troubles in the salvia realms....

Discussion in 'Salvia Divinorum' started by nesta, Sep 1, 2005.

  1. nesta

    nesta Banned

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    okay, so i've decided that when using psychedelics for spiritual growth or other beneficial purposes, i won't do much good if i forget the experiences and what i may learn from them, so i've decided to start keeping a "drug diary."

    the first entry was made yesterday upon waking, relating to the salvia experience i'd had the night before. i'll try my best to explain my question right now, but if i need to or if people may be interested, i may post most of the entry (pretty long) online for you.

    basically my problem is this: the first few times i tripped from salvia (initial breakthrough and subsequent several experiences) were beautiful, spiritual, even mystical experiences. i had a wide range of different states, and was shown many wonderful things....one trip i was brought to the salvia goddess, and she healed my girlfriend (at the time) of shingles, one trip i was taken to what i refer to as "behind the scenes" of the world where i was shown an infinite stairway with angels walking up and down it, tending to people's needs in ways that wouldn't make sense if i attempted to explain them....at any rate, my experiences seemed very real, i had bizarre, surreal, and beautiful trips. they didn't seem very "druggy" at all, and never were frightening. i was so moved by them at times (at least twice i believe i was brought to some kind of goddess or something, one entity which i could never completely make out but knew she was there) that during the trip i was actively communing with and, you could say, worshipping.

    several months passed before i tried salvia again. at least a year.
    a friend had gotten some spearmint scented (why? i dont know what the purpose of the scent was) 20x extract from a headshop. it was her first time using it, or any psychedelic, and it scared the living jesus out of her. she passed it on to me after a single use for a reduced price. it scared me, too. i chalked it up to the fact that it was simply too strong. it felt like it was tearing my body to shreds.....i passed it along yet again, to someone who, while not in a healthy state of mind and who shouldn't be using psychedelics at all, at least could handle the salvia and like it.

    i invested later in some non-standardized 10x. thats what i currently have. i've tried it two or three times, with similarly alien and frightening results as with the 20x. the night before last i intentionally dosed very light....i decided i wanted enough to get -some- effects and actually trip, but not so much that i wouldn't be able to just sit back and observe it and not let it get to me. it was hard, but i managed. the next morning i wrote about it.

    from what i recall presently, the body sensations throw me off a lot. it feels like energy is welling up around the abdomen and chest and spreading out through the body. almost like a plant growing at unbeleivable speed. this is normal, i know, but at the higher doses it's what made me feel like i was being shred to bits....it just shocks me, even when i expect it.

    whatever is behind me effectively disappears and becomes a field of energy somehow. if i'm sitting up, the wall to my back is gone; if i'm laying down, the bed, couch, or the floor is gone. i only sense this field, i dont see it. i get the feeling i could travel through it if i wanted.

    most disturbingly though is that my house seems very, very alien when i'm on it, and i can't manage to keep my eyes closed some of the time, if theres even a little bit of light in the room to distract me. this could even be something as subtle as moonlight and streetlamps piercing through the shades in my bedroom. which is what i think the major problem is, opening my eyes. the apartment takes on a sinister air, and it feels very alien, plastic, and replaceable. its a series of townhouses, and i get the feeling i could easily travel through the energy field behind me, walk a matter of a few steps over, and enter into another mass-produced factorymade home next door. thats basically what it comes down to....the 20x experience started this feeling, and it has persisted ever since.

    at the time of the 20x trip, which i posted about i believe, i ran into some bizarre technology on my trip which i couldnt explain to anyone. only now do i sort of understand it in a way, and my memory of it is foggy. i remember much more clearly the feelings surrounding it, the terror and bizzareness of it. i'm sure i have more than one thing mashed into a single memory, so i wont try to explain it because it's hard to pick these memories apart from another. part felt like i was being zipped up in a suitcase or trapped in something, part of it was like being at a science fair and watching this terrible thing at work like some alien play-do factory creating rugs and turf and....well....as anyone who's tried a full blown salvia trip knows, most of it is beyond lingual description. anyway, i believe it was this element of the 20x trip that has been haunting me ever since, but in various forms. always related to my habitat.

    i've also run into a serious problem that i hope to solve with the drug diary, and that is state-specific memory. on this lower dose the other night, i realized many of the ideas, feelings, and sights i'd experienced with other trips came back to me in a much more clear and concise way, but when in normal "sober" reality they can elude me to a terrible degree. like trying to find a peice of soap lost in a bubble bath....each time you feel the edge of it it slips out of your hand only to be lost. or like trying to watch a squirrel climb a tree.....even if he's apparently staying still halfway up the trunk, if you walk around to the other side to try and see him up close, he knows it and scurries sideways around so you can never see him too directly. if you're another squirrel, though, he won't mind if you see him. its sort of like that....i have much better recall of my salvia experiences when i'm either using it currently or in the short while after a trip.

