What does John1:1 really say and mean in Greek?!

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Hi everyone, I hope you are all fine and happy today and everyday, Amen =)​

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I gathered some information regarding John1:1
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*John 1:1 by: Misha'al ibn Abdullah è(post#2)
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(1) Mistranslation of the text è (post#2)
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(2) Basic message of John è (post#3)
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(3) Who wrote the "Gospel of John"? è (post#3)
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(4) Who "inspired" the author of this gospel to write this verse? è (post#4)
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(5) What was "The Word"? è (post#5)
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*John 1:1 by: Shahid Bin Waheed è (post#5)
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* John 1:1 by: Dr. Bilal Philips è (post#6)
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* John 1:1 by: Dr. catstevens è (Click here)
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I added some information too =)
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Here we go…
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Yours Sincerely,
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Cat Stevens
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John 1:1
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By: Misha'al ibn Abdullah ©
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Another verse quoted in defense of the "Trinity" is the verse of John 1:1:
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"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God"
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This verse too can not be interpreted to justify a "triune" God.
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First of all, it is quite obvious from simply reading the above verse that even in the very best case; this verse speaks only of a "Duality" not a "Trinity." Even the most resolute conservative Christian will never claim to find in this verse any mention whatsoever of a "merging" of a Holy Ghost with God and "the Word." So even if we were to accept this verse at face value and just have faith, even then, we find ourselves commanded to believe in a "Duality" and not a "Trinity." But let us see if this verse does in fact even command us to believe in a "Duality." To do this we need to notice the following points:
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(1) Mistranslation of the text
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In the "original" Greek manuscripts (Did the disciple John speak Greek?), "The Word" is only described as being "ton theos"(divine/a god) and not as being "ho theos" (The Divine/The God). A more faithful and correct translation of this verse would thus read: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was divine"
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(If you read the New World Translation you will find…)
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CatStevens*******
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In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god
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Click here to read this verse from the New World Translation
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*The Jehovah's Witness proposal is that the Greek should be translated, "the Word was a god", because the definite article is absent in the Greek. (Andrew Perry)
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In the beginning the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was divine Click here to read this verse from (AAT) An American Translation you will find the verse in the second part of the page
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The New Testament, An American Translation, Edgar Goodspeed and J. M. Powis Smith, The University of Chicago
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In an ancient time there was the Word, the Word was with God and the Word was powerful
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Click here to read this verse from (An American English Bible)
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******CatStevens
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And again in the dictionary of the Bible, under the heading of "God" we read
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"Jn 1:1 should rigorously be translated 'the word was with the God [=the Father], and the word was a divine being.'"
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The Dictionary of the Bible by John McKenzie, Collier Books, p. 317
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In yet another Bible we read:
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"The Logos (word) existed in the very beginning, and the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine"
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The Holy Bible, Containing the Old and New Testaments, by Dr. James Moffatt
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"The Logos (word)" read post 4 and post 6*
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Please also see "The Authentic New Testament" by Hugh J. Schonfield and many others.
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If we look at a different verse, 2 Corinthians 4:4, we find the exact same word (ho theos) that was used in John 1:1 to describe God Almighty is now used to describe the devil, however, now the system of translation has been changed:
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"the god of this world (the Devil) hath blinded the minds of them which believe not." (KJV)
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CatStevens*******
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Satan, the god of this evil world, has blinded the minds of those who don't believe (NLT) ******CatStevens
