There are good ones. But anyone who stops growing becomes a useless leech on society. No matter their stature or station.
Two Cents I'm 55, my Father is 30 years older. Both of us being "older" the two of us are the people the OP is talking about. He's Conservative, falls for the Faux News spiel sometimes, more than I would like. I'm more of a liberal/middle of the road guy and I get my news elsewhere as I don't watch TV media. It took him quite some time to actually realize that the workforce situation was very different now, then it was when he worked his way from fixing/updating mechanical drawings, just out of collage, to being a top mechanical engineer well known in his field. The "system" worked for him, it really didn't for any of his children. (Myself and 3 sisters) He's still unsure that the Banks/Corporations are actually "running" the country, but he's seeing cracks in the political system when I point them out in conversation. He knows there is influence from corporations, but probably not the depth it has gotten to. This will take time, just like the above example. Same thing with the occupy movement, Right now he's probably believing more on the Faux News side than seeing it in reality. We've had conversations about it but not recently. He still doesn't "get it" and seeing it only through the media he is only going to see more "damage cause by unruly kids" than the peaceful movement it is supposed to be. He's always going to believe that when a cop tells you to leave... You leave. You don't throw things back, you don't defy orders. Protesting that way he'll never understand. That's what he grew up with, in that situation that's what you did, leave. Many of his generation were raised thinking this way. A few were not raised this way. I grew up in the 60's/70's. My views are different about these examples mentioned above. Many in my generation still believe in the "system", some don't. Some would protest, some can't, because they are locked into the "system". (family/job/house/kids in collage/debt/whatever life) Some are Conservative some are Liberal, some are somewhere in the middle. This mix in my generation is going to have some believing in "Occupy" and some dead set against it. More so than my Father's generation which went to WW II, didn't support the "hippie" movement, and doesn't understand "Occupy" at all. This caustic split in beliefs between generations and those withing any particular generation is causing more harm than good right now in the US, and across the world. And....... the "split" seems to be getting wider. Does my Father see a generation of "entitled kids"? Yes, I do too. You have to admit there are a lot of "entitled people" out there, some older, some in the OP's generation. Do either of us think it is everybody in that/those generations? No Main point... (yes there is one) No matter which generation/race/creed you are talking about you can never say "IT'S ALL OF THEM!" It may be some of "them", it may even be a majority of "them"... One can NEVER say it's ALL. When you do, you become part of the problem, not part of the cure. *steps off soapbox, picks it up, and moves it to the corner*
That's pretty much every adult today that disagrees with the occupy movement and thinks we are the entitlement generation. does not equal every adult has a problem That's pretty much every adult today that disagrees with the occupy movement and thinks we are the entitlement generation. does equal every adult that does have a problem is guilty of the previous sentence ie. ignorant of there own situation. I'd like to know what entitlements this generation has and what is available that wasn't available to previous generations? It would be nice if people could try and use facts about the time periods instead of reacting with hurt feelings over an inaccurate perception of a slight. Here I'll star- entitlements equal - welfare, food stamps, social security, medicare, public education my generation is a very small percent of the users of these programs, some of them (social security and medicare) aren't available to us, our public education is worse than previous generations got and the buying power to afford it is higher than previous generations had to pay, so please enlighten me where are we entitled? previous generations that now hold positions of influence (people born between 1950 -1980) grew up in a country that was number 1 in the world in almost every important category, education was cheaper, corporate taxes were higher, the wealth gap was lower, middle class jobs were abundant and required less education to get them. So where does the older generation get off calling anyone entitled? a person in this country lives in a society, not a vacuum, when the country is doing well everyone reaps the benefits, no one does anything by themselves, and when the country does poorly people struggle, but the people who have not established themselves and built a network yet struggle more. I don't want to talk about young vs old, I want to talk about the older people that enjoyed privalages but now want to pretend they didn't. Also why everyone is so quick to believe the nonsense lables thrown out like "entitled" when it has no basis in fact and comes from a generation that has no right to make any such claim?
