Use the system to rip the system!

Words to live by.

What systems are you dependant on, and how can you do without them? Is simple withdrawal from the system enough, or should you persist in war against it? Or do you remain on the inside, monkeywrenching when opportunities present themselves? Is the final destruction of the system the only freedom from the system? And if people are a part of the system, is a war against the people (but still for the people,) justified? Is terrorism an acceptable means to an end? How do you define it? For instance, what is the difference between "terror" and "shock and awe"? Does a legitimate government make the difference? If so, what defines what is legitimate?

 

the system can only survive when people are willing to work for the system to push rthe systems goals against the people
but if the people work for the people against the system towards the goals of the people the system becomes obsolete and fails

i hate when ppl say u gotta work within the systemn to make the system a lil better ..i say work outside the system to make life better for all people..u cant fix a broken system from inside u become broken too u haverto step outside only to see its too far broken to fix ..so scrap it.. rebuildd a better one ..or live together as people without a system..

the only legitimate government is..ourselves govern your own actions every day and u dont need a government to govern you

 

Very good post, soaringeagle.

It is said, that a people deserve the government they deserve.

So, if a bunch or a mass of people are unthinking sheeple, then they deserve the stupidity of the government that they created.

After all, the idiots in government belong to the same pool of idiots in the population.

 

That's right, kill the leader and his organization, then kill all other organizations vying for power.

Then only your organization that is vying for power is left standing,

You take power.


That's the same approach the Nazis and Bolshevicks took.

And I don't like much of either.

 

Revolutions Are Easy. It's The Aftermath That's Hard To Deal With. Look At The Power Vacuum In Iraq. Who Will Replace Our Current Regime With Democracy? Hopefully There Are Elements Of The Military That Are Truly Loyal To The Constitution That Will Protect Us From Chaos. I Believe This To Be Probable (it Happened In The Ussr Following Reform/revolution).
The True Path To Our Freedom Lies In Following The Example Of Solidarity In Poland. Those People Walked Off Their Jobs And Shut The Country Down. There Are Two Things Which Could Possibly Trigger That Here. Really Bad Economic Times (happening Now!??) And/or Huge Scandal Calling Our Form Of Government Into Question Such As Watergate, Bush Stealing The Election, 911, Rip Off By Bush/oil.
People Are Fed Up - Save Up Food And Water - Walk Off Your Jobs, Hell It's Only Minimum Wage Anyway!!!!!!!

 

this guy made one post (obviously this one) and is gone?
Interesting....

...I wonder why....nothing wrong with it.

I thought it was thought provoking.

 

"Remember, remember, the fifth of november..."
Why not destroy the corrupt leaders?

 

Maybe Maximus got him banned or something... cuz you know, fredom of speech is BAAAAAD. Speaking out against the Man is BAAAAD.

 

Some of the quotes I've been thinking about that apply here.

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - credited to Ben Franklin

No man’s life, liberty or property are safe while the Legislature is in session. - credited to both Mark Twain and Gideon J. Tucker

One who breaks an unjust law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for law. -Martin Luther King, Jr.

Unjust laws exist: shall we be content to obey them?
-Henry David Thoreau

It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousy to deprive a man of his natural liberty upon the supposition he may abuse it. -George Washington

Effective action is always unjust. - Maya Angelou

Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom of Europe. the supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any bands of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States.-Noah Webster

Patriotism means unqualified and unwavering love for the nation, which implies not uncritical eagerness to serve, not support for unjust claims, but frank assessment of its vices and sins, and penitence for them.-Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Dare to do things worthy of imprisonment if you mean to be of consequence.-Juvenal

Never do anything against conscience even if the state demands it.-Albert Einstein

It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong.-Voltaire

If... the machine of government... is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law.-Henry David Thoreau, On the Duty of Civil Disobediance, 1849

You're not supposed to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who says it.-Malcolm X

Human history begins with man's act of disobedience which is at the very same time the beginning of his freedom and development of his reason.-Erich Fromm, Psychoanalysis and Religion

Each man must for himself alone decide what is right and what is wrong, which course is patriotic and which isn't. You cannot shirk this and be a man. To decide against your conviction is to be an unqualified and excusable traitor, both to yourself and to your country, let men label you as they may.-Mark Twain