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According to the system of the previous verse (KJV) and the English language, the translation of the description of the Devil should also have been written as "The God" with a capital "G." If Paul was inspired to use the exact same words to describe the Devil, then why should we change it? Why is "The God" translated as simply "the god" when referring to the devil, while "divine" is translated as the almighty "God" when referring to "The Word"? Are we now starting to get a glimpse of how the "translation" of the Bible took place?
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Well, what is the difference between saying "the word was God," and between saying "the word was a god (divine)"? Are they not the same? Far from it! Let us read the bible:
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"I have said, Ye (the Jews) are gods; and all of you are children of the most High"
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Psalms 82:6
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"And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh"
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Exodus 7:1
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"the god of this world (the Devil) hath blinded the minds of them which believe not."
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2 Corinthians 4:4
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What does all of this mean? Let me explain.
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In the West, it is common when one wishes to praise someone to say "You are a prince," or "You are an angel" ..etc. When someone says this do they mean that that person is the son of the King of England, or a divine spiritual being? There is a very slight grammatical difference between saying "You are a prince" and between saying "You are THE prince," however, the difference in meaning is quite dramatic.
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Further, it is necessary when translating a verse to also take into account the meaning as understood by the people of that age who spoke that language. One of the biggest problems with the Bible as it stands today is that it forces us to look at ancient Hebrew and Aramaic scriptures through Greek and Latin glasses as seen by people who are neither Jews, Greeks, nor Romans. All of the so called "original" manuscripts of the NT available today are written in Greek or Latin. The Jews had no trouble reading such verses as Psalms 82:6, and Exodus 7:1, while still affirming that there is only one God in existence and vehemently denying the divinity of all but God Almighty. It is the continuous filtration of these manuscripts through different languages and cultures as well as the Roman Catholic church's extensive efforts to completely destroy all of the original Hebrew Gospels (I may write a thread regarding the Roman Catholic church someday) which has led to this misunderstanding of the verses.
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The Americans have a saying: "Hit the road men." It means "It is time for you to leave." However, if a non-American were to receive this command without any explanation then it is quite possible that we would find him beating the road with a stick . Did he understand the words? Yes! Did he understand the meaning? No!
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In the Christian church we would be hard pressed to find a single priest or nun who does not address their followers as "my children." They would say: "Come here my children", or "Be wary of evil my children" ... etc. What do they mean?
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A fact that many people do not realize is that around 200AD spoken Hebrew had virtually disappeared from everyday use as a spoken language. It was not until the 1880s that a conscious effort was made by Eliezer Ben-Yehudah to revive the dead language. Only about a third of current spoken Hebrew and basic grammatical structures come from biblical and Mishnaic sources. The rest was introduced in the revival and includes elements of other languages and cultures including the Greek and Arabic languages.
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Even worse than these two examples are cases when translation into a different languages can result in a reversal of the meaning. For example, in the West, when someone loves something they say "It warmed my heart." In the Middle East, the same expression of joy would be conveyed with the words: "It froze my heart." If an Mideasterner were to greet a Westerner with the words: "It froze my heart to see you," then obviously this statement would not be greeted with a whole lot of enthusiasm from that Westerner , and vice versa. This is indeed one of the major reasons why the Muslims have been so much more successful in the preservation of their holy text than the Christians or the Jews; because the language of the Qur'an has remained from the time of Muhammad (pbuh) to the present day a living language, the book itself has always been in the hands of the people (and not the "elite"), and the text of the book remains in the original language of Muhammad (pbuh). For this reason, a translator must not and should not "translate" in a vacuum while disregarding the culture and traditions of the people who wrote these words. As we have just seen, it was indeed quite common among the Jews to use the word "god" (divine) to convey a sense of supreme power or authority to human beings. This system, however, was never popularly adopted by them to mean that these individuals were in any way omnipotent, superhuman, or equal to the Almighty.
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To be continued…
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Yours Sincerely,
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Cat Stevens
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(2) Basic message of John​

