The Old Testament

Curious to know, how many believe the so called Old Testament of their bibles are the actual word of their god, and how many believe they are bound to follow the laws their god laid down in it. Also, do you believe that those laws were changed in any manner by any future agency, making you no longer bound by the laws as laid down in the so called Old Testament.
Please be prepared for some serious discussions.


Note to Meagain: If this violates some rules, please let me know and I will delete it, or you can, if you need to. I think it is ok.

 

Ya know, I'm gonna just come out and say it.
You would get much better responses by at least having some degree of respect for other member's beliefs, right Meagain?

It is not the "so called" Old Testament, it is known as the "Old Testament"
that's the accepted common name of the document, why not use it?

Sure the topic isn't a bad one for discussion, but once again you are starting it off laden with your own bias and prejudice and expect others to want to engage you in serious and intelligent conversation.


You just don't get it, do you?

 

When the Old Testament begins with inaccuracies, such as the Earth, complete with all manner of vegetation, being created before the Sun, there should be an ah ha moment in which one comes to the conclusion that the perspective from which it was written was human.

 

I suppose the argument could be made that maybe it was like the development of a movie, the sets are made up before the cameras start rolling, that sort of thing.
Personally, I agree with you though.

What I am wondering, is how many people actually feel they are bound to the letter of the law of their god, as written in the so called "Old Testament".

 

Still Kicking...... I feel bound to the law of god,not the letter of the law of god.I do as i see/feel right without hurting others and/or this earth.My vision on religion is that people usually do what they are told and think the way they are told to.We are mature enough (spiritually) to do what feels right without having to believe what has been written years ago and changed many times by man.i think we are coming to an era of great change and for the better.Throughout the world,people are finally waking up and protesting corruption,unfairness,greed and political abuse.It might take a while but we (as a society) are going in the right direction and we will prevail......eventually. :sunny:

 

My question would be, how would you know what the law of god is, if it is not written somewhere, or part of an oral tradition? If it is an oral tradition, who has had the responsibility of assuring the accuracy of it?
If there is no written word of god that it ordained and demanded to be followed, and everyone makes up what they "feel" is the right thing to do, is that not religious anarchy?
So you would disagree, then, that the old testament is the written word of the god it purports to represent, and that you are not bound to follow it?

 

divine anarchy is the christian vision , it has motion ,
and is the essence of becoming human . god shall be
in every heart , and the Will be done . it is to become
respectful .

i have seen you do the will of god . it wasn't much to
note , but then , wasn't much asked of you and wasn't
much bother to accomodate it . you did your part .

discerning the will is most important . the law may fade
away .

when i discern the will and then act upon it ... usually i
had nothing better to do anyway , sometimes though
it gets me food when i am travelling ragged and poor .

 

Sorry, I really don't follow you. Did you want to discuss the issue this thread is about?

 

the law may fade away , i replied .

and you say :
An anarchist society would be one where the people live cooperatively,
without the force used by governments to make people do what they want.


jesus loves you .
.
.

 

I think I might possibly maybe almost understand what you are saying here. You are saying that this gods law really doesn't matter much? Since maybe people don't really relate to it anymore?

This isn't about anarchy, really, that comment about religious anarchy means that if there is no written law from this god to follow, or an oral one, then people who profess to follow this gods laws, but not any written ones, would probably be practicing religious anarchy, or, making up religious sentiments as they go along.

Please don't do the jesus loves you thing, I prefer to just discuss the topic.

 

I know you can't hear me, but what tikoo says, jesus loves you, is essential to understanding what he said as far as the law fading away.

 

it matters alot to my old ma and pa , and i would not disrespect this .
they get by ok . when we look into the future together (which is
just sitting together on the porch and looking to the east in the
evening) they get more worried than i do . i see the changes coming
natural and just right and with blessing . babylon is fallen , fallen ,
going down easy . damn the great whore . she loved insanely with her
wars and laws and nuclear deterrent and infinite prosperity .

i think the will shall prevail , and yes it is creative . itsa wild light .

and i believe i'll be care-full about old testaments . i like to sing that
Old Time Religion ...

twas good enough for old father ...
and good enough for me
twas good enough for the mother of the hills ...
and good enough for me
twas good enough for crazy horse ...
and good enough for me

 

and oh ya , why doesn't the radio evangelist and his little
church in the ozarks sacrifice goats anymore ... could
be cuz jesus so loved the goats He was the last sacrifice ?
glory!somehow , they'll explain to you there's a new covenant and
that they're not really very jewish but yay! the holy land . (also:
the town down the road really is New Jeruselem with a pretty good
hardware store)

 

glory and behold! Tikoo, I understand. :hat:

I even agree. :2thumbsup:

 

the eyes in his head see the world spinning round

But, not so sure it was good for them. They punish each other with it and as a tool to administer hardness of heart they are afraid of the reflection of their own.

I agree the will be done and that is why a cry went out for atonement.

 

If the O.T. ever was the word of God, it was long ago no longer. My first hint was the mention of "Palestine" in the O.T.: if indeed Palestine was the Roman word for that region Rome occupied & Rome first occupied it long after Moses, Abraham, & David, then the O.T. as it appears today is old scribes' refashioning of that word of God for people under Roman occupation.

