I'm sorry if there's already a thread like this, I looked but I may be wrong. This is mainly a thread for muslims, not meaning to be offensive or anything, but my main concern is that it'll get offensive so please only post if you have an informed view.. Basically Islam has a hell of a lot of bad press. I know people who actually think Islam is a terrorist group under the guise of a religion, things like that just really get up my nose, so I was hoping that for this thread could you share what you think is the most important part of Islam, or the beliefs in it important to you specifically? I don't know a lot, but I know mohammed created it in part because of his belief other religions were idolatrous. So the only thing I can really ascertain about it (confirmed by listening to some muslims) is that it must be specifically and soly about g-d, and pure, true belief in him? Every time I talk to a muslim about something religious they seem to be really focussed on g-d, which is different to other major semetic religions like christianity and judaism, where emphasis is more on deeds. That's my impression anyway.
This subject is quite large but I'l try to answer as simple as I can. To start off with, islam means submitting one self to Allah (the arabic name for God, the difference is that the word Allah can not be changed and means only 1 god, while the word God can be changed to godfather, gods or goddess etc) Christianity comes from the worshipping of Christ, Buddhism from Buddha and so forth while Muslims on the other hand submit on selves to the lord of the worlds, just as all the prophets from Adam(peace be upon him) to the last of the prophets, Mohammed(peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) who was nothing less than a slave and a messenger who never claimed divinity and refuted those who praised him in such a manner. The most important thing in our religion is the worship of Allah(may he be exalted) and place that as the meaning of life and He has promised those who believe in him and do good deeds paradise and those who reject his message to be doomed. Whoever does righteous deeds - whether male or female - while he (or she) is a believer; then We will certainly give them a good life, and We will certainly grant them their rewards in proportion to the best of what they used to do. [Koran- Nahl 16.97] The use of the pronoun 'We' is not because there are several gods but as a way of respect, such as saying "We have decided" or the "Royal We". As I´ve stated here, we Muslims worship one God, perfect without any fault or tiredness and most certainly without a son, may he be exalted far above what they say about him, how can you expect the lord of the world to begott a son like an animal of some sort? And they say, "Be Jews or Christians, then you will be guided.'' Say, "Nay, (we follow) only the religion of Ibrahim, Hanif (Islamic Monotheism), and he was not of those who worshipped others along with Allah. [2.135] Islam rests on five pillars, 1.Testimony of faith, la ilaha illallah- there is no god (worthy to be worshipped) except Allah. 2. Prayer. 3. Zakah, obligatory charity to be distributed among the poor Muslims. 4. Fast. 5. The pilgrimage for one who can afford. These pillars are extremely important for any Muslim but good deeds are far beyond only what I´ve mentioned here It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West; but it is righteousness- to believe in Allah and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the Allah-fearing. [Baqarah 2.177] We muslim love our prophet more than our own lives because he guided us and showed us the way. M. Hart an american mathmetcian and historian wrote in his book about the 100 most influential persons in history and placed Muhammed(peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) as nr.1, I can not think of any leader as great as him, he lead a people of arabs from the dark into the light. The used to worship stones, and idols, bury their daughter and live under extreme poverty with corrupted morals but during those 23 years he was a prophet (he became prophet at the age of 40) the whole arabic peninsula had embraced islam and around 80 years after his death it had reached boarders wich took christianity hundreds of years to accomplish, why one may ask one self? Because he had brought the justice, peace and a mercy people during those days had longed for. "Alif Laam Raa. A book which we have revealed to you (Muhammad) so that you may lead the people from out of the darknesses into the light by their Lord's leave to the path of the All-Mighty, the Praiseworthy."[Quran 14.1] He had given women and children rights which was not present in any place of the world at the time and at this very time as I would like to claim. The rights of owning and disposing wealth, rejecting a marriage proposal, divorce at certain situation and a right upon the man to treat her well. 2.228: And they (women) have rights (over their husbands as regards living expenses) similar (to those of their husbands) over them (as regards obedience and respect) to what is reasonable 9.71: The Believers, men and women, are protectors one of another... 