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Now that we have seen the correct translation of the verse of John 1:1, let us go a little further in our study of the intended meaning of this verse. This verse was taken from the "Gospel of John." The very best person to ask to explain what is meant by a given statement is the author of that statement himself. So let us ask "John" what is his mental picture of God and Jesus (pbuh) which he wishes to convey to us:​

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"Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him." John 13:16.​

So the author of John tells us that God is greater than Jesus. If the author of this Gospel did indeed wish us to understand that Jesus and God are "one and the same," then can someone be greater than himself?​

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Similarly, ​

"Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I." John 14:28.​

Can someone "go" to himself? Can someone be "greater" than himself?​

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"These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:" John 17:1.​

If John meant to tell us that "Jesus and God are one and the same" then shall we understand from this verse that God is saying to Himself "Self, glorify me so that I may glorify myself"? Does this sound like this is the message of John? ​

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"While I (Jesus) was with them in the world, I kept them in thy (God's) name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled." John 17:12.​

If the author of John wanted us to believe that Jesus and God are one person then are we to understand from this verse that God is saying to Himself "Self, while I was in the world I kept them in your name, self. Those who I gave to myself I have kept ..."? Is this what the author intended us to understand from his writings?​

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"Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world." John 17:24.​

Similarly, did the author intend us to interpret this as "Self, I will that they also whom I have given myself be with me where I am; that they my behold my glory which I have given myself, for I loved myself before the foundation of the world"?​

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So, we begin to see that in order to understand the writings of a given author, it is necessary to not take a single quotation from him in a vacuum and then interpret his whole message based upon that one sentence (and a badly mistranslated version of that sentence at that).​

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(3) Who wrote the "Gospel of John"?​

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The "Gospel of John" is popularly believed by the majority of regular church-goers to be the work of the apostle John the son of Zebedee. However, when consulting Christianity's more learned scholars of Church history, we find that this is far from the case. These scholars draw our attention to the fact that internal evidence provides serious doubt as to whether the apostle John the son of Zebedee wrote this Gospel himself. In the dictionary of the Bible by John Mckenzie we read ​

"A. Feuillet notes that authorship here may be taken loosely." ​

Such claims are based on such verses as 21:24: ​

"This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true."? ​

Did the apostle John write this about himself? Also see 21:20, 13:23, 19:26, 20:2, 21:7, and 21:20-23: The "disciple who Jesus loved" according to the Church is John himself, but the author of this gospel speaks of him as a different person. ​

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Further, The Gospel of John was written at or near Ephesus between the years 110 and 115 (some say 95-100) of the Christian era by this, or these, unknown author(s). According to R. H. Charles, Alfred Loisy, Robert Eisler, and other scholars of Christian history, John of Zebedee was beheaded by Agrippa I in the year 44 CE, long before the fourth Gospel was written. Did the Holy Ghost "inspire" the apostle John's ghost to write this gospel sixty years after he was killed? . In other words, what we have here is a gospel which is popularly believed to have been written by the apostle John, but which in fact was not written by him. In fact no one really knows for certain who wrote this gospel.​

"Since the beginning of the period of modern critical study, however, there has been much controversy about [the Gospel of John's] authorship, place of origin, theological affiliations and background, and historical value" ​

The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible, Volume 2, Abingdon Press, p. 932​

To be continued…​

Yours Sincerely,​

Cat Stevens​

 

(4) Who "inspired" the author of this gospel to write this verse?
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The words of John 1:1 are acknowledged by most reputable Christian scholar of the Bible as the words of another Jew, Philo of Alexandria (20BC-50AD), who claimed no divine inspiration for them and who wrote them decades before the "gospel of John" was ever conceived. Groliers encyclopedia has the following to say under the heading "Logos"("the word"):
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"Heraclitus was the earliest Greek thinker to make logos a central concept ......In the New Testament, the Gospel According to Saint John gives a central place to logos; the biblical author describes the Logos as God, the Creative Word, who took on flesh in the man Jesus Christ. Many have traced John's conception to Greek origins--perhaps through the intermediacy of eclectic texts like the writings of Philo of Alexandria."
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T. W. Doane says:
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"The works of Plato were extensively studied by the Church Fathers, one of whom joyfully recognizes in the great teacher, the schoolmaster who, in the fullness of time, was destined to educate the heathen for Christ, as Moses did the Jews. The celebrated passage : "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word Was God" is a fragment of some Pagan treatise on the Platonic philosophy, evidently written by Irenaeus. It is quoted by Amelius, a Pagan philosopher as strictly applicable to the Logos, or Mercury, the Word, apparently as an honorable testimony borne to the Pagan deity by a barbarian........We see then that the title "Word" or "Logos," being applied to Jesus, is another piece of Pagan amalgamation with Christianity. It did not receive its authorized Christian form until the middle of the second century after Christ. The ancient pagan Romans worshipped a Trinity. An oracle is said to have declared that there was 'First God, then the Word, and with them the Spirit'. Here we see the distinctly enumerated, God, the Logos, and the Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost, in ancient Rome, where the most celebrated temple of this capital - that of Jupiter Capitolinus - was dedicated to three deities, which three deities were honored with joint worship."
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From Bible Myths and their parallels in other religions, pp. 375-376.
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Relevant links:
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Click here to review this book online!​

