War isn't a part of human nature.

Okay, I guesse I'll have to say this again.

Unless we can survive for 8 Billion years, we will destroy ourselves ( or at the very least this planet ).

War is a part of our being, that being anger, most people are selfish, greedy and insecure, we need distraction from the many problems that plague us.

War is necessary.

 

My friend is in the military and I've talked to people who came back. It's not a natural or gratifying experience. My friend is in the hardest and roughest battalion in Fort Benning, maybe the hardest army base to train at. He's been through the experience, and it is dehumanizing, not natural.

No I don't believe the masses aren't educated. Yes they are ignorant. Do educated, free thinking humans allow themselves to be lead around by the nose, down to how they dress, what they eat, how they think, and what they believe? But ignorance is just a state of mind, partially self imposed even. It is not a genetic or permanent existence.

And in response to your other comment, just because something has happened again and again in the past, does not mean it MUST happen in the future. It is not inevitable. If it were, and learning from the mistakes of the past was an futile endeavor, studying history would be a waste of time.

It isn't, because we CAN learn otherwise and we CAN change.

You are the one putting these restrictions on our species that do not exist. I sincerely hope one day you can see that a viewpoint like yours is a considerable roadblock to the very real and obtainable reality of a planet wide Utopian society.

Utopia starts in all of us, and when you begin to recognize and then believe that, unlimited power over yourself will be yours. You are putting your own walls and ceilings up for us all.

 

I sincerely hope so. I think my generation did a lot to allow this new state of affairs. We stopped talking about the horrors of war. Our children and our children's children grew up not understanding those horrors. So that when someone in power sought to use the little man to gain their own ends our children responded to marketed messages for patriotism.

 

Where was the hip voice of the sixties when Bush sought his war? Some of us spoke out, but not enough. But I will admit I was even careful of what I said and who I said it to after 09/11. I saw the handwriting on the wall. But the fever pitch patriotic call for war was so pervasive. I was part of the problem. Instead of flying flags on every porch we should have sat down with our children and told them about war.

I know I went out to lunch several times with a friend of mine who holds similar political beliefs and we would stop our discussion when the waitress would come around, and keep our voices down so the next booths wouldn't hear our discussion. We have nothing to fear from extremists and communists that we haven't already experienced from our own administration.

 

Funny isn't it that animals don't resort to war.

 

You got to be joking. Go back to your Dungeons and Dragons game.

 

Perhaps you'd like to outline how war has been gratifying to you. Does gratifying equal boner?

 

gardener, I find myself agreeing with you. We can never turn out backs on the problem, we must keep it alive and in plain sight. I believe that war is an ugly, dehumanizing concept, but that we need to study it and never let our awareness of it die.

I think a man or woman is a product of the choices he or she makes, and oftentimes the choices that are most painful, and difficulty are the ones worth taking. The selfless choices, often existing in a path going the opposite direction of immediate gratification. The easy road is not only less fulfilling but ultimately dangerous.

We must keep our eyes and our minds sharp and never turn our back on the undesirable elements of humanity. At the same time, I believe we need to use compassion and love as a guiding energy behind everything we do.

I think the ingredients for a life sustaining society are already out there in the resources around us and the ones in our brains, but the problem lies in the organization and distribution of these physical and psychological resources.

 

that has nothing to do with it
it is still part of our nature

nature: the particular combination of qualities belonging to a person, animal, thing, or class by birth, origin, or constitution; native or inherent character


everything we do is part of our nature
it is a quality of ours
we have war - quality of ours
we don't have to have war - (disputable) quality of ours

 

It's not part of animal nature, it's part of greed. No other animal degrades itself to the point of war.

 

Agreed! It's a product of human will, not instinct. It's an option, not a necessity though.

 

Interesting topic, on whether war is or isn't part of human nature.

From a Buddhist viewpoint, preparing for war and fighting a war actually kills our human nature and allows the animal nature to take over.

 

do you people not read history books? even before there were nations, hunter gatherers raided other clans with extreme violence to take what the other clan had. I mean yes there was a time before GPS guided weapons, but on a philisophical level, not much different than a war for oil.

 

other animals don't have nearly as many conflicts as us in general

you barely see animals defending each other or getting in each other's fights, except for direct kin, someitmes not even that

 

this is a topic of science, not religion
and from a scientifc point of view, humans are animals.

 

I'm glad you made that point but I think there is a huge difference. Those people were all struggling to obtain the most base needs. Our civilization affords us the ability to make and distribute more than enough food to go around for everyone.

Those pre civ wars were more life or death affairs (food shortages low, raid or risk death) while in our current civilization we have the ability to feed the world, as well as the social and spiritual innovation of morals to guide us. We have the option of alternatives and I don't think they did. There weren't the resources to go around (think of the energy expended and lives lost just to bring down larger animals like mammoths and provide for a group vs. farming and raising livestock) for self actualization to occur at the levels it does in contemporary society.

War is more forgivable in an environment like that, but not nearly as much ijn this day where the industrial age and subsequent ages of innovation and progress have made war obsolete. There is no longer a need for us to struggle and fight, we are choosing to go to war. I believe it is in our power to choose peace.

 

you think too much. the fact you find war morally reprehensiple(sp?) in no way means you are indicative of the nature of man. maybe you are the future of man, and we are trying to evolve away from the nature we have exibited thus far. you know how evolution works right? survival of the fittest. you gots a long hard albeit nonviolent fight ahead of you my friend, and I wish you luck. however, your personal feelings do not negate all of human history, and history tells us mankind bands together and attacks.

 

Uhmm... and do you have enough faith in your science with regards to humans as being animals?

If you believe that humans are animals, do you have faith that you are an animal? Very well.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm human, not an animal.

P.S. I don't need scientific proof that I'm human, but it seems you have faith that you are an animal. No?

 

so vegans can eat you with a clear conscience?

 

That is a topic of religion not of ehem... science. ; ) wink, wink... lol