There's no conspiracy. No new world order. No illuminati. Just a lot of stupid voters

You guys that prattle on about various conspiracy theories need to realize that most of them just are not realistic, or even possible.

Over the last few days, I've heard people on these forums state that "this election was decided for us ahead of time." These people aren't only talking about vote-rigging (a dubious allegation at best), but about a conspiracy between Bush and Kerry to throw the election. Nothing could be more ridiculous. Do you honestly believe that Kerry didn't want to win this election?

Those of you who believe a secret cabal is ruling the world - whether it be the Skull and Bones Society, the Bush Family, the mafia, or (my personal favorite) the International Jewish Conspiracy - need to realize just how open of a society we live in. While it's true that we citizens don't always have access to secret military plans or the day-to-day affairs of the president and his cabinet, there are enough records available that any of your conspiracy theories should be evident if they were true.

But they are not. No serious political scientist entertains these notions. In fact, no one important with a degree in any relevant field, such as political science, history, or international affairs actually believes this nonsense. Why is this? Is it because our education system (part of the conspiracy, undoubtedly) has brainwashed all these people, leaving you alone as the sole defender of truth? Is it because these people do exist, but the media (also part of the conspiracy) won't report them? NO. Could it be...just maybe...that your silly conspiracy theories are just flat-out WRONG and have virtually NO evidence supporting them.

The biggest names you have on your side of these conspiracy theories are Lyndon LaRouche, Bobby Fischer, and Saddam Hussein. I have the entirety of the sane world to back up my position, that these conspiracies and secret cabals simply DO NOT EXIST.

 

I have been a keen student of 'alternative' history all my adult life, and I disagree completely with you. I guess I must be a real bonehead cuz I find most of the 'conspiracy' theories make more sense than the pap the media spins at us.

JFK................ya, it was just lil ol Oswald all by hisself. gimme a break

You and I are at opposite ends of the spectrum on this issue. Whatever names have been put to them, groups of powerful folk DO plan and plot behind the scenes in a serious and sincere effort to hold onto their power. To me, that is not such a radical thought. What would you do? To me, your claims are all hot air, just another uninformed, presumptuously skeptical slam against all the people like me that take the time to read the odd book. I assure you, I am no fool, and in my view, the idea that the world's wealthiest and most well bred people are some kind of altruistic open book that can do no wrong.
I call bullshit.

 

Actually, that is one of the few "conspiracy theories" that I will agree with you on. Not because I have any fascination with your secret new world orders. Not because I particularly want it to be true. But because in this case - and only this case - the evidence supports the claim that there were more hands than just Oswald's involved. That does not point to the existence of some grand conspiracy to rule the world; just that Oswald did not act alone.

Of course they try to keep their power. I'm not suggesting they don't. I'm simply countering the claims of the people here who claim that 1) this group is clandestine and extremely powerful, and 2) this group is capable of succeeding in their every whim, better than 99% of the time.

It's just plain ludicrous when people say things like the Skull and Bones Society predetermined that Bush and Kerry would be the nominees and Bush would win the election. NO group has that kind of power, and if they did it would be impossible for them to keep it a secret.

I'm not suggesting that. Plenty of the world's leaders are anything but altruistic. But if any of these conspiracy theories are true, there should be ample evidence of them, and there just is not. And are you honestly telling me that these people are capable of covering up the evidence in nearly every single one of these conspiracies? Even Johnny Cochran can't manage that.

 

Anyone would think suspicious of this election because there just cant be that many rednecks in the U.S. to vote for bush..

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www.geocities.com/scatter_445

 

I'm not suggesting that. Plenty of the world's leaders are anything but altruistic. But if any of these conspiracy theories are true, there should be ample evidence of them, and there just is not. And are you honestly telling me that these people are capable of covering up the evidence in nearly every single one of these conspiracies?
Kandahar

I am honestly telling you that they can't cover shit. What do you think I have been reading? If they could, I'd have nothing to base my stance on. So of course they are not capable of covering them up. TWA 800, I clearly remember the radio news reports right when it happened. What is the line? Oh yeah, spark set off the center fuel tank. NOT.
There is so much info. on that one out there it is not even worthy of being honored as being a cover up.
I had a friend of mine tell me Clinton would BE the next president......before he announced he was running. It was like, yeah, the gov. of Arkansas is gonna be the next pres. BEFORE he announced he was even running, he said BE, not will run for pres., but he'll BE pres. He didn't know whether to believe it or not, as did I. Later, I agreed, he would be, when I saw he was.

 

Yeah.
I have a fairly eccentric view on the elections, in that I feel the last time a candidate won that was not who was planned was JFK. The variable that was unexpected was the very first tv debate, which JFK slayed on. He wasn't sposed to win.
The parties share many common backers, and have since the income tax act days.

 

As for your friend telling you that Clinton would be president beforehand: big deal. In fall 2003, I thought Howard Dean would be president. In fall 1999, I was told by other people that Colin Powell would be president. It's a simple law of averages - if everyone has an opinion on who the next president will be, it isn't surprising that a certain percentage of them turn out to be correct.

"The last time a candidate won that was not planned" reveals your true thoughts. That passive verb indicates to me that you DO think there is a secret cabal running the world. Not just secret meetings of George Bush and Karl Rove to maintain power - everyone knows that those exist - but a conspiracy on a grand scale.

A candidate who was not planned to win by whom? EVERY candidate "plans" to win (every Democrat or Republican anyway). Many of their plans just suck.

...why would your grand world cabal support candidates as wildly diverse as George W. Bush, Ronald Reagan, Jimmy Carter, and Lyndon Johnson? For that matter, why would your cabal ever have the incumbent president defeated if he was their puppet anyway?

