What do you think of vicarious redemption? Moral or not?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNtBkOXItqw"]Christ is Back in Christmas! - YouTube

Regards
DL

 

I think it neither moral nor immoral. It is not possible to substitute for your own estate as you cannot be other than you are. It is certainly possible to recognize yourself as you are.

 

Yea... um, except if Jesus IS God, therefore the sacrifice is a part of God's self?


I don't know... I watched the video AND looked it up and read some stuff and all I can say is I don't know... It seems non-moral but if God knew every single person who ever lived would live in an eternal hell forever unless one sacrifice was made (who btw, according to the whole story-Christianity, also ended up with eternal life with God)... and if that would be the only option-one person (who is a part of the God-self and would also live eternally in love/God...), or everybody for eternity?..... then wouldn't that seem the only option?
I'm not saying if any of this is or isn't true...just going based on what Christianity speaks of...
It's a good example and something to think of- the video, the Elf, the presents--- but it's not the same thing. It's not killing someone so people can receive Christmas presents... it's a bit more complicated than that. But at the same time, I don't know... for example, I don't know why animal sacrifices were wanted/needed before... lambs and such...doesn't make a lot of sense and/or seem nice to me....

 

It is moral but not part of my morals. If you think it is immoral I'm wondering: is everything that does not fit your own morals something immoral then?

 

Oh... I will say, and add, that if someone went around saying "Well, I believe Jesus died for my sins so I'm just gonna go around treating people like shit.. kill anyone who gets in my way... just do whatever the hell I want...whatever, whatever, blah blah"... then, yea, that's immoral. But I don't think that is how most people are. If you try to do right because it's the right thing but know nobody is perfect...then that's a different story. Eh, whatever.

 

Dope

Christians do think it possible.

From that POV, do you think it moral or not.

Or do you care enough for your fellow man to correct his poor thinking?

If you have what it takes.

Regards
DL

 

"It's not killing someone so people can receive Christmas presents... "

It is exactly that. Take God having Jesus murdered for us out of the Christian theology and what is left?

Nothing.

Regards
DL

 

Yes.

So you would have no problem telling your child to let some other child suffer his punishment in school. Right?

You would not see anything immoral in that. Right?

You would promote scapegoating. Right?

Regards
DL

 

Nothing theological perhaps But that is not all what Christmas seems to be about.

 

No, I'm saying morals seem not absolute in my book. They differ. If they are not mine they are not by default immoral. And I was simply asking if you thought otherwise.

 

Correct. My comment did not speak to Christmas. It spoke of Christianity and their view of justice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWAUhadJzTk"]Christian Justice - YouTube

Regards
DL

 

Christianity is neither only about theology

 

By christians you mean some or do you mean you believe?

From that point of view meaning belief my answer is the same. Beliefs do not contend with the truth. They are not needed for truth, (the moral thing,) to be what it is. Beliefs only contend with other beliefs. We are morally endowed in creation our protections extending naturally to those we call our own. The moral thing is self assuring, love your neighbor as yourself.

Take it or leave it as you are morally able.

 

That is likely why they ignore the immorality of their theology.

Regards
DL

 

"Beliefs do not contend with the truth."

True when speaking of religious belief. They have nothing to do with truth.

That says that believers are living lives of lies or delusions and I agree.

Quite a shame really.

Regards
DL

 

It is a mind we share. If we find it shameful it means that we hadn't properly cared for it.

 

Correct. Literalist Christains have not.

Regards
DL

 

Further on belief.

Belief is necessary for perception or the approach to knowing. Perception is not knowledge but can lead to it. The measure of belief required to approach knowledge is that there is something to find or the faith of a mustard seed, a simple willingness, sensing just reward, to set your mind to the task.

Conviction or faith without doubt is a different thing all together and can cause you to bear witness to preposterous things, i. e., make a mountain throw itself into the sea. Those so convicted are convicted by their conviction.

 

That is why I asked if it was your belief because you have claimed the shame.

 

We cannot liberate ourselves from our shameful perceptions on the backs of "their" guilt. Let he who is blameless cast the first stone for justice.