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Pagan Roots of the Trinity Doctrine
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The Apostle's Creed
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The Nicene Creed
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The Athanasian Creed
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Click here and read posts 121+122 to see the influence of pagan beliefs and practices in Paul's formation of Christianity
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Plus, read post 6
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To be continued…
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Yours Sincerely,
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Cat Stevens
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(5) What was "The Word"?
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"O people of the book! Commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of Allah aught but the truth. The Messiah Jesus the son of Mary is a messenger of Allah, and His Word ("Be!" - and he was), which he bestowed upon Mary, and a spirit from Him, so believe in Allah and his messengers. Say not "Three," desist! (it is) better for you, for Allah is one God. Glory be to him. Far exalted is he above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And enough is Allah as a disposer of affairs." The noble Qur'an
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In the Qur'an we are told that when God Almighty wills something he merely says to it "Be" and it is.
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" Verily! Our (Allah's) Word unto a thing when We intend it, is only that We say unto it "Be!" - and it is" The noble Qur'an
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This is the Islamic viewpoint of "The Word." "The Word" is literally God's utterance "Be."
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This is held out by the Bible where thirteen verses later in John 1:14 we read:
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"And the Word was made flesh".
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CatStevens*******
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More examples:
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Genesis1:22:
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God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth."
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Genesis 1:28
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God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."
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Etc ****** CatStevens
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John 1:1
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By: Shahid Bin Waheed ©
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John KJV reads:
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1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
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Let us read like this!
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1:1 In the beginning was the Wisdom, and the Wisdom was with God, and the Wisdom was God.
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Before you wonder that why I did that? Let me inform you that I didn’t, it was a German scholar by the name of “Manfred Barthel” who wrote a book in German under title “Was Wirklich in der Bibel Steht” in 1924. This book has been translated into English by Mark Howson under the title “What the Bible Really Says.” I have the 1984 edition in my possession that was published by Bell Publishing Company, distributed by Crown Publishers, Inc. by arrangement with William Morrow & Company, Inc. ISBN 0-517-460025.
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The author Manfred Barthel said on Page 345 3rd paragraph that I quote:
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Substitute “wisdom” for “the Word” (the Greek logos means both), and the meaning is very clear: God’s wisdom created all things and God existed even before “the beginning” in which the heavens and earth were created.
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To be continued…
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Yours Sincerely,
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Cat Stevens
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John 1:1
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By: Dr. Bilal Philips ©
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Perhaps the most commonly quoted ‘evidence’ for Jesus’ divinity is John 1:1&14, “1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God....14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth...”
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However, these statements were not made by Jesus Christ, nor were they attributed to him by the author of the Gospel according to John. Consequently, these verses do not constitute evidence for Jesus’ divinity, especially considering the doubts held by Christian scholars about the Fourth Gospel. The Bible scholars who authored The Five Gospels said: “The two pictures painted by John and the synoptic gospels (i.e., the Gospels of Matthew, Mark & Luke) cannot both be historically accurate (*1)...The words attributed to Jesus in the Fourth Gospel are the creation of the evangelist for the most part, and reflect the developed language of John’s Christian community.” (*2)
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The Greek term used by the anonymous author of the Fourth Gospel for “word” is logos. (*3) In doing so, the author identifies Jesus with the pagan logos of Greek philosophy, who was the divine reason implicit in the cosmos, ordering it and giving it form and meaning. (*4)
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The idea of the logos in Greek thought may be traced back at least to the 6th-century-BC philosopher, Heracleitus, who proposed that there was a logos in the cosmic process analogous to the reasoning power in man. Later, the Stoics (*5) defined the logos as an active, rational and spiritual principle that permeated all reality. (*6) The Greek-speaking Jewish philosopher, Judaeus Philo of Alexandria (15 BC - 45 CE), taught that the logos was the intermediary between God and the cosmos, being both the agent between God and the cosmos, being both the agent of creation and the agent through which the human mind can comprehend God. (*7) The writings of Philo were preserved and cherished by the Church, and provided the inspiration for a sophisticated Christian philosophical theology. He departed from Platonic thought regarding the logos (Word) and called it “the first-begotten Son of God”. (*8)