 

Ya, well your friends were dead wrong, those guys never even ran.
I doubt I will ever share my real thoughts with you. What the hell for, to be mocked. Fuck that.

 

The point is that it's not surprising that for every correct prediction (Bill Clinton will be president), there are plenty of incorrect predictions too. It's a simple law of averages. There's nothing that amazing about someone predicting Bill Clinton would be president.

 

whatever.

This is typical skeptical reaction. I think it is surprising, there are 50 states, so the only time I have heard anyone predict the next president before the person has even decided to run for president, they are right. He runs, he wins, and it appears your crowd is batting........lets see .000 and we are oh yes 1.000

battin a thousand, why should I care what you think? It is generous of me to reply.

 

and whats all this my cabal? I never claimed to know about a cabal, just that people in power are doing their best to remain there......exciting conspiracy huh.

 

You've never heard anyone predict the next president besides this one instance? You must not discuss politics very often, or watch any of the news channels. I hear people - both friends and national pundits - predicting the next president all the time.

Anyway, it's not hard to make an educated guess about the next president. Even if a candidate hasn't announced he's running, there are usually some clear indications that he is. If I were to predict that John McCain or Hillary Clinton or Bill Frist would be elected in 2008, and I turned out to be right, that would just mean that I looked at the possible contenders and made an educated guess.

Anyway, what exactly are you saying about the fact that your friend "knew" in advance about Bill Clinton? What conclusions are you drawing from that? Is he part of the conspiracy?

You need to take a course in statistics. If I flip a coin ONCE and get tails ONCE, does that mean that I have a 100% chance of getting tails every time I flip the coin? No.

A single instance is NOT statistically significant. Especially when your friend's prediction could've been made based on educated guesses.

You need not be so hostile. I seek only to dispel the credulity of so many conspiracy theorists.

 

You claimed that JFK was the last president who "was not planned." Not planned by whom?

 

I believe that, but never claimed it to be fact.
I don't think it is some 'cabal'. Just the various financial backers that influence policy with their $$$. Illuminati is a term I read Tom Brown use, but I don't know if such a group exists. Skull n bones I have heard of....a fraternity at some Ivy league school. then there is the Freemasons, I know they exist, but don't feel they are running things. It is my totally personal conjecture that the people pulling strings are most likely not some tightly knit organization, but an everchanging group of shy, powerful international big wigs.
It is not so much a conspiracy to me, as the way things work, you play ball, or as in JFK's case, you don't.

 

It is important to seperate some of the more inane unprovable theories; like Kerry conspiring to lose the election, with theories that have some truth to them; like the statistical anomalies with reguards to the Kerry/Bush exit poll discrepency which occurs only in swing states.

I don't know about any illuminati, but I have heard claims that freepers have been spreading conspiracy theories on left-wing message boards. I haven't seen any proof of that, so perhaps that is just another conspiracy theory, I dunno.

 

Exit polls are shit, does anyone remember, DEWEY BEATS TRUMAN! And guess what, Ohio was a deciding factor in the 1948 election too.

 

If you doubt conspiracy theories, look at the Nazi Government and the cold war, Mark Thatcher overthrowing governments... how can you say these conspiracy theories cannot happen?

 

(Using this as an example, Kandahar, since you also agree with it)

If our government will conspire to have it's own President killed, and are pretty much believed to be guilty of it, than what do they get away with?

In the 2000 election they were quite sloppy, but yet people do not seem to care and therefore they got away with their stealing of the election. The majority of people in the state of Florida did not vote for George W Bush in 2000. Jeb Bush's office (obviously linked to George W) had a plan to make thousands of blacks in that state appear to be felons (felons cannot vote in Florida), and they carried out that plan, and worked it out to near perfection.

There is also more evidence linking our government to the 9/11 attacks than any Al-Queda or anybody like that.

And so just what else are they doing and getting away with? Surely they do not get caught everytime they do something of this sort.

 

I didn't say I agreed with that. I said there was most likely *a* conspiracy, not a *government* conspiracy to have Kennedy assassinated. While I wouldn't rule the possibility out, that is much more difficult to prove than a conspiracy in general.

If this suffices as evidence for you conspiracy theorists, then there's no way I'm going to be able to convince you otherwise. Just because ONE conspiracy theory happens to have some evidence behind it doesn't mean that all of the others do too.

 

Of course all conspiracy theories aren't true. SOME SEEM TO MAKE SO MUCH SENSE, thats where I agree with the paranoid. Also Ive been reading up on alot of Illuminati-secret society history and information and then began forgetting it all SLOWLY of the the course of a few weeks. IT must be the small machines send by the GOVERNMENT EATING AWAY AT MY BRAIN. DAMN THOSE MICROSCOPIC TWITS! Or else it could be that it is jumbled like a motherfu*#. And no one knows the truth, because it doesnt exist, THEY dont exist. There is an endless amount of material to babble over and take sides. GO TAKE A SIDE! Thats what they want you to do! Constantly battling over minor technicalities. THe LIBERAL MEDIA!!!! OH NO THERE SO CORRUPT, and the RELIGIOUS RIGHT WING FASCHISTS! I believe there all puppets for the wizard of oz. And If i met that man I would shake his hand. Then become his best friend. Then assassinate him. Metaphorically of course.! Down with the SERPENT. Oh yea about the JFK topics too, one question Ive always had is why would Jackie O grab a piece of skull and hand it to a secret servicemen! Noooooo, NOooooooooooo noooooo way It couldnt BE. I didnt say it was! But it is unproven. ANd it was obvious that JFK had been having affairs. A little motivational talking to by a shady character could spark the motivation ey? I still never said it happened like that.