared my view):


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