Trying to get some Yoga threads started. Is this subject really so useless?

Is there not any interest? This Hipforums used to have interesting posters. But ten years ago now they left. What happened?

 

A lot of our membership has died, especially the old original hippies who hung out here. Not to say there isn't anyone practicing yoga here.

Given the age ranges on this site, most of us know about and practice yoga if only occasionally.

Is there some Yoga news we're missing?

 

Anything to add posts to this, my favorite sub-forum. I leave. Come back years later, and no new posts.

 

I practice hatha yoga whenever I feel the need, which is rare these days. Mostly breathing and meditation. Last time I used a yoga mat, I couldn't get up!

 

Members leaving can contribute to other members leaving. If enough members leave, there can be a critical point reached where a forum dies.

I'm not sure if your departure contributed to the death of the forum, but staying active is the best way to keep it alive.

 

I've had three meditative (dhyana) yoga teachers... and I'm not referring to the labels they used for the dhyana methods they taught. Jerome Jarvis, Mel Weitsman, and Baba Hari Das. Basically, a daily thing, and I've been practicing for many years.

I have friends in my immediate area who are practicing Rinzai-Zen style, Yogananda's Kriya (SRF group twice a week), and kundalini.

 

If talking about hatha
- in the original tantric approach, then very few have a clue, a bit in some tibetan lineages remains
- in the later medieval deritualised derivate (Pradipika), then a few sadhus, but they are now also getting influenced by modern versions
- in the modern (post Kaivalyananda and Krishnamcharya) iteration it is a business scam based on initial lies and supported by pseudoscience and political far right backing. A bad physical exercise and third grade spiritual practice


If talking about Patanjali I don’t know many that practice it, Sutras are usually reinterpreted in a syncretic manner to fit into whatever later tradition.

If used in the wider sense like the (fairly modern) concept of the 4 yogas (bhakti, karma, raja, jnana) then there can be a lot of interesting topics, but it is also so generalised to basically equal any and every religious, spiritual and even irreligious conscious mental practice, so what is the point of using a specific word that does not mean anything actually specific.

 

I am not saying that practices are new, just the widespread and universally used systematisation (or acceptance of) into 4 yogas (as is the very idea of an unified systemised Hinduism, it was just a bunch of different and opposing sects in premodern times, all with their own systems and systematisation of practices, even different definitions of same or similar terminology. To some extent still is while superimposing modern universalist Hinduism at the same time, which adds to the confusion ).

 

Though on a positive side it is a good model and all spiritual* practice can be explained through “4 yogas” - hindu or otherwise.
It is just that then yoga = any practice ever and becomes a very broad topic.

*spiritual practice here meaning “get your ass out of samsara”, not including the “make samsara easier” esotericism which can also be called spirituality but not necessarily subsumed under 4y.

 

On the theoretical/historical topic, Alain Danielou—a French-born scholar and insider (practitioner) of Indian arts & culture—is an interesting authority. He spent much of his adult life studying in India, diving deeply into Indian historical scholarship and practices of the sub-continent's varied ethnic cultures.

First off, I'll say I make no claim to being knowledgeable about yoga's history. But Danielou asserted that when the Aryan people invaded and proceeded to colonize and rule the Ganges Valley (1700-1400BCE), a primary element of their spirituality was the ritual use of soma (which some speculate was a mushroom, while others speculate was a vascular plant). Then, given the specific ecology of the North-India region, over time a sufficient supply of soma became unavailable. So the Ayans became interested in the yoga methods of the earlier people (the Dravidians), and began to utilize those methods (by around 1350BCE).

 

There is some foundation to theories of Sramanic religions (Buddhism, Jainism, Ajivaka etc) being a product of a pre-Vedic tradition, and for the assumption that ideas of asceticism, samsara, moksha, yogic practices etc entered the Vedic and later Hindu culture from there. There is a certain overlap between archeological clues for the mixing of two cultures and the first appearance of ascetic ideals in later Damitha, than developing in later Vedic texts up to Upanishads into a more recognisable form. Later Hindu reforms of course have taken a lot from developed monastic Buddhism, both directly and through opposition to the same, that part is certain.


The other extreme in interpretation comes from the nationalistic hindutva right wing and orthodox Hinduism, trying to prove there never was an Aryan migration, and that Sramanas are just an offshoot of the Vedic culture and that there is no independent element. The classical hindu narrative about the Buddha, specially when it gets integrated as another “avatar”, is that he came at a moment of degeneration of the Vedic religion to take down the bad influence. But that is a purely religious claim that makes little historical sense.
Most international historians reject the nationalistic historical narrative, but it has a strong backing of populist (and often aggressive and violent, including towards disagreeing academics) right politics and a strong presence in contemporary India.

Ultimately once we go beyond strong written sources and have to extrapolate from oral traditions and limited archeology everything is at least somewhat speculative and we are dealing in tentative probabilities more than certainties.

 

The thread title is "Trying to get some Yoga threads started. Is this subject really so useless?"

I'm really still new here, but I'm starting to believe I understand the reason for the question. I get the impression that most members are interested in psychedelics, entheogens, cannabis for frequent use. Less interested in using a yogic or autogenic method involving a regular (daily, etc) practice. In my view, the latter involves a discipline. I don't place a value judgment on this.

I certainly have good friends with each of those orientations. What I can say is that some of my friends have used or still occasionally enjoy cannabis and/or shrooms, but are committed to some form of India-derived yoga meditation, or Ch'an or Zen practice.

For myself, the psychedelics/entheogens were effective & important up to a point. And I might still find an occasional psilocybin trip valuable. But the regular dhyana practice has had a more thorough (in that way, deeper) effect on my day to day consciousness.

 

I get the impression most are interested in some bedroom “yoga”

 

I have done yoga for a few years. But with arthritis it's getting harder on the joints.
So what i do now is a cross of water yoga and joint exercise in a heated pool. All of the positions are in a standing or slight bending position. Otherwise your under the water. lol
But it works for me, and it does help.

 

Do you have an interest in the meditation dimension of yoga?

 

I consider the meaning of "yoga", for myself, as something involving the traditional sorts of inner practices, but other ingredients as well. What do I mean? First, there was having my mind opened with unguided but introspective psychedelic experiences. Learning meditation practices from several different teachers of varied traditions.

Also looking into some of the self-work approaches of contemporary psychotherapy. Then also, making a practice of mindfulness of emotions & thoughts during daily life & its challenges. Dream journaling over a period of a year. Doing what I can to keep relationships & communication with other people in a mutually good space. Accepting responsibility for my past actions.

And having one unforgettable healing experience by a spiritual healer.

Recently, I've been finding Rupert Sheldrake's 'Morphic Resonance' theory, and his writings and online presentations, extremely interesting.

 

I do meditation when I find myself getting stressed. Or after a stressful event. But not on a daily basis. Maybe once a week or so.