What’s needed to stop an American dictatorship?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Balbus, Jun 11, 2020.

  1. Tishomingo

    Tishomingo Members

    Well what if the weather is rotten, and it's several miles to the polling place, and you're arthritic or otherwise physically unable to walk far?
     
  2. Tishomingo

    Tishomingo Members

    I think dictatorship is just around the corner. The whole thrust of what Trump has been doing lately--questioning the legitimacy of the elections, slowing down the mail service to make mail-in ballots more difficult, sending his goon squads to Democrat cities--is building toward that result. What are we prepared to do about it, if his armed and dangerous NRA fans back him up with armed force?
     
    scratcho likes this.
  3. tikoo

    tikoo Senior Member

    Who ?
    You think iffily . Philosophically , if is weak .
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2020
  4. Idlewild

    Idlewild Members

    All it would take is cheating in the elections for America to get a dictator, just like what happened in Russia with Putin.

    We've been able to withstand four years of Trump, but just barely. The foundation of our country won't last another four. People need to vote, even if it's a bit risky. Wear face protection, and not just a cloth mask. Get a plastic shield or make one. I made one that attaches to a standard cloth face mask so I'm protected when I have to deal with people. Maybe I should post the design online.
     
    unfocusedanakin and granite45 like this.
  5. Piney

    Piney Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    Legitimate points all.

    Polling places are more walkable in urban areas. Remembering political clubs offering rides to voters on election day.

    Some people may not be so committed to voting having other priorities in their lives.
    They might not attach the high drama to voting as partisans do.
     
  6. Tishomingo

    Tishomingo Members

  7. newo

    newo Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    Why is Trump concerned that vote by mail could result in voter fraud? I would think he'd see it as an opportunity. Unless of course he knows that it discourages voter fraud, which is the last thing he wants discouraged.
     
  8. Tishomingo

    Tishomingo Members

    He sees it as an opportunity to discredit the results, if he loses!
     
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  9. newo

    newo Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    Which is why he must lose by a landslinde. SUPPORT THE LANDSLIDE!!
     
    Tishomingo likes this.
  10. unfocusedanakin

    unfocusedanakin The Archaic Revival Lifetime Supporter

    All you have to do is look at 2016. Notice how Trump and his voters were not satisfied with the results even though he won? In the weeks prior he was claiming it was all rigged because he believed he would not win. Then once he had the story became people had tried to cheat him but since the "real" America is so strong they were not successful.

    This inability to accept any disagreements in society and strong team identity are textbook fascism. It's very sad what has become of the Republicans.

    We have pushed them to the edge in 2020. They are angry that they have not gotten the results the wanted. Where is the wall? Is it still ok to be gay? What happens if you wear a "all live matter" shirt in a business? They will probably ask you to leave while allowing the BLM person to stay. There are numerous examples of people openly expressing right wing views being told their business is not welcome. The free market and majority support the Democratic party.

    They elected Trump because they thought he would sanction Civil War. They truly thought they would get the fun of ending the Democratic party with violence. Obama and Hillary will be hung on live TV and the socialists will be hunted.

    None of that has happened so they are willing to give up the last shred of America to make it happen. Because Trump can not do it their only answer is the core of America is corrupt and no longer free. They see themselves as bringing freedom back. He is beyond a god to them.

    Our grandfathers are rolling over in their graves. Why did they die in Europe for us if we are going to do this?
     
    scratcho and Balbus like this.
  11. Piney

    Piney Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    Hello Tish:

    My Grandfather had a city government job working for Mayor Frank Hague in Jersey City, NJ. Will spare the description as Frank Hague has a great Wilkpedia page.
    For us, political shenanigans were a "lived in" experience.
    By Shenenigans we mean dead people voting and yes, voter suppression. For us suppression was the disappearance of a box full of ballots. Nowadays just asking for ID is considered suppression.

    Voter fraud and suppression go together; it is no sense denying one and howling about another.
    These Jersey City shennanigans were chronicled in the book: Mysteries of my Father : by: Thomas Fleming, a Jersey City native.

    In those days, Mayor Hague was able to swing the entire state of New Jersey into the Democrat collum and help elect President Roosevelt.
    The grateful Roosevelt visited Jersey City, together they inaugrated Margret Hague Hospital, named after The Mayor's mother.

    Both Dems and Repugs both engage in shenanigans.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
  12. stopping immigration and stopping the raping of my land through immigration and relocation.

    getting rid of the United Nations.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
  13. Rehab44

    Rehab44 Members

    Ahhh, the irony... the indigenous tribes of North America beat you too it,
     
  14. BeatrixPothead

    BeatrixPothead Members

    "could...put that very system in danger..."