    salvia has the potential to be one of the most moving psychedelics there is, and it's wonderful that it is STILL legal most places. its beyond me. it has so much to offer, but it almost hurts that lately i've had nothing but "bad" experiences. things so strange its hard to make sense of them and hard to even learn from them. i think i'm doing better though, getting to the root of the problem.

    so far, i can think of a few solutions to help me. first of all, i would like to try salvia in a much more natural setting. i live in what basically ARE factory made homes, so i suppose it isn't too surprising that i react in a negative way to it when i smoke this in my apartment. but i can't exactly do salvia in a park in the daytime or something, so i'm at a loss here.

    i need to get some eyeshades like they have on airplanes. that way, even if i open my eyes, i'll be immersed fully in the salvia experience and not be faced with the trouble of integrating my trip with my earthly surroundings. this idea just came to me as i was typing this, as i remembered when i read rick strassmans book on his DMT research that eventually he started giving these to his subjects, because the effect of having to cope with both your physical surroundings and the effects of a VERY powerful psychedelic can just be too much for most people. this seems like it will help a lot, because most of the reason i open my eyes is that when they're closed, my first alert to the effect apart from the physical rush is a ring of patterning around the periphery of my "vision"....and the things making up the patterning often remind me of things from my environment, and i feel as if my eyes are open anyway. perhaps this will help me with this issue.

    other than a different location or using eyeshades, i can't think of any way to even possibly regain the mystical experiences i had in the beginning, things that even now are VERY near and dear to my heart and have actually largely driven my continued use of psychedelics. i suppose i could continue with my lower-dose experiments until i reach a more concrete conclusion as to how to deal with it.

    i think what may have happened is that the 20x was far more intense than my first few trips. while they were full blown, entirely psychedelic states in completely different realities, they paled in comparison to the 20x. but the 20x scared me shitless. ive mentioned the state-specific memory....perhaps part of the 20x trip that i can't grasp when "sober" come back to me when i'm at a lower dose and they soil my experience? in this case i would assume its just a matter of easing my way back in until i'm comfortable with salvia again, and then it should probably start treating me well once more.

    i can't help but feel many mixed emotions regarding this. fear, love, sadness, joy that i was able to maintain during this last one, even if i barely did, optimism, despair....but then salvia has always been very unusual and full of contradictions for me. i'm a relatively rational person; but incidents involving goddesses and angels and healing.....incidents that even carry on into "real life"....i cannot just ignore them. for example, after i had a vision of my ex being healed by the salvia goddess, the VERY NEXT MORNING i got a call from her saying the pain was all gone, and every day after she got just a little bit better. i can't conceive of this using logic or reason, so i dont try. its faith, i suppose, but in what i couldn't begin to guess.

    well, i don't really know what my point is. i guess i am asking for advice, hints, suggestions....the people i know who use drugs want to get "fucked up"....i want to learn, to grow, to experience things no one else gets to, to have a personal and self-created religion, to touch and speak with god. THAT is why i use psychedelics, and until recently salvia was THE BEST wat to do this. better than acid, better than mushrooms, far better than ecstacy...these are all toys in comparison. i guess i feel so much grief in "losing" my ability to experience salvia with profound visions and teachings, but instead must suffer through fear and alien appearances of everyday things.

    i almost feel like the "goddess" or whatever that i feel is specific to salvia is punishing me, beating down my ego for such reckless actions as led me to use the 20x in the way i did....carelessly, like it was just another drug....i should have known better. i only hope this is the case, that these few bad experiences are my penance...i get the feeling i'm being told i must gain her trust again or get lost and never come back. but where i've gone has been too wonderful to never return......

    hikaru, i'm hoping that if anyone can understand my post it will be you. perhaps its unfair to ask you specifically for aid, comfort, or instruction...but...even for so young a member, you obviously have an understanding of this substance that most people do not. i'm sure to one who has never experienced anything close to these things that my post sounds like just another crazy drug user babbling on about things that aren't real....

    i think a big problem is that i believe in the power of things like salvia and mushrooms and other psychedelics...they can teach us a lot...but unlike the shamans or other holy people that have used these before me, i have no teaching, no training, no guide to help me understand them, to help me on my journeys. my teachers are these substances, and they sure don't always make themselves clear. it's hard to integrate, you know? i need a teacher from THIS reality as well as from other realms....so when i find someone that seems to understand something better than i, i tend to humble myself towards them. i guess thats why i'm picking on you, hikaru, and i hope you or SOMEONE has some advice! :p

    peace to all creation


    -nesta
     
  2. nesta

    nesta Banned

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    sorry for the lengthy post. i've had a lot of time i've spent thinking about this. hell, it took me an hour to write that....took me an hour and a half to write my entry in my journal! if you want, i can post some of it here. i think i need a bit more ritualism in my consumption, too. i tried last time to prepare myself the best i could prior to the experience by meditating over a bowl of pot for about half an hour while quieting myself and preparing to let go into oblivion if need be....a trip with salvia is ALWAYS a trip into the COMPLETELY unknown....after several of the brief meditation sessions with bong hits in between, i packed the bowl with the dose of salvia, and held it in both hands asking it for instruction and help and guidance....asking for understanding of my last experiences....i waited to smoke it until i felt like it was calling back to me in acceptance, or at least enough acceptance to not mentally murder me.....