If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.-Louis D. Brandeis

Laws are only words written on paper, words that change on society's whim and are interpreted differently daily by politicians, lawyers, judges, and policemen. Anyone who believes that all laws should always be obeyed would have made a fine slave catcher. Anyone who believes that all laws are applied equally, despite race, religion, or economic status, is a fool.-John J. Miller, And Hope to Die

Disobedience, the rarest and most courageous of the virtues, is seldom distinguished from neglect, the laziest and commonest of the vices.-George Bernard Shaw, Maxims for Revolutionists

Every actual state is corrupt. Good men must not obey laws too well.-Ralph Waldo Emerson

We should never forget that everything Adolf Hitler did in Germany was "legal" and everything the Hungarian freedom fighters did in Hungary was "illegal."-Martin Luther King, Jr., "Letter from Birmingham Jail," Why We Can't Wait, 1963

We cannot, by total reliance on law, escape the duty to judge right and wrong.... There are good laws and there are occasionally bad laws, and it conforms to the highest traditions of a free society to offer resistance to bad laws, and to disobey them.-Alexander Bickel

It is necessary to distinguish between the virtue and the vice of obedience.-Lemuel K. Washburn, Is The Bible Worth Reading And Other Essays, 1911

I think that we should be men first, and subjects afterward. It is not so desirable to cultivate a respect for the law, so much as for the right.-Henry David Thoreau, Civil Disobedience, 1849

As long as the world shall last there will be wrongs, and if no man objected and no man rebelled, those wrongs would last forever.-Clarence Darrow

It is not what a lawyer tells me I may do; but what humanity, reason, and justice tell me I ought to do.-Edmund Burke, Second Speech on Conciliation, 1775

I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.-Robert A. Heinlein, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress

Ordinarily, a person leaving a courtroom with a conviction behind him would wear a somber face. But I left with a smile. I knew that I was a convicted criminal, but I was proud of my crime. -Martin Luther King, Jr., March 22, 1956

If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality.-Bishop Desmond Tutu

It is not a man's duty, as a matter of course, to devote himself to the eradication of any, even the most enormous wrong; he may still properly have other concerns to engage him; but it is his duty, at least, to wash his hands of it, and, if he gives it no thought longer, not to give it practically his support. If I devote myself to other pursuits and contemplations, I must first see, at least, that I do not pursue them sitting upon another man's shoulders.-Henry David Thoreau, On the Duty of Civil Disobedience

 

You can destroy the corrupt leaders, but what when others take their place? How many leaders will you need to take out?

"You can't blow up a social relationship"

stev90 - does the blaming the "sheeple" argument not take a hit by the fact that the elite has turned them into sheeple through psychological warfare?

 

I'm English. So I may not understand you. What system are you trying to beat? I dont mean to be the White sheep amoungst a group of black sheep. But I thought I just might make a few points open to criticism (keep it polite please):

1. Firstly in reasponse to bloodynailpolish. Speaking out against the system is not bad its good. Even politicians think its good. Despite what you may think politicians are people who often want to help their people. The reason activists are often not taken seriously is because they have the dillusion of an opression that doesn't exist.

2. Taking down a leader and a "system" isn't really a good things. Power vacuum has already been mentioned. If you want to see what the long term effects of such action would be visit Liberia. Gangs and people govern them selves by the most supreme of authorities - violence.

3. Yes you must work in a system. Everyone does, each person fills a place. Whether you work hard and pay your taxes, sit at home on benefits, deal drugs, mug old ladies or are homless. The system has a place for all of you.

4. Consider what is a system? In this context I gather it to be a loop of government protocols. And societys expectations. Well why would you want it to collapse? Given many people in developed countrys live in poor conditions. But I doubt anyone I speak to here is that bad off as you have Internet.

In my opinion the "system" anywhere will never be perfect. But with all our knowledge and technology we cannot destroy it. Or inigate massive change. I think many systems work fine. Its just a case of getting on with life in many cases.