4.19: O you who believe! You are not permitted to inherit women against their will, nor to prevent them from marriage in order to get part of (the dowry) what you have given them, unless they commit open Fahishah(adultury). And live with them honorably. If you dislike them, it may be that you dislike a thing and Allah brings through it a great deal of good. And he said in different narrations from him(hadith- not quran but statements which his companions and others collected from him) such as:"The believers who show the most perfect faith are those who have the best character and the best of you are those who are best to their wives""Let no Muslim man entertain any bad feeling against a Muslim woman. If he should dislike one quality in her, he will find another that is pleasing." And he also said: "Be kind to women." Many of these rights may not be considered very remarkable today but this was 1400 years ago, during this time women all over the world were treated like slaves, christians were debating about wether or not a women had a soul so as to determine if she could enter heaven or not, this was during the 16 century! The prophet(peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) had taught that paradise was under the feet of the mother while during this time in china women were ordered to obey their fathers then their husbands and if they are both dead finally their own sons. It is essential for a muslim to believe in the the prophets, the angels, destiny, the day of judgement and in all the scriptures including the Quran. We believe that the Bible was sent down from the lord but that it was tampered with and people mixed revelation with their own words and thus changed the whole book. We see the Quran as a light sent down to the worlds and the greatest miracle sent to our dear prophet. I'm sorry if I made this to long, I want to finish with the prophets(peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) last sermon as it was called, This sermon was delivered on the Ninth Day of Dhul Hijjah 10 A.H. in the 'Uranah valley of Mount Arafat' (in Mecca). After praising, and thanking Allah he said: "O People, lend me an attentive ear, for I know not whether after this year, I shall ever be amongst you again. Therefore listen to what I am saying to you very carefully and TAKE THESE WORDS TO THOSE WHO COULD NOT BE PRESENT HERE TODAY. O People, just as you regard this month, this day, this city as Sacred, so regard the life and property of every Muslim as a sacred trust. Return the goods entrusted to you to their rightful owners. Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you. Remember that you will indeed meet your LORD, and that HE will indeed reckon your deeds. ALLAH has forbidden you to take usury (interest), therefore all interest obligation shall henceforth be waived. Your capital, however, is yours to keep. You will neither inflict nor suffer any inequity. Allah has Judged that there shall be no interest and that all the interest due to Abbas ibn 'Abd'al Muttalib (Prophet's uncle) shall henceforth be waived... Beware of Satan, for the safety of your religion. He has lost all hope that he will ever be able to lead you astray in big things, so beware of following him in small things. O People, it is true that you have certain rights with regard to your women, but they also have rights over you. Remember that you have taken them as your wives only under Allah's trust and with His permission. If they abide by your right then to them belongs the right to be fed and clothed in kindness. Do treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers. And it is your right that they do not make friends with any one of whom you do not approve, as well as never to be unchaste. O People, listen to me in earnest, worship ALLAH, say your five daily prayers (Salah), fast during the month of Ramadan, and give your wealth in Zakat. Perform Hajj if you can afford to. All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves. Remember, one day you will appear before ALLAH and answer your deeds. So beware, do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone. O People, NO PROPHET OR APOSTLE WILL COME AFTER ME AND NO NEW FAITH WILL BE BORN. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the QURAN and my example, the SUNNAH and if you follow these you will never go astray. All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly. Be my witness, O ALLAH, that I have conveyed your message to your people". By Allaah if muslims followed the example of the prophet(peace and blessing of Allaah be upon him) they wouldn't be in this situation. Indeed in the Messenger of Allah you have a good example to follow for him who hopes in Allah and the Last Day, and remembers Allah much.[Al-Ambiya 33.21] 128. Verily, there has come unto you a Messenger from among yourselves. It grieves him that you should receive any injury or difficulty. He is eager for you; for the believers [he is] full of pity, kind, and merciful. 129. But if they turn away, say: "Allah is sufficient for me. There is no God but He, in Him I put my trust and He is the Lord of the Mighty Throne.''[last verses of Sura Tauwbah] _____________________________________________________ The quran read by Abu-Bakr Ash-Shatiri</FONT> the last chapters are the smallest. Among those I like the most are Ta-Ha nr 20 and Maryam(mary) nr 19 or hear it by other recitors.