    yeah, its probably a bunch of just crap, just "psyching myself out" in preparation....but i did find it useful, coupled with the smaller dose, and it certainly can't help. {EDIT: hurt. it certainly can't HURT.} if its comforting and helps me let go, i figure if anything its a good idea to pray or meditate or wait until i feel like it's "calling me" to it before using....

    anyway, i can post about some experiences and things that are bothering me in more detail if anyone thinks it may be necessary to offer me advice. given the length and depth of the last post i made, though, i figure most people have had enough of my rambling :p
     
  3. Trippin' Billies

    Trippin' Billies Senior Member

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    keep posting, im interested... i do think that maybe the, perhaps subcontious, fear and dread of another bad trip (like the 20x u described) is leading u to continue having bad trips... i no expert on salvia, just seems (from my own experiences with psychedelics) that bad trips occur often becuase of my focusing so damn hard on having a good a trip while my subcontious is focused on NOT having a bad trip... or maybe ur dealing sumthing internally and its appearing to u through salvia because u dont realize it while sober?? idk . and i think keeping a drug diary, esspecially with salvia, is a great idea... i hope the good salvia trips return and u find wut ur trying to find mentally... keep up the good posts
     
  4. nesta

    nesta Banned

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    yeah, i think theres a chance that perhaps i have too many negative feelings related to my environment (apartment, neighbors, neighborhood, etc.) welling up that i'm not entirely conscious of, or at least not dealing with properly. perhaps they are coming to the surface primarily during salvia trips. salvia doesn't produce euphoria for me generally, the way shrooms or lsd or something would, so while they're beneficial in their own right, salvia is more honest, in my opinion, and not at all sugar coated. perhaps thats it...
     
  5. Hikaru Zero

    Hikaru Zero Sylvan Paladin

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    Hey, I saw my name mentioned here ...

    My deepest apologies but I doubt I'll be able to read the full length of what was said for a few days. I'm leaving for a staff retreat this weekend until Monday. =(

    I will read it when I get the chance though.
     
  6. nesta

    nesta Banned

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    no worries
     
  7. nesta

    nesta Banned

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  8. opticalpromise

    opticalpromise Member

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    i have some possible solutions to offer. first, the body sensations, i believe may be due to the sudden and rapid change in consciousness. even though smoking salvia on acid or other psychedelics intensifys the salvia trip by a lot, ( and salvia plenty powerful on it own i know), it may also let you accept the salvia state easier when your coming up, because you were already altered and used to the altered state.
    doing salvia while already tripping also helps with the state specific memory problem because once you come down from the salvia your still tripping and its easier to reflect on the experience even return to that state, but still be lucid enough and not disorientated from the intensity of the salvia rush. if you dont want to taint the salvia with other drugs, you can do a similar thing by chewing leaves/ using tincture first and then smoking at the peak. also consider, maybe chewing salvia by itself,
    and finally to fix the problem of your setting you just need to reserve your trips to the night time when everyone else is sleeping, and hang blankets over your windows until you get total darkness,
     
  9. redgreenvines

    redgreenvines Member

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    when uncomfortable, ratchet back with the quantity being used.
    keep up that diary - definitely good for you and us.
    post when it suits you we will indulge in the content like candy.
     
  10. Raving Sultan

    Raving Sultan Banned

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    try putting on some music on headphones so it blocks out everything else with winamp and check out the visualizations like milkdrop with salvia. don't let anything distract you and i think you will enjoy your trip much more. its easy to get freaked out when in deep salvia mode. i feel like a vulnerable child when in its deep trance. the computer graphics came to life literally and they were so interesting that even though i was in such a complete state of hallucination that i was calm.
     
  11. nesta

    nesta Banned

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    a) i dont have a computer at my place, i use my parents when i'm visiting them (which is nearly every day for at least a little while) so i can't watch winamp things while tripping

    b) music, television, whatever only makes me more grounded in "reality" and will distract me from the effect of the drug. i have no use for salvia if i'm not going to an entirely different plane of existance, and while salvia will make the "real" world with eyes open and sounds present quite bizarre and "trippy," i find it to be a very unpleasant way to trip. i find the effects of salvia, no matter how strong, will dissappear MUCH more quickly with my eyes open or with ANYTHING reminding me of the outside world (such as music) influencing me. perhaps this is due to being more grounded in my physical world and then more readily recognizing the "actual" passage of time
     

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