War isn't a part of human nature.

Discussion in 'Protest' started by Share the Warmth, Apr 26, 2007.

  1. If it were, the phrase "war is hell" would not be true, because we would live for combat and feel at home in a war setting. The truth is that war is an instrument of small minded but very powerful people who use it to obtain even more power for themselves. These are people who were exposed to power and become addicted to it before they had a chance to develop their imaginations, expand their minds, and become aware of the higher needs of humankind.

    They are such sad and empty people that they think that by obtaining more and more of the same thing (power), they will feel fulfilled. By the end of their lifespan, they die unhappy and so do the thousands of unnamed individuals who died fighting for the personal struggles of the powerful. This is true in war settings but also the corporate settings, where the selfish and greedy struggle to accept themselves for their power while they're impoverished workers struggle not only psychologically but physically. Power is an addiction, but unlike the heroin addict who suffers his or herself, the person caught in it's throes takes many lives with them.

    I believe that human beings do not live for war, they live to love and to aid one another to appreciate the joys of love. Nothing feels better than to love and to feel loved. In comparison war is a soul numbing and desensitizing experience that only leaves a wake of physical and psychological destruction in it's wake.

    Was war once a part of human nature? I say no: at the point when we developed imaginations capable of costructing peaceful alternatives, war became obsolete. I'd imagine that this moment came very early in the evolution of the homo sapien.

    We've been experiencing ignorant bloodshed for thousands and thousands of years but the excuses end here. With the advent of the internet, relatively high literacy rates (and we still need to work on that globally) and readily available information, there is no reason for this tremendously costly and immature game to continue.

    Spread the word while we're still breathing.
  2. Zoomie

    Zoomie My mom is dead, ok?

    I've read many of your posts and find you to be a very mature, intelligent, warm, loving human being. But you're wrong on this one. The majority of the human race is aggressive, greedy, lazy and abusive. War has always been. Until we all learn tolive together and love each other war will always be. You cannot change the nature of humankind.
  3. Being aggressive and liking to wrestle and fight is far removed from actually killing with a gun in a raw setting though. I have a friend going through basic training and it really is several months of hardcore brainwashing, pain and humiliation. An untrained human, without exposure to a basic training like situation would not be able to function in a warzone. That is part of the reason why I propose it is an unnatural activity.

    I think it's also significant that the ones who start wars and plan them are in most cases not on the battlefields themselves. The real minds behind the wars do not often participate in them. This also makes it difficult for one to honestly make the equation war = human nature. Is it human nature for one to want to believe in a higher principle (to fill a void brought on by a misguided and materialistic society?), and to be manipulated on the way to obtaining it? Yes I think it happens all the time. I think that's pretty much the basis of how the army recruits 99% of it's members. Poor (as in not wealthy) uneducated people who don't have a very developed understanding of the world and are starving for spirituality believe the lies fed to them, that being a soldier will give them an identity and fill that void (and it does to a small degree, but it will never present them with the nirvana that becoming a self actualized person living for his community will). I think that's what happens all the time, and these young men and women are manipulated into getting involved in something they don't REALLY understand coming in.

    My friend is going through hell right now, the worst experience of his life he says, and it's not the exercise, but the mindset of the people around him. It really is a brainwashing factory, meant to break down the individual and destroy deeper thoughts and numb the soul. This is NOT a natural condition for a human being, and that is being shown by all the psychologically VERY damaged people who come home from war.

    I've gone on such a tangent but here is my main point: since civilization, society has consisted of an elite few, more enlightened than the majority, using their knowledge to control the many. War has existed only through such manipulation. Now with the age of free knowledge upon us in a few years (dirt cheap computers and internet will soon be a reality) information can be shared in a way like never before, and society is about to get turned on it's head. The ignorant do not have to stay ignorant. Sure, some people are much slower than others and might never understand (but they must still be valued and cherished and we must never stop attempting to help them fulfill their needs and to acquire knowledge about the world around them). The lower class of each generation has more options open to them with each passing generation, and the myth of war being unnecessary is growing old and weak. It will one day be exposed for the lie that it really is. We don't need to fight over the earth's resources. We can share them. There is honestly more than enough to go around for EVERYONE, ESPECIALLY if more adopt a vegetarian lifestyle.

    Sorry, this is losing it's organization because I'm very hungry, but my main points.

    1. War isn't necessary, it is just convenient and has become a tradition.
    2. The most valuable commodity is the ability to connect with others, to love and be loved. Money cannot buy this, nor can political power. Only thought and effort and a lifestyle change can obtain this precious (but obtainable for anyone) gift.
    3. The ignorant do not have to remain so.
    4.. The internet is a HUGE step in the direction of a Utopian society. Free knowledge is a step towards meeting the basic needs of everyone. When those needs are met, a significant portion of the population can move up towards self actualization. The more self actualized people in existence, the more sane and life sustaining our culture (world culture; nationalism itself is a limited political concept to me) will become.