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The identification of Jesus with the logos, was further developed in the early Church as a result of attempts made by early Christian theologians and apologists to express the Christian faith in terms that would be intelligible to the Hellenistic world. Moreover, it was to impress their hearers with the view that Christianity was superior to, or heir to, all that was best in pagan philosophy. Thus, in their apologies and polemical works, the early Christian Fathers stated that Christ was the preexistent logos. (*9)
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The Greek word for ‘God’ used in the phrase “and the Word was with God,” is the definite form hotheos, meaning ‘The God’. However, in the second phrase “and the Word was God”, the Greek word used for ‘God’ is the indefinite form tontheos, which means ‘a god’. (*10) Consequently, John 1:1, should more accurately be translated, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.” Therefore, if the Word was a ‘god’ in the literal sense, it would mean that there were two Gods and not one. However, in Biblical language, the term ‘god’ is used metaphorically to indicate power.
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For example, Paul referred to the devil as “god” in 2nd Corinthians 4:4, “In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the likeness of God.” Moses is also referred to as “god” in Exodus 7:1, “And the Lord said unto Moses, ‘See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh; and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.” (*11)
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CatStevens*******
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In an ancient time there was the Word, the Word was with God and the Word was powerful
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Click here to read this verse from (An American English Bible)
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******CatStevens
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Footnotes:
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(*1)
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The Gospel of John differs so radically from the other three Gospels (the Synoptic Gospels) that its authenticity is in doubt. For example:
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The Synoptic Gospels
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(A)Jesus’ public ministry lasts one year
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(B)Jesus speaks in brief one-liners and parables
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(C)Jesus has little to say about himself
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(D) Casting out money changers from the temple is the last event of his earthly mission
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(E) Jesus defends the causes of the poor and the oppressed
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(F) Jesus is an exorcist
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(G) Jesus is crucified on 15 Nisan
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The Gospel of John
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(A) Jesus’ public ministry lasts for three years
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(B) Jesus speaks in lengthy philosophic discourses
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(C) Jesus reflects extensively on his mission and his person
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(D) Casting out money changers from the temple is the first incident of his mission
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(E) Jesus has little or nothing to say about the poor and oppressed
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(F) Jesus performs no exorcisms
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(G) Jesus is crucified on 14 Nisan, the day of the Jewish passover sacrifice
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(*2)
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The Five Gospels, p. 10.
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(*3)
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Its plural is logoi and it also means “reason” or “plan”.
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(*4)
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The concept defined by the term logos is also found in Indian, Egyptian, and Persian philosophical and theological systems. (The New Encyclopaedia Britannica, vol. 7, p. 440).
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Stoics were philosophers who followed the teachings of the thinker Zeno of Citicum (4th-3rd century BC).
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(*6)
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They called the logos providence, nature, god, and the soul of the universe.
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According to Philo and the Middle Platonists, philosophers who interpreted in religious terms the teachings of the 4th-century-BC Greek master philosopher Plato, the logos was both immanent in the world and at the same time the transcendent divine mind. (The New Encyclopaedia Britannica, vol. 7, p. 440).
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(*8)
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The New Encyclopaedia Britannica, vol. 9, p. 386.
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(*9)
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Ibid., vol. 7, p. 440.
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(*10)
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Christ in Islam, pp.40-1.
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(*11)
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This is according to the King James Version and the Authorized Version. In the Revised Standard Version, the translation of this verse is rendered, “And the Lord said to Moses, ‘See, I make you as God to Pharaoh; and Aaron your brother shall be your prophet.”
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Click here to read this verse from the Revised Standard Version
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Have a nice, peaceful and faithful day =)
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Best wishes
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Peace and love
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Yours Sincerely,
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Cat Stevens
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Note: Silly, Irrelevant, and the like, responses, posts, comments will be ignored (it depends on my mood and time if I won't ignore them), taking off the topic is losers' style, ask yourself: will you write such response if the writer wasn't a Muslim!
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Thanks for copy and pasting a book. Now lets here your thoughts on it : )