 

when the people wake up and realize that THEY are actually the system and stop working for it the system will dissapear. make labor free, stop using money, and produce for use and not for profit, and the system has nothing to work off of. if people did that then there wouldnt be a need for a revolution to destroy the system.

 

She was being sarcastic. And politicians think its good because it supports the facade of freedom.

No. They're not, actually. People who truly want to help do not become politicians, period.

Not taken seriously by who? You? The oppression is covert. "None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free".

This is no reason not to take down a system. Just something to remind us that the destruction of a system isn't the totality of a revolution.

This is simplistic, stupid, and doesn't make sense in the the end. Violence isn't an authority, it's a method of authority, and places where a system has been destroyed gives no indication of what would happen were another system to be destroyed in different and not purely reactive circumstances.

BS. You didn't give a reason, so.. just BS.

Why wouldn't you? The stance of anarchists is that the government doesn't work in their interests, so they want to destroy those protocols. And why would you want to be constricted by societies expectations?

Irrelevent.

Yes, because if you have the internet, you must be happy. This sort of argument pisses me off. Not assuming you do, but all the time, people say we're too materialistic, then argue that we should be happy cos we've got certain toys to play with.

Yay passivity! And why can't we destroy it? Says who? Because we haven't so far?

 

But, some people are happy with the current system, even if you and I are not. You shouldn't force something like that on people, just like we shouldn't be forcing democracy on the Middle East.

 

Destroying the total system is kind of like the people of alabama suing the state (themselves) because their school system is shite.

I believe the phrase is 'cutting off one's nose to spite one's face'

 

I have to admit, you make some valid points, and its always refreshing to hear from someone from another country.

 

i don't mind uprooting the rich little neighborhoods of the little blue collar sheep and inconviniencing them if it means freedom from oppression. There are idiots who don't want to be free; should we let them hold us back? no! There's nothing morally wrong in my opinion with showing someone the truth even if they don't want to know.

 

Lootfish. I think it is incredibly un-fair to generalize that no politian wants to help. There are many who do (regrettably there is still a reasonable number that don't). There are many laws, policies and protocols in England and America that are there for the sole purpose of making our lives more comfortable and safe.

The idea of a power vacuum is a reason not to take down the "system". Un-less you have an authority figure behind which people can rally you are likely to have two or three conflicting groups. Which isn't going to make things any better. It will merely create a situation similar to the one you have now. Only less ordered and with more violence.

Violence would result in the absence of authority. Looking at what happened in New Orleans, after the hurricane the lack of authority resulted in looting and panic. This in turn led to people fighting over the loot and resources. For the weeks following the disaster the robbery and murder rate sky rocketed.

I do not appreciate being accused of BS. If you had read my point you would have realized that I did explain it. My point was that no matter what you do you work with the "system". You can try and list methods or things you could do to get out of the system, but nothing short of leaving the developed world would remove you from a "system".

Well I'm guessing you're free willed enough to escape societies expectations. Just because they are there doesn't mean you have to fulfill them. By no means am I saying "be a sheep, and blindly follow" I'm merely saying consider the benefits of what you have now and what changes you are screaming about instigating.

My point about people in developed countries was not irrelevant. I was merely expressing the point that I do not believe that just because you live in a rich country, that you must be rich.

Saying that you have the internet therefore you mustn't be that bad off is a good point. I'm guessing you put, family, food, water, shelter and health before your internet connection. Therefore these other boxes must be satisfactorily ticked to allow you to afford the internet. And by the way, I have nothing against materialism. Fact is things can make us happy. Not as happy has human company, but a form of happiness non the less.

Yes, instead of running around complaining about life and the "system". Get over it, make the system work for you like everyone else. It doesn't interfere with your everyday life. And if it does please tell me how. (I'm genuinely curious).

Questions for everyone, I am curious what it is you all dislike so much about the current "system".
And if you could what changes would you bring about?

I doubt there is a single person in the world that would say the system they are in is perfect. Not even politicians. I bet most people could list over 50 things they want to change.

Also in what way are you oppressed? Because no offense here it seems like you may be making mountains out of mole hills. Please prove me wrong.

 

(Testing posting-Ignore)

 

That's ignorant of you