    That's a very weak alarm bell for a non-emergency. All human institutions and systems have the potential to be put in danger of being subverted. It's the nature of human activity and organization.

    It isn't the force of gravity, the nature of energy, or the fact of an expanding universe. Systems contrived by humans are ephemeral. They all come and go. They serve their purpose for a time and are then abandoned.

    Now if what you want is a claim that you have a reich that will last a thousand years, and that seems to be what you want, you actually will need a dictator to create such an illusion.

    Democratic institutions, whether administrative, parliamentary, or bi-cameral republican ones, are fragile things, and they will always be so. So are dictatorships by the way. The average reign of an emperor in ancient Rome was about 3 years, and civil wars were frequent. It's the nature of human institutions and systems, and so it will always be.

    Trump is a weak president. He hasn't groomed a successor. He's elderly, obese, and has the attention span of a two-year-old. The Republican party isn't all that old, having fielded its first candidate for the top office in 1856. It probably won't even be around 50 or 100 years from now, and Tump will be long dead by then, tossed onto history's scrap heap of petty would-be tyrants who have come and gone.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
    Joshua Van, Tishomingo and scratcho like this.
  15. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Pothead

    Not sure where you are going with this?

    Are you saying you’d be happy living in a dictatorship since they are bound to collapse anyway – I’d say that a lot of bad things have the potential of happening under an authoritarian rule and that I’d prefer to stop the dictatorship from happening in the first placer?

    To quote Martin Niemöller

    First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a socialist.

    Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a trade unionist.

    Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Jew.

    Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
     
  16. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Pothead

    The Roman empire lasted a long time - are you counted to the fall of the western empire or also including the eastern? Some emperorships were very short others not - Augustus’ 41 years I think is the longest but many did ten to twenty years but the average is pulled down by others who only lasted months.

    As to civil war that was due to a system that that could have been changed in fact the republic could have been saved with the proper reform The Gracchus had some interesting ideas.

    And also the thing is that a lot of political thought has gone on since the Roman empire fell (west and east).

    What i'm saying is that systems can be changed to correct problems if there is the political will to do so, apathy doesn't help
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
  17. soulcompromise

    soulcompromise Member HipForums Supporter

    addressing someone as pothead is just funny. :D

    so I think we need to mobilize here in America. Not as a partisan thing though... I really dislike that. It's like, what is our destiny? Where are we going with all this?

    What do we envision?

    I want a country that is fantastic! We have so much to offer to other struggling countries. We can have a mission in life. Our government can position itself at the front of the queue for environmental reform, humanitarian aid, and military disarmament. World peace is attainable. We can address the needs of so many just by voting! Well... and sacrifice. Necessary sacrifice I would argue. :)

    It's here. We've got to make the change... :sunglasses:
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
  18. Idlewild

    Idlewild Members

    "Speaking out" doesn't really make a difference. The only thing that seems to work is violence.

    Imagine if all the BLM protests had been peaceful... nobody arrested, no property damage, nobody hurt... Nothing would have come from it because the only victims during peaceful protests are protesters. But because they have not been entirely peaceful (for whatever reason... could be Russian antagonists), policies and even laws are changing.
     
  19. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Idlewild

    That is not a good lessen to take from all this, as it has a tendancy to escalate but i understand your point - in the UK we had the poll tax riots that ended Thatcher and the tax then we had the largest peaceful marches in UK history to stop the Iraq war and those were completely ignoered, people in power should not give those types of lessons
     
  20. scratcho

    scratcho Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    Temporarily getting rid of republicans. I say temporarily because their types have been around as long as humans have and they will never be eliminated completely. IMO, it's the major flaw in human nature that those who relentlessly seek power over other humans, have done/will do so by any means they deem necessary, up to and including each and every horrendous historical event recognized/unrecognized and lessor events such as lying, cheating, denigration of fellow humans. Passing laws that favor themselves ( aforementioned types) by monetary/favoritism could be said to be the most "civilized " methods of gaining power/control over others as has constantly occurred/is occurring now, in the past and will continue to occur as long as the majority of humanity continue to allow such. Unfortunately, humans, particularly in so-called first world countries, are distracted and driven by the physical, temporary "gains" of myriad shiny objects that "those who control" realize are irresistible. Those types who gain and maintain power and control and could essentially change the course of human history with equity, empathy and loving care for all sentient beings as a priority---will NEVER do so because-----why would they? Would not be for THEIR benefit. Some will torture you, some will kill you, some will incarcerate you, some will buy those that control you and some will bullshit you 'till their dying days. Or yours.

    Just remember--THE AMERICAN DREAM can be yours. Just keep working, saving and you too can be rich. And remember ---BUY MORE--BUY MORE NOW.
     

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