You're either a liar or greatly mistaken. moohammed was a false prophet and a sociopath. You also have Christians and mooslums mixed up in the quote above.
disarm "This is mainly a thread for muslims, not meaning to be offensive or anything, but my main concern is that it'll get offensive so please only post if you have an informed view" what makes you think that muslims are the ones with a informed view, I know more about christianity than most christians Ive read the bible something like 32-34 times not really sure but in that region of times . and there are lots of non muslims or ex muslims who know more than the average joe muslim in the street about islam. you have people like mark gabrial who was a proffessor in islamic history in one of the top islamic universitys in the world and became a christian. I doubt you would find many people alive who knows more about islam than him, and hes a not a muslim ,and is pretty anti the religion . a informed view about something can be a negitive view ,not every religion is nice and peaceful dont believe what the government tells you
umm..ok... you kinda took me wrong there... I did not particularly want people like I encounter on forums such as christianity, who have a basic knowledge going so far as "jesus is g-ds son, he died for us and good christians go to heaven", which they repeat when they feel they should, regardless of topic. I am also aware that people not from the religion know of the religion. Hence "my main concern is that it'll get offensive so please only post if you have an informed view". This, combined with the part saying "MAINLY for muslims", basically rule out badly informed people, and people who simply want to be offensive to muslims, yet mean that I am not actually telling any group of people to eff off. I did not ask for a positive or a negative response. I wanted to know what people saw as the essence of islam. Shall I repeat- I did not ask for a positive or negative response. I did not say who I wanted to reply, but made it clear I didn't want the usual "Islam does shizz to woman und is baaaaaaad" through only asking for "informed view"s. Should you have an informed view, I would love to hear it. I would not love to hear,in this thread, about how you misinterpreted my statement, examples of people who know things, or how the government has told me that all religions are good. However, I would be interested to know how you know what the government has told me, and its relevance to this thread, should you care to explain it to me another time. So, instead of feeling I should rephrase my statement (and I apologise for making it seem discriminating), perhaps you should either give an informed view, or give your attention to another thread in which you CAN contribute
If you look sober on the whole thing, a religion is only as good as it's religious leaders. How ever much you want it to be something else, humans run the show and interpret the holy scriptures. If there's trouble, it's probably the culture/society that's causing it by colliding too heavily with an other culture/society. I don't believe in some sort of intriguing by several gods to pit humans in holy wars against each other. We are just being played by other humans, that's all. I think this happens both in the Christian and in the Muslim world, and it hasn't got a thing to do with the will of a god. I'm happy for both christians and muslims that are comfortable in their faith. Maybe they pray to the same guy, it's not impossible. A culture doesn't want to change without a fight - it lies in it's nature not to. Tolerance is the intelligent approach to make mankind work in the long run. A Little Edit: Sorry if I went a little off the topic Edit #2: The whole american "You're either with us or against us" statement crap is the worst upsetting bullshit I've heard in years. Why are they so indiscretely trying to pick a fight? That's no way to settle a matter and live in peace, it won't work at all. I hope they're not stubborn enough to nuke the problem away, that would be the day when I'd finally loose it completely and embrace insanity.
Tolerance is the real religion man, it is what drives us from darkness to light. Its so sad that today , people both in the west and in the east are forgetting this more and more each day.
being tolerant of intolerance where does that get you. in my country salman rushdie has spent nearly 20 years in hiding the vast majority of muslims supported that . recently theo van gogh was killed in holland ayaan hirshi ali is in hiding pretty much every other critic lives in fear for their life . what was the point of fighting the nazis in the last war surely we should have been more tolerant with them .
What America needs to do is take over the entire middle east and re unite the Arab empire. In the days of the umayyad and abbasid empires, Islamic culture was at its height. Also, the mid east is used to being seized by many differnt peoples throughout history, Muhammad being the first, then his sucessor caliphs. I think that this could jump start the Arabian society into one of the greatest on the planet. It would even surpass America in intellectual thought, not to metion the economical stability of the oil markets.
