War on Terror-why arn't we winning ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy9tNyp03M0"]Mehdi Hasan | Islam Is A Peaceful Religion | Oxford Union - YouTube

 

I was impressed by the force of his delivery & his obvious belief in his message but there areas he did not fully address like Sharia law and some Islamic cultures treatment of Women that does effect the lives of millions & are not some insignificant minority. I do not agree that Islam is anymore a warlike religion than Christianity is but I'd say that it has major human rights issues that do not seem to be significantly challenged from within Islam. Nor did he address the sectarian violence that continues between Sunni's & Shias

One wonders too what would have been Mehdi Hasans fate had he delivered this speach in parts of Afgahistan,Pakistan or in some of the Gulf States ect.

 

This is what leaves a nasty taste in my mouth. Muslims can never win.

 

I'm not pushing an agenda that they can't or shouldnt win,why would I? My quote you posted covered a more than 10 year time span during which a lot more happened than I listed. Theres three sides to this subject. We've done the 'Isnt the US & the West so oppressive to the Middle East' in the earlier part of the thread . Then there was the 'freedom fighter vs terrorist debate'. Now we're looking at the Islamic cultural background part of which Bin & co were drawn from & thats complex.

You're the guy who was saying it ain't all our (or USA's) fault,cos it was all looking more than a bit one sided then-the West could never win. Now its the Muslims turn,go suck a Polo mint.

 

Christians used to be the same way with women. It says in the Bible in fact "It is a shame for a women to speak in church"

 

Good point. What I think we may have done in the 'War on Terror',maybe in all or most wars on terror, is promoted in our enemies a Groupthink mentality. When animals are confronted by a predator on option is the Herd mentality-bunch up together so that individuals are more difficult to single out as targets.

Maybe in having your people or your culture attacked,exploited,neglected whatever the aggresors motive,causes Groupthink to be triggered. The group circles the wagons, becomes defensive & exclusive forming its own identity-even adding to it religious values as means of increasing its validity among its members.

Increasingly under attack,isolated, the Group comes to believe that its actions ,that we call attrocities,are valid in their curcumstances which only fuels their oppositions position that they are evil & that counter-action is validated. So the spiral continues.

To get back to your point,the above,I hope, may explain why Islam has become more fundermentalist in its interpretations,for example in its attitudes to women in parts of the middle east. That in taking on our moderate values they risk becoming like their oppresors.

 

I was commenting on this part: 'I,for one, was frustrated at the lack of outcry against the perpetrators by 'our' Muslims. The response I heard was that it is considered un-Islamic for a Muslim to critisize another. After the murder of Lee Rigby,recently, there was a unified condemnation of the Terrorist acts by National British Mosques & Muslim organisations but it looked like staged PR to me.'

My response would be: Why does the 'Muslim community', especially 'our Muslims', need to come out and decry every time that another Muslim does something ?
I've never heard this before: 'it is considered un-Islamic for a Muslim to criticise another'.
I don't know where you got that impression from.
When a 'Muslim community leader' or a spokes-person from X, Y or Z 'Islamic organisation' is asked for a comment, It might look a little staged - because it is.
The media ask for a statement, and a well written statement is usually made. It might even be PR.
But that's no different than something like this:

They all usually use the same language...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K9SNp5MwPw"]Archbishop's statement on the killing of Drummer Lee Rigby - YouTube

I don't think the above has anything to do with this:

In the case of OBL, it is complex because he came from a wealthy and powerful family, and to the best of my knowledge most have disowned him and/or spoken against what he has done.
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=126697&page=1#.Ud1N-DtvOXs

So, what you are saying is that a majority of Muslims are starting to think in the same way as OBL ?

 

My hope that Muslims would condemn terrorist attacks is because,as you well know,there have been anti Islam 'reactions' from certain groups in the UK in the past. Also its important that the terrorists know that their actions are not inspiring sympathy.

Post 9/11 & a couple of times since, I have heard Muslims interviewed by the media state that it is written in the Koran that Muslims should not speak against one another. The condemnation we saw after Lee Rigsbys murder was from our national politicians & the Leadership of the Mosques & Muslim associations nationally rather than,as far as I know, from individuals.

I was not accusing the majority of Muslims for starting to think like BL. The post was referring to firstly terrorist groups,it is an on-going effort to try to understand the terrorist mindset-why they act as they do in ways beyond what we consider rational?
In the last paragraph I try to broaden this point out to speculate that ,fearing western influences,a similar Groupthink concept may apply to Islamic communities in the Middle East causing them to react by taking a more fundermentalist line.

Here we are at page 70 of this thread & after all my posts, throughout which Ive taken pains not to be biased nor unresonable toward any grouping under discussion (had I done so I'd have been banned) yet you speculate that I might be accusing all Muslims of being BL extremists or that they may share his beliefs. I take offence at this.