    That's what I believe anyway. Gotta eat.

    PS Thank you for the kind words Zoomie. I recall reading some of your posts before and agreeing with you. Don't know if I responded or not though.
  4. earthmother

    earthmother senior weirdo

    If you took a bunch of new born babys at random and put them in an environment where there was no right and wrong (good - evil) taught to them at all, and they were simply allowed to behave as naturally as possible, what do you think would happen? I imagine there would be alot of fighting and yelling and probably some killing. It is in human nature to be selfish and to do whatever it takes to get what they want... It is in human intellect to find more peaceable and civilized solutions. The less intelligent/less literate don't realize there are alternatives or don't know how to find them, or don't know how to vocalize their ideas efficiently, and so they need HELP from those who do. They are perfect fodder for someone with less than honorable ideas. Extremely intelligent people seem to be either very dedicated to doing the right things on their own and hate being told what to do, or they become extremely evil and want to be manipulative and controlling. It seems that many people of higher intellect do not WISH to be all powerful or have control over the masses. And so the positions of authority become full of corrupt people who use their intelligence and evil against the rest. The less intelligent/less eduated are easier to control. And because people who are evil, powerful, and controlling have alot of FORCE, they don't need to be some of the brightest kids on the block, because they have so much force behind them. And so they end up taking charge of everything and running things badly. It will probably be found to be some type of personality disorder eventually...
  5. Duck

    Duck quack. Lifetime Supporter

    if war wasn't a part of human nature
    who the hell introduced it to us??
  6. Zoomie

    Zoomie My mom is dead, ok?

    earthmother is wise as always. It is human nature to fight and take to survive. It is human intellect to seek peaceful resolution to conflict.

    And it is historical fact that few people actually use that intellect to it's potential.
  7. Breakxeggs

    Breakxeggs Member


    Hate to burst your bubble but its human nature to be better then everyone around them. If you can get them all to break away from material items, then I believe you might have a slim chance, but it will NEVER happen. Peace is a dream not a reality.
  8. I agree with the OP.
    And i dont believe we are inherently selfish
    Hmm thats all ive got to say really
  9. dd3stp233

    dd3stp233 -=--=--=-

    There is strong evidence that violence and aggression is at least partially determined by genetics. Some people have these genes and some don't. Then all the complex environmental factors come into play for an individual to determine if the person acts on the impulse of the genes.
  10. Sylvian

    Sylvian Member

    I agree that most people would shit their pants if thrown into a warzone, but I do not agree on the belief that war and fightig is not part of the human nature. We humans are, as stated previously, agressive and egosentric pricks. We have, since the start of things, been squabbeilng over the best hunting grounds, fishing spots et cetera ad nauseum. To honestly believe that mankind is a peaceful race is a tad naïve, I'm afraid. But, my point is this; we could learn to coexist peacfully. Provided we found either an external enemy (Independence Day anyone? Hehe...) or a common goal for all humanity (allthough that is too far fetched a dream for even the most far gone crack addict to believe in) to strive towards unless some insanely drastic change hits societies around the globe...

    On a biological note; we humans actually have a sentre in the brain which has but one purpose, to enable us to feel disgust. Now isn't that a nice argument for those who mean we are inherantly peaceful.

    I appologize for my poor choice of words and poorly thought out ideas here, I am famished and far from home. :D
  11. gardener

    gardener Realistic Humanist

    Basic animals only fight to the death for their own advantage. But man he promises and lies to those subordinate that he'll share....how many thousands of years will it take before we wake up and realize that only the alphas will actually win. The rest of us sacrifice our children and our futures. He sacrifices nothing, he changes his allegiance on the whim of providence. And leaves us to bury our dead.
  12. Breakxeggs

    Breakxeggs Member

    For once you've written something some what intelligent... Accept that no person is greater than any other person but we all try to be better then the next. As long as people have feelings they will try to be better. I know you've seen people that you didn't like and, and I'm sure you've put them down before, I know you've attempted to put me down several times. That right there is making yourself better then someone else... its a little tiny war one without violence.
  13. Zoomie

    Zoomie My mom is dead, ok?

    Damn right. You'll shit your pants. Then you'll think about your mother/father/wife/girlfriend/children crying over your body when they send you home in a metal box, and then you'll kill anything that moves to keep the ones you love from that pain. And that's BEFORE you think about your own life.