FLASHBACK! "NEVER TRUST ANYONE OVER 30" That phrase was uttered a lot more than 30 years ago, so anyone who believed it then has either changed their mind, or....? As you grow older you become frustrated with failed attempts to make the world a better place, and some do give up trying, but some of us never give up, we just realize change will come slowly if it comes at all. So be patient and keep fighting the good fight.
Having "grown up" in the 40s-50s(Graduated in '57) ,it's obvious that we had it much,much better than you youngin's today. Anyone that's been around here for awhile knows how I feel about the government(corporate takeover of the government)the right-wing poiticians and the state of this country as it stands. I want socialized medicine,socialized education and I'm definately for the Occupy movement. So --ALL or EVERY of anything is not a good way to frame your opinion. So settle down ,pal and talk to a few more old fuckers like me. You may be surprised. And by the way--who the fuck WANTS to grow up?
Thats the thing most people forget. Of course when someone is telling "all" in such contex it should be understood as "most". There are always exceptions. The other thing is, it might be hard to see the topic objectively, when you saw only one side.
Heres the way I see it. The OP comes here with only a few posts under his belt and proceeds to make potential enemies of his allies. The old hippie thing should have been a clue that a lot of us seniors here are not really mainstream or right wing thinkers. Most of us are thinkers though and we agree that it's a tough time. Many of us have kids whom we're concerned for. The rhetoric of entitlement gets in the way of the discussion. I want to see a healthy nation, a healthy population and thats gonna mean across generations people will be able to live with dignity. Like Scratcho I want "socialized" medicine and education. The bullshit of letting private enterprise handle those things is crazy. Big business has shown me exactly what they are about...shoveling money to a handful of rich old white men. Thats fucked up. Those old bastards are the one's who facilitate the division between race, generation, ethnicity and anywhere else they can drive wedges in. As long as we fight each other instead of looking at the real culprits they are safe. So Fitch3K maybe it would be more productive to find allies in common cause rather than alienate folks who have been battling the system years before your birth. There once was this crazy concept of respect elders. Unfortunately some elders are not worthy of respect. Equally that goes for all ages and populations. It takes some critical thinking to decide who is a friend and who aims to harm you. Maybe you could take your film making/writing aspirations and discover the variety in people with a common cause instead of aribtrarily lumping all elders together as "the enemy".
Some of these, my Fathers generation did not have when they were growing up, they were added later. Yes, he has Medicare now and Social Security now, but the programs were not there for his parents nor him when he was a child/teen so his generation never had it ingranied that they would be there, as a child of my generation and later did. Nobody that grew up in the Great Depression had food stamps for example. So they grew up having a different mind set, even if they may have gotten such things later in life. Maybe some of your generation don't use these programs now... But they "had better well be there when I need them" is an entitlement that was not in my Father's radar when he was your age. Not sure I agree with your education assessment. My education was crap, it has become better since I was a child/teen/young adult... especially high school/college. My Father had a better education than I and those after me had/have much more opportunity for good education. The cost? Well inflation has taken care of the cost, (greed is also involved but that's for another thread, IMO) But inflation is hitting everybody, not just college students. (by the way, some, not all, in college are there with loans and savings that their parents provided... who's taking the inflation hit there?) Wanting "free education" is one of the worst "talking points" that has come out of "Occupy" Why? I didn't have that, my Father didn't have that either... Wanting that sounds "entitled" to people of my Father's and my generation, and I cringe when I hear this coming out of an occupier's mouth. It just sounds bad... Of course the media has taken that talking point an run with it to make Occupy look bad... Believe me this does sound bad to older generations that never had this. Because many of them worked hard for what they now have... it was not given. Of course everything has changed in recent years... It's shit now, no debate from me on that point. Someone like my Father though, unless they have someone point out the differences between then and now, like