 

I saw something about the Trinity in there, amoung a million more words.
The concept of the Trinity isnt from the bible, it is from the Gaulish Celtic convert Bishop Hilary of Poitiers (AD 315-367) in his De Trinitate.

Its from the older Celtic understanding of divinity in triads.

 

John 1:1 refutes your belief in a singular God, if you want to see the triune God, go to 1 John 5:7. For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
And if you want to see the concept of the singular God refuted again, you go to the Old Testament. Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness: And I don't care if your next post is a mile long. The only way you can get around the triune God is if you deny what is clearly written. I believe the Bible and it Words of truth, you donot, and that is why you have to put mile long post here. You think if you talk long enought people will forget. Your wrong today, you will be wrong tomorrow, and you will be wrong the day after that. You will only be right, when you stop with all the double talk, and agree with the Word of God. But I believe you are so far gone trying to twist Scripture to force it to agree with your belief system, I doubt you will ever come to the knowledge of the truth. Thats why the Bible tells us, that the time will come when men will not endure sound doctrine.

 

Campbell....you are without question the most loving soul i have met. Way to win 'em for Jesus!

I agree that Cat Stevens is way to much a try hard with regards to his proofs, but he takes a vey scholarly approach citing and supporting with academic references and I respect that. The scriptures exist in a state of duality, both as a piece of literature and a spiritual artefact that has weathered enough time to exist as something bonified!

Cat...why do you come here and post these? I am curious because you've dumped so much up there I can't really even process it all (nor do I want to). To actually respond or discuss this with you, I'd need to pull out my bible, analyze the context of each passage, review the literature you're citing, etc. How do you have the time for this...I assume you run an Islamic website where you do this, or perhaps you bombard many Christian forums with these.

I was on a thread of your ages ago but didn't really want to contribute because of the work you put into it. I envision you working tirelessly, clicking and pasting, your little mouse whizzing round as you change font size, color, etc. Actually all the work you put in only makes people look bad because to respond they'd have to spend like....ages doing so.

So first, what I would suggest is start off very small. Pose a question followed by your belief. Then as posters respond answer with your ideology and use the info you have. Think on it as more of an endurance post than a sprint .

 

JesusDiedForU ​

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You are more than welcome =), BTW: not a book a part of it, I already put the URL and mentioned the writers' (authors) names.​

And I added some information too =)​

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!!! I already did! Even before reading these writers' opinions! Check post 1​

Have a nice, peaceful and faithful day =)​

Best wishes​

Peace and love ​

Yours Sincerely,​

Cat Stevens​

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Note: Silly, Irrelevant, and the like, responses, posts, comments will be ignored (it depends on my mood and time if I won't ignore them), taking off the topic is losers' style, ask yourself: will you write such response if the writer wasn't a Muslim!​

 

heron ​

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Very true​

Thank you for the information =)​

Have a nice day =)​

Best wishes​

Peace and love ​

Yours Sincerely,​

Cat Stevens​

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Note: Silly, Irrelevant, and the like, responses, posts, comments will be ignored (it depends on my mood and time if I won't ignore them), taking off the topic is losers' style, ask yourself: will you write such response if the writer wasn't a Muslim!​

 

campbell34 ​

Hey Campbell, nice to see you again man =), how are you doing, I hope you're fine brother =)​

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Not just my belief, Jesus' belief as well, Torah & all the former prophets (pbut)​

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1 John 5:7è isn't a verse from the gospel or Torah, nor Jesus (pbuh) stated it.​

***What is the reality of [1 John 5:7]?

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BTW: Maybe you forgot me! I already comment on this verse which you quoted it in my thread [Is God 1 or 3?]!!! Check my response.​

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Oh man! I already commented on this too in [Is God 1 or 3?] and gave its explanation which doesn't point to a triune God at all!​

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Give me a clear verse form the Torah or the 4 Gospels!​

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!!!!!!!!!! Oh man! I can't believe this! ​

hahaha​

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!!!!!!!!!!​

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I asked you before to prove to me that! And asked you too to pray for me! You should give me proofs that God is triune.​

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Twist! Ok, I miss Erasmus ​

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I already did, million thanks to Allah =)​

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Very true​

Have a nice, peaceful and faithful day =)​

Best wishes​

Peace and love ​

Yours Sincerely,​

Cat Stevens​

Note: Silly, Irrelevant, and the like, responses, posts, comments will be ignored (it depends on my mood and time if I won't ignore them), taking off the topic is losers' style, ask yourself: will you write such response if the writer wasn't a Muslim!​

 