    We've perfected war, we humans. We don't need to fight it face to face, but the alternative is even more horrifying. Read the death rolls. Guns were made for killing, Humans were made to use them.
  14. Sylvian

    Sylvian Member

    I'd not shit my pants in a war, that much I know. Granted, a lot of people will take this as macho bull, but if you take a look at me you will se that macho is not the word most commonly used to describe me. But that is besides the point, the point is: We are horrible cunts and should be massacered down to a minimum before we spread across the galaxies as some kind of cancer...
  15. L.A.Matthews

    L.A.Matthews Senior Member

    War is not a catalyst of aggression; aggression is a catalyst of war.

    In my opinion, war is as natural as any other human tradition. Also, the benefit of war, like famines and diseases, is that it keeps the population of the Earth down and prevents over-crowding of the planet.
  16. Some of you misunderstand me. We are animals and must fight hard to channel our animal urges into activities that are beneficial to the universe because we capable of it and because it is the only place to go from here for true progress as a planet.

    But we are still animals and self preservation (the self over the community) and aggressive behavior are intrinsic qualities bred into us from evolution that must be harnessed (not ignored) and controlled by free will and compassion to lead us towards a solution that will allow us to transcend to greater existential heights.

    Aggression and violence are of COURSE animal nature, just look around you and you'll see they are imprinted in all living things on this planet (even the plants, which grow taller then their neighbors, block out the sun and kill each other), but we are unique in that we are sentient, we each have the capability to understand our place in the greater scheme of things, recognize they urges and drives and understand them, and using that knowledge, we have a means of achieving an ultimately more gratifying existence for all.

    But war is not an act of aggression by a community, not anymore. War is no longer necessary for survival. it is a manipulation by those of a higher consciousness who are using some human tool (imagination and free will, though compassion is suspiciously lacking) to rally less aware individuals to fulfill their own selfish animal desires for wealth.

    War in 2007 is not human nature however. We are not beating each other to death with clubs out of necessity as it may have been at one time (and even then perhaps the potential for an alternative way was there), but because the plentiful wealth of the planet is not being made available to all of us because a corrupt and ultimately foolish few completely misunderstand the true power of humanity.

    We are like gods imitating insects. We have more than enough power to explore and understand the universe but we've closed our minds to those possibilities. Why? Two reasons I think, and they converge.

    One answer is an internal problem. Man vs. himself. The issue of questioning one's own existence. It's painful, it's difficult, and it requires a lot of time and effort. How much time, I think depends on the individual. Some are better at thinking than others. But it's an amount of time that many are unwilling to put in because they're caught up in other desires which brings me to the next point.

    The other reason is that the few who have come to power will do ANYTHING to keep awareness at minimal levels because the less aware their followers are, the easier it is to control them. Man vs. man. Since it's already difficult for one to question oneself and develop one's mind, even in ideal situations, those in power don't have to do much to minimize awareness in their followers. Using the media, they emphasis base animal needs (obtaining wealth, sex etc) and desires as being of paramount importance and since these desires are so strong the individual goes along willingly and complacently. The best need to emphasize is the desire for power (wealth) since not only does it preoccupy thoughts but also time, as one spends a lifetime working hard at becoming a "productive" member of society. It's very easy to manipulate almost anyone if you can convince them that what they want is what you have to offer.

    I say, sure, until we stop viewing power as something that can be seized and accumulated and begin to see it something that can and must be shared evenly by each member of the planet, war will appear to be neccesary.

    But it isn't.
  17. Duck

    Duck quack. Lifetime Supporter

    can you jsut expalin how anythign humans do could be not in their nature?

    that's like watching someithing happen, and going "hey, that can't happen!"
    well.. it did
  18. L.A.Matthews

    L.A.Matthews Senior Member

    Very well said!
  19. Just because something happens repeatedly does not make it inevitable. Observe history closely and you'll see that war is rarely the will of the masses but rather the will of the educated few carried out by the masses through manipulation and deceit.

    Sign up for the military, go to war, and then come back and tell me how natural and gratifying the experience was.
  20. L.A.Matthews

    L.A.Matthews Senior Member

    History always tells us that if it can happen once, it can certainly happen again; so yes, war is inevitable.

    I don't understand this:

    'Observe history closely and you'll see that war is rarely the will of the masses but rather the will of the educated few carried out by the masses through manipulation and deceit.'

    ...Are you saying that the masses aren't 'educated'? Just because someone agrees with war doesn't make them stupid or ignorant.

    Also, have you ever signed up for the military to tell us the contrary to it being 'gratifying'? Actually, who even said that war is gratifying? If you've never even been to war, how do you know that it isn't gratifying?:confused:

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