Well, for example my brother is extremely intolerant of me, not even intolerant just plain irrational. I am tolerant of him and it might stress me out a bit but it means he eventually calms down and i feel better about the way I handled myself. In the second world war, countries were initially tolerant of the nazis. They allowed the annexation of austria-hungary, occupied the rhineland and invaded of 2 small countries (from memory, don't quote me on that). They said if germany invades Poland, that's it and they would fight. Germany invaded poland, the powers declared war. The point of the tolerance of clearly hostile actions? The countries needed as much time as possible for their economies etc to recover before another war. Who knows, germany may have cooled down once it got its unification with Austria-Hungary. If the allies jumped into war the moment Germany did it's first hostile action, they would be on the back foot in terms of economy (sounds silly but every day counted), they would have more to answer to after the war when the countries came together and placed blame on its beginning, the relations between Russia and the allies was still questionable...things like that. The world war would assuredly ended up worse for the allies had they been intolerant of the Nazis. Generally, those who are intolerant have more power, because they can get away with it. Often tolerance is the only key to success. Should my country, for example, be intolerant of the way the USA is treating us in regards to trade, we would have no trade deal at all rather than the minor one we get, something which is brilliant for our economy.
Disarm the policy you seem to approve of was called appeasement, I wonder how history is being taught today because appeasement was about the worse policy we could have had dealing with the Nazis. If we had sent someone like bomber Harris or Churchill to see Hitler instead of chamberlain that might have stopped a war, read William shirers rise and fall of the third Reich people knew what the Nazis were before they started invading other countries. As it was we allowed Germany to rearm build up a big army take over other countries including Czech arms and steel industries. Do your grandparents have a good view of appeasement because I’ve never talked to anyone who was in the second world war who thought it worked out well. "Fighting intolerance and fighting a group of people are two different things" I don’t think that’s true in quite a lot of cases its taken killing intolerant people to stop their intolerance. The slave trade was stopped partly by exposing how evil it was and partly by killing slavers and people involved in slavery . “People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” george orwell
Slave trade stopped because government recognized the human rights of all people. Even if some individuals didn't , the government as a whole did, the intolerant attitudes toward black race however stopped when people destroyed such attitudes in most people. Martin Luther King didn't kill people, he tried to resolve this issue peacefully. Only through battling evil in our hearts can we fight evil in others. The British only left and recognized the Indian greatness only through friendship of Gandhi and the love of truth, justice and humanity that the satyagraha was based on. You might kill of all the muslims but you wouldn't stop intolerance of people as a whole because then you will be the part of the intolerant group after you killed them. Americans attacked Iraq thinking that Saddam is intolerant, but now this has made them intolerant and now many crimes are committed by the American troops in Iraq. So, fighting and violence will only breed more violence and hate. We can stop intolerance and hate only by changing the very consciousness of people. the way you change is through understanding, appreciation and love. The place you begin this with , is our own hearts, our own families and our own communities. A very powerful teacher of vedanta named chinmayananda explains that the only way you change the community as a whole is possible when each individual changes himself/herself first. The real evil is dwelling in our own hearts, when we kill that evil, then we can live in peace.
Sorry I just saw this. Firstly, why on earth do you think churchill would have stopped a war?! And of course people knew what was happening in germany, I don't see the relevance of either of these comments. For another, not that I see my grandparents views of appeasement as relevant either; my grandfather was one of the team who created the a-bomb (Ralph Dawton) talking to him about the war was never a good idea, his wife died so I don't know her view, my grandparents on the other side agree with me- my grandmother assisted in organising ships for britains navy, I know every day counted there, and my grandfather talked to me about my grandmother's actions and helped me form my view on WWII. "we allowed Germany to rearm build up a big army take over other countries including Czech arms and steel industries" We also rearmed and strengthened our industries. Granted, we didn't take any countries over, but if you would care to read up on the boycotts and actions of the workers in lorraine (was it lorraine? The french state germany claimed but never got which it invaded yaddayaddayadda) then you'll understand just how charming and helpful the invaded countries were in strengthening. Had you read up on germany's issue of fighting a war on two fronts, and the effects of appeasement there, you would see another a problem with your view. Consider my comments on relations with Russia also.