Otherwise, the slow-to-anger God rap of the books from Proverbs on contravenes the God of the Pentateuch Who twice in His rage wasted the earth, smote Aaron's two sons in a fit of rage, & smote poor old Uzzah merely for tryna keep the Ark from tumbling to the ground. Would a genuine word of God be so bold as to advertise Himself as a contradiction; as fallable? Would the God that demands His people keep His commandments & testimonies argue so passionately against kings (that would likely usurp His almighty power) & then consent to kings (Saul et al.) really expect His people to keep those commandments?

Then: thruout the O.T., God threatens, among other nations, the destruction of Egypt; yet by the N.T., Egypt is readily available for Joseph & Mary to hide from the terror of Herod.

 

Facts relating to the so called old testament:


Originated with the Hebrews. The Tanakh (Hebrew: תַּנַ"ךְ‎, pronounced [taˈnaχ] or [təˈnax]; also Tenakh, Tenak, Tanach) is a name used in Judaism for the canon of the Hebrew Bible. The Tanakh is also known as the Masoretic Text or the Miqra. Source-Wikipedia


They were plagiarized by early christians who were desperate for writings to base their new found beleifs on. None of it was originally written by any person with christian beliefs, and all those writings which the christians call the “Old Testament” were written by those of the Hebrew faith.


Regardless of who wrote them, some scholars have determined that they are not a history of anyone's past:
We can now say with considerable confidence that the Bible is not a history of anyone's past.
-- Thomas L. Thompson, Professor of Old Testament at the University of Copenhagen and one of the leading biblical archaeologists in the world


So, to answer my own questions, christians did not write the so called “Old Testament”. As with virtually everything they associate with their religion, they stole it from the people who did write it, and incorporated it into their fledgling religion.
Why would they do this? Shouldn't something that is supposedly based on the “divine inspiration” of an omnipotent being be based on fact, truth, and logic? You would think so.
One theory of why this happens is that people who start new religions adapt various aspects of previous beliefs to lend credence to their own.


The questions I asked were:
“Curious to know, how many believe the so called Old Testament of their bibles are the actual word of their god, and how many believe they are bound to follow the laws their god laid down in it. Also, do you believe that those laws were changed in any manner by any future agency, making you no longer bound by the laws as laid down in the so called Old Testament. “


Apparently, those of obvious christian thought who posted here do believe that the so called Old Testament of their bible is the actual word of their god, and probably also believe they are bound to follow them. Apparently, commitment is not a big issue with christians, since so few are able to come out and declare their belief. Since the god of the “Old Testament” is a Hebrew concept, then I think it is safe to say that the christian god concept did not say any of it.


The other part pertained to an issue of whether or not the so called Old Testament was changed by someone, making christians not bound by the laws the god of those documents declared in them.
The answer, is, yes. Since the so called Old Testament is comprised of documents created by, and for Hebrews, and were adapted for use by the christians for their own purposes, then they were changed, from the Tanakh, the original Hebrew writings, to the “Old Testament” and the words and meanings changed throughout history to conform with whatever version of christianity those plagiarists of the time were attempting to coerce others into following. So, to finish answering the question, no, christians have never been obliged to follow those laws as they never applied to them in the first place.

 

Explain the Dead Sea Scrolls.

 

The Dead Sea Scrolls are a collection of 972[1] texts discovered between 1946 and 1956 that consist of biblical manuscripts from what is now known as the Hebrew Bible and extra-biblical documents found on the northwest shore of the Dead Sea, from which they derive their name. They were specifically located at Khirbet Qumran in what was then British Mandate Palestine, and since 1947, what has been known as the West Bank.
The texts are of great historical and religious significance and include the earliest known surviving copies of biblical and extra-biblical documents, as well as preserving evidence of great diversity in late Second Temple Judaism. They are written in Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, and Nabataean, mostly on parchment, but with some written on papyrus and bronze.[2] These manuscripts have been dated to various ranges between 408 BCE and 318 CE.[3] Bronze coins found on the site form a series beginning with Hyrcanus 1 (135-104 BCE) and continue without a gap until the first Jewish revolt (66–73 CE).[4] The scrolls are traditionally identified with the ancient Jewish sect called the Essenes, though some recent interpretations have challenged this association and argue that the scrolls were penned by priests in Jerusalem, Zadokites, or other unknown Jewish groups.[5][6]
The Dead Sea Scrolls are traditionally divided into three groups: "Biblical" manuscripts (copies of texts from the Hebrew Bible), which comprise roughly 40% of the identified scrolls; Other manuscripts (known documents from the Second Temple Period like Enoch, Jubilees, Tobit, Sirach, additional psalms, etc., that were not ultimately canonized in the Hebrew Bible), which comprise roughly 30% of the identified scrolls; and "Sectarian" manuscripts (previously unknown documents that shed light on the rules and beliefs of a particular group or groups within greater Judaism) like the Community Rule, War Scroll, Pesher on Habakkuk (Hebrew: פשר pesher = "Commentary"), and the Rule of the Blessing, which comprise roughly 30% of the identified scrolls.
Source: Wikipedia


I would be happy to discuss issues with you, noxiousgas, so long as we can keep them civil.

As is shown, the Dead Sea scrolls pertain to Jewish history. Who actually wrote them and how they got to where they were found appears to still be under debate.