MeMilesAway
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Thanks ^^
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!!!!!!!!!!!! I just can't believe this!
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Because I am in hipforums.com, where I can write and post whatever I want as long as I am respecting the guidelines here, thank you hipforums, not only because that, Click here
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Well! Do it, Jesus deserves it man!
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Thanks to Allah, to know how, it is love my dear, plus. Read This
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Well, let me tell you something, not only you, but to all members who are reading this post, there are chickens, yeah chickens, myself I don't know who are they, since I know the internet many people tried their best to get information about who really I am! And to stop me, Well, to avoid that, one of my best Allah's creatures save the posts and responses to my threads, I check them, and write my responses by using Microsoft word, I didn't send my responses from my own computer, well, somebody is trying to bombard his computer!!!!!!!!!!!!! He received threatened messages, which make him thinks that those people are from the hipforums, however, Allah knows best who are they, others are trying other style, who thinks that I will stop writing because I get bad, abusive, insulting comments, words, posts etc, he is totally wrong, and I advise him to don't waste his time.
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Have a nice, peaceful and faithful day =)
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Best wishes
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Peace and love ​

Yours Sincerely,​

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Cat Stevens
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Note: Silly, Irrelevant, and the like, responses, posts, comments will be ignored (it depends on my mood and time if I won't ignore them), taking off the topic is losers' style, ask yourself: will you write such response if the writer wasn't a Muslim!
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Cat, why the hell would you make up things that I said? you make it seem like I gave a damn about your point and you so kindly answered all my questions as if i were interviewing you.

Nothing that you "quoted" in post #13 was actually said.

Besides, i am pagan, would never defend the biblical god like you had me doing and would not sound so retarded in the defense even if i did.

Take your non-triune moon god and kiss my ass.

Edit: Now i see that you put cambells words with my name. Please remedy that, its very uncool.

 

Cat that was some serious reading you just put me through! I definitely respect what you have to say and, like I said before, the scholarship you put into your posts. As far as my ability to get into it with you, I am just not in possession of the time. That however does not belittle my love for Jesus...I do not really see hipforums as the mission field and I for sure don't think anything I procure is going to put you on your knees.

My question about 'various Christian forums'--which went unanswered--was not in anyway something you should have taken offense to. It is however, my belief that your posts are overtly confrontational from the get-go, and while you character is explicitly congenial, there is a cold message indirectly sent--that your intent is to pull down another religion. Perhaps I am mistaken.

Regardless...I am very happy in my faith as I know you are in yours. And we should be thankful as there are a multitude with out one.

 

DUDE Heron didnt even say that!!! You made it up.

 

Random question... is Jesus the only way to eternal life?

 

heron
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hahahahah
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hahahahahahahahaha
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forgive me man, I meant campbell34, hahaha, oh man, isn't the first time, I really should be very very careful next time, I really wrote these responses yesterday in a hurry, if you read the first lines of post 13 you'll find:
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campbell34
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Hey Campbell, nice to see you again man =), how are you doing, I hope you're fine brother =)
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I.e. the post was written to Campbell34, but I wrote your name instead of campbell34 I will edit =)
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Check it
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^^ mistake dude
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I know this
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Moon God, hmmm, I have to write a thread about it someday
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Wasn't done on purpose
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Peace and love
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Yours Sincerely,
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Cat Stevens
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Note: Silly, Irrelevant, and the like, responses, posts, comments will be ignored (it depends on my mood and time if I won't ignore them), taking off the topic is losers' style, ask yourself: will you write such response if the writer wasn't a Muslim!
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MeMilesAway

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Thanks.
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I don't know what you busy yourself with, I think if someone want to know the truth of a religion, then this is the most important thing, because it should be done before death's coming according to some religions, try to reconcile between the both, God should always be the first. However, It is up to you, my deepest sincere best wishes.
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!! Which question exactly?
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I already gave you 2 links to know what my intent is.
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Yeah, SO MUCH ^^, Thanks to Allah
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Peace and love
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Yours Sincerely,
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Cat Stevens
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Note: Silly, Irrelevant, and the like, responses, posts, comments will be ignored (it depends on my mood and time if I won't ignore them), taking off the topic is losers' style, ask yourself: will you write such response if the writer wasn't a Muslim!
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