Time dilation

Relativistic time dilation.

One of the most fascinating concepts our inquiry into reality has revealed.
Not just a theory but proven in real world experiment.
Mass at higher velocity 'processes 1 sec per second' at a slower rate relative to mass at lower velocity.

Why does mass at high velocity have a slower rate of motion/process?
Occam had a gut intuition on this a decade or so back when looking into the properties of space.

Friction

Occam

 

The argument for time diation really are a perfect example of an argument for a conceptual mind mathematical logic is not required. Look it up on the web, all thats required is trig and the 4 basic operators though an ability to mentaly plot functions would help. I couldn't do it justice here.

 

Are you saying that friction causes time dilation? because that's wrong.

 

Fat tony...

So math is not reqired when a plane with a cesium clock ALWAYS reads a dilation effect [discrepancy to earth bound clock] of the same amount after x hours of flight.
Clocks are not about time. they are about the rate of process of motion.
the motion being the 'time' that we so quaintly call it.

Occam

 

Early

Is the objective 'rate of process of motion' also an invention of man?

Occam

 

Streamlight..

How can u say this when occam did NOT say what the friction was caused by?
Occam NEVER says anything is WRONG or RIGHT.
He proposes, speculates and imagineers.

Occam

 

No its not that mathematic multiply and divide, theres also a subtract. t = gamma*t', many physics students will have done it before uni. The hard bit as a I say is following the argument, I do about the caesium cascade clock and decay times but no ones wins there and its not really about relativity anyway.

 

tony

No one wins there?

the experiment shows repeatable results of variation in two independent systems [clocks] that can be explained by no other method.
And THAT IS EXACTLY what time dilation is about.

The clock in the plane 'always' shows less time passed than the one on the ground.
When if both were on the ground there would be no variation.

THAT is REAL WORLD relativity....All the theoretical relativity theory is nothing compared to actual results.
If we could measure the mass and axial length of the aircraft/clock in motion.
Bet U , it would weigh more and be shorter.

Occam

 

Im not saying that the atomic clock on the plane doesnt prove special relativity, its a very nice demonstration of it. Im just saying the maths isnt very intimidating and theres a lot of websites that will do a much better job of explaining it than me, given whats needed is lots of pictures and a degree of abstract thought. The maths really is easy.

 

OK, stop referring to yourself in the third person, thats just stupid.

Here is a good explanation for relativity, I learned relativity from the third expample:

http://aether.lbl.gov/www/classes/p139/exp/gedanken.html

 

I think you have to read all the examples for it to make much sense

 

Yea, its better to read them all, but the third example is what truly made sense to me.

 

Sreamlight

Occam will refer to himself anyway he wishes.
How he refers to himself is no business of yours. People minding other peoples business is why the world is the social shithole it is.
Restrain your comments to WHAT occam says..Not personal comments, which occam has made none to u.. and never will.. even if u call yourself
Hitlers son. or Paragon of virtue. Or God.

The example does not say WHY relativistic effect occur.
It's about 2 observers. Occam says when the cessium clock from the plane is unloaded and the clock on the ground does not match the one that went for a trip on the plane.
Then the two observers are right there with a discrepancy IN OBJECTIVE REALITY.. Time OBJECTIVELY passes slower in mass at high velocity
Nothing to do with subjective observation.

Time dilation is not math, it is real. Math just tries to explain it.
But cannot explain WHY it happens

try again.

Occam

 

Yeah in slide 3 it comes up with a very important but also a couple of other important bits come up which it fails to acknowledge. But it does explain time dilation I guess, just about.

 

Just about...LOL

Come on tony..

wisdom is knowing what we dont know.

Occam

 

It does say time dilation occurs. It occurs because in a crude sense as you travel at different speeds you see a second as a different length of time to people in other interial reference frames, that is why.

 

and

I did not look at the link. I believe that Occam is, in part, looking for further, deeper or new, understanding of reality and the "why" that Tony refers to certainly appears to be a valid "why," that is "a valid explanation," but as with any explanation of phenomena there are causes, "deeper reasons as to 'why'", that are not understood.



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It does say why it occurs, light is at a constant speed, but, in the third example, you see that the light must travel a longer distance in the same amount of time, that would make it seem that the light was going faster, but, instead, time is forced to slow down.

Time dilation is math, you can use equations to show that it happens, but your right, math can't show why it happens, but math can't show why anything happens.

 

It does say why it occurs, light is at a constant speed, but, in the third example, you see that the light must travel a longer distance in the same amount of time, that would make it seem that the light was going faster, but, instead, time is forced to slow down.

Time dilation is math, you can use equations to show that it happens, but your right, math can't show why it happens, but math can't show why anything happens.

 

I think that one of Occam's points is that time dilation is not "math" in sense that we commonly use the term "math." He appears to be looking for an underlying cause and I believe that sometimes initially "'loose' expressions" used to characterize largely intuitive ideas can be very useful in allowing the use of reasoning in accordance with these intuitive understandings without causing the line of 'intuitive thought' to be immediately shutdown; and, of course, effective use of strict rules of reasoning must be applied before a useful arguement or hypothesis is able to be formed and communicated properly. I think Occam's use of the term "friction" in reference to his question about a possible cause for time dilation is very interesting; and, certainly the use of this term, in this context, is an analog to what we commonly refer to as "friction."

Just as we can utter a sentence to explain "why something happens" we can create mathematical expressions to explain "why something happens."



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