the situation in the workforce I mentioned in my previous post, they would still think it's as it was the same as when they went through it... They are no longer in the workforce so how would they know. But take some one his age or slightly younger that got wiped out in 2007-2008 and had to get a job again when they had previously been retired. That person would have a different view on this job situation... Maybe they would even support Occupy. Many of them actually do. Must a 70+ year old have to sleep in a tent, in a park, for months to show support? I have seen plenty of videos that show a considerable number of older folks at Occupy events. I agree with some of this paragraph, but your assessment of "privilege" my Father may have had just because the country was doing well and now it's shyt is unbalanced... It certainly wasn't his doing that made it bad now. It's possible his ethics and those of his generation are what made it great back then and these ethics are rare these days. As far as what it's like now... this is not "new" it started breaking down in my generation, not yours. It's just worse now than it was 20 years ago, but it was already showing cracks and falling apart. (Ask a Vietnam vet about that) Is this our fault? Maybe... maybe not. It's more like it was happening in board rooms and political offices behind our backs while we were still trying to uphold that "American Dream". Shame on us for not noticing? OR... We were to hard at work struggling to get by and not be on food stamps (etc.) to notice the rug being pulled out from under our feet. Ask a 55 year old who just lost his job, maybe he will give you the answer. Again, you can not make generalizations and place a whole generation or everyone older than you as being at fault for your situation.... Some are at fault, (the 1% major players) some are on your side because the shyt effects them as much or more than it effects you... You are still young and able to work. Granted you have to find a job in a tough economy. I lucked into one in the 70's recession which by the way was no song and dance... Not everyone in my generation did easily find work when they graduated. What did I do at the time? I worked at a golf course cutting grass... I was trained to be an auto mechanic/bodyman.... That kind of job had to come later, I was not "entitled" to get a job that I was trained for immediately after graduating. This is getting long and I hope I proof read it enough to make sense... if it's confusing, Sorry... my brain is getting tired.
(To post 29)Agreed and I certainly don't think the present younger generation has any more of a sense of entitlement than any other. We took what was offered,including plentifull jobs,cheap gas(24 cents a gallon!),cheap cars (new for between 1200 and 5000),cheap housing( new for somewhere between 5 and 30 thousand and if you hustled,you could "get ahead". Never in my life did I figure the prices would reach the astronomical prices for "things" that we have now. Channel your ire (OP) toward the 1% that lets unbridled greed,avarice and dare I say--immorality--be the watchwords of their miserable existances and have let capitalism become a disease of their souls. There are many of us old suckers that see them for who they are.
Fitch....I guess 'entitlement' has a wide definition. I've never looked at it as in social programs. The following was taken from wiki, and is the sense of entitlement that I see growing more prevelant in the youth. Entitlement may also refer to the idea of an entitlement society, in which everyone receives the same or similar rewards, regardless of education, effort, and willingness to take risk[2]. I have no facts, studies, or statistics to show this. I just live everyday and see what's in front of me. I see kids throwing a fit because they don't have the latest video games on all of their 5 consoles. I overheard a conversation the other day where a kid about 10, called his mother a "selfish bitch," because he only has a half bath in his bedroom and his sister has a full bathroom in hers. The mother didn't even do anything about it. If I had a son who called his mother something like that.......fuckin kid would get his ass beat! I
Not that anyone gives a shit,but when I was young there was no TV,go carts,computers,none of the little machines everybody is walking around with,no cell phones,pagers,calculators,3 or 4 wheelers,snow or otherwise,etc,ect. We had bicycles,BB guns and ingenuity. Neither do I feel entitled to any of that crap nor do I want them. Except for this computer that allows me to make friends that I'll never see and observe how some folks make generalizations. No--I didn't walk 2 miles thru the snow to get to school!! OK--done yakkin'.
I really don't take posts like these serious unless the poster has at least 200 posts. I could rant on and on with this person, but chances are he won't be here 2 months from now for me to laugh in his face because I right.