The Law

ive had a little look around, but im hopeless with internet research on a lot of topics. ive yet to see information outlining the illegal status of individual cannabinoids. Can someone please show me where i can find information regarding this? All i can find it references to cannabis being illegal but not the specific cannabinoids within it.

 

Well, they isolated delta-9 THC and suddenly it's a compound that is "not likely to be abused", and is worthy of schedule III stadning in my country. Of course, the pharmies only make about $350 a month off every patient...

http://www.marinol.com/

Is that what you are looking for?

 

Try this link

http://www.marinol.com/benefits06.html

 

im looking for the laws. the Lawwwwssssss. lol. but thanks for trying anyway. and marinol isnt THC, its a synthetic compond thats practically the same but still different to delta-9 thc.

 

Isn't the problem with marinol that its like, 90% synthetic THC, and since there aren't all the other alkaloids to balance out all the THC people get fucked off it and have horrible experiences?

As far as cannabinoids, I have no idea... I'll google it tho, see what i find.

 

well i don't know of many sites that offer things like that, bill. and which geographic region are you concerned with? i'd assume youre more concerned with the laws in your countries, or are you more interested in understanding the draconian american laws?

at any rate, as far as the US is concerned, i'm fairly confident that on a federal level cannabis is one of the FEW substances where the ENTIRE PLANT is specifically illegal rather than the drugs it contains. for example, in the US, psilocybe cubensis mushrooms would be 100% legal at the federal level so long as they could be genetically engineered to NOT contain psilocin, psilocybin, baeocystin and all that other stuff. the mushrooms are not illegal, the drugs the mushrooms contain are illegal.

i think that the few plants actually outlawed nationally in the us are marijuana, poppy, and peyote, and then there are exceptions for poppies and peyote, but not marijuana. any preperation of marijuana is also illegal. certain STATES have different laws, and some will allow hemp to be grown, but nationally all parts of any type of cannabis plant is illegal.

 

all cannabinoids are considered schedule one in my country (if it helps). theres also a law that says all substances that look (moleculaly) similar to illegal ones are considered illegal. thats why there arent good substitutes anymore and why salvia divinorum is legal.

 

obviously not 'all cannabinoids' can be sceduled, or else the chemicals in out brain would be illegal.

and they cant say 'cannabinoids derived from cannabis' because there would be no evidence to say where you got a chemical from. and they cant say 'the cannabinoids FOUND in cannabis without giving the exact chemical atrtributes that is inherent in every cannabinoid. this would of course count as a list of chemicals, if it was a list of exact chemical atrributes.

im looking for an exact list of the chemicals which, if foudn in posession of in their , would be against the law. at the moment i dont care where it is, just one list, from anywhere, is what i would like.

-A list of scheduled chemicals which refers to cannabinoids. nothing to do with cannabis. the individual chemicals themselves. they cannot say 'the chemicals found in cannabis' because that would include plenty of chemicals found everywhere. they cant say 'psychoactive chemicals found in cannabis' because they dont even know the exact function of each of the cannabinoids.

all i want to see is the list of cannabinoids that you would be arrested for if in the possession of. ive never seen one list, i just want to see at least one first.

 

there already ARE A number of endogenous drugs that are illegal, schedule I substances in the united states. witness GHB and DMT...

i think you overestimate the integrity and intelligence of our legislators.

law makers and other politicians are almost NEVER doctors or scientists, they're normal people who have been trained in politics and law....in other words, they're trained to manipulate the system to their advantage and to act in a way that will please the majority of voters, they are in it for themselves and do not make laws based on what makes sense to the people that are actually knowledgable about some topics, they make laws to please or protect the masses, and the masses elect them. the masses are stupid, and the politicians certainly don't feel a need to be well versed in science or medicine, or to know the least bit about drugs other than that if you get high off a drug or it has negative consequences in a certain percentage of patients, it's obviously evil and needs to be illegal...

 

i read this thread. and i am confused.

 

ah yes i had forgotten about this.

at any rate, any specific info would be good. ive seen none. none at all. i feel violated. someone! show me the law that tells me which individual chemicals i can get arrested for, for carrying!

 

though.. how do they prevent a loophole with those drugs? i mean, unless the law specified how much your allowed to have (which i dont believe it does for GHB and DMT?), would that mean you cant get busted if you ingested the chemicals? how does the law distinguish between endogenous and foreign chemicals?

 

it doesnt. if you ingest it from an exogenous source, that source is illegal, but its not illegal to have the endogenous chemicals in your body in the amounts that you normally would anyway, afaik they can't even test for anything more than very, very trace amounts of DMT anyway because the MAO in your body destroys it very rapidly. i dont know about GHB.....

some places have a law regarding "drug abuse" and its a charge cops tack on to other things. for example, in my town if youre caught with a resinated pipe but no cannabis, you're not likely to get charged with drug possession, but you'll get charged with possession of paraphernelia (the pipe with resin indicates it's drug paraphernelia rather than a tobacco product) and with drug abuse (the fact that it's resinated shows you've been using drugs, so the resin in turn gets you TWO charges unless you can somehow PROVE the pipe isn't yours)

if you are caught with a container of DMT or GHB, you'll be prosecuted for possession. if it's made within your body youve committed no crime unless you find a way to extract the GHB or DMT from your body and use it later as a drug, which is a rediculous idea. it would be nearly impossible to PROVE someone has, in the past, used (specifically) GHB or DMT, so its unlikely that drug abuse charges would be involved with these drugs, unless you are caught in the middle of the process of ingesting said substances, and there is some left over which can be definitively identified as GHB or DMT.

like i said, though, american laws will differ from australian laws, and i doubt knowing ours will do you much good. our government doesnt exactly go out of its way to tell us the specifics, though. even government websites rarely offer a word for word documentation of the law. the government just tells you not to do drugs and which you can't have.

according to the law, as far as i understand it, cannabis and any preparation of cannabis is illegal, not the cannabinoids themselves. the seeds, the stems, ALL of the plant, including ALL of the cannabinoids therein. any isolated, extracted THC or other cannabinoids will be considered a preperation of cannabis. any synthetic cannabinoids would probably either be illegal as drug analogs (and thus treated the same as the drug itself) or would fall under the jurisdiction of laws regarding medicine (same as you can't make dextromethorphan, pseudoephedrine, or acetominophen for human consumption without the proper licenses and would go to jail and be fined if you were caught doing so)

but as far as i know, i've never seen a list of specifically outlawed cannabinoids. it may exist, it may not, but just the way the law is structured they are all effectively illegal anyway, even if they aren't specifically named. there are lots of loopholes in the law so they can prosecute you for just about anything under the sun. in other words, if you're looking to find a LEGAL cannabinoid that can be manufactured and used on humans for recreational purposes without negative legal consequences, forget it if you're in the USA.

 

while you can't be prosecuted for the presence of the endogenous drugs, there is no distinction legally because GHB is GHB and DMT is DMT, the drug is still illegal even if you aren't prosecuted for producing it in the body

 

im not asking this question for practical reasons, im asking it in order to resolve a curiosity. i see an inconsistency, and i wont be settled until i know how it is dealt with. theres a whole internet! how can this matter be so obscure?

as for finding dmt of ghb in your body, how does the law distinguish between what is meant to be there and what is not?

not that i dont take your word for it nesta, but im sure you can understand that it is an actual official statement that is what matters here.

i mean, is hemp oil illegal? or hemp fibre? i dont believe so. you can buy rolling papers legally made from hemp. it cant really be the 'whole plant' that is illegal, unless it is the 'whole plant' that is found. i mean if there is no evidence to say something has come from cannabis besides the fact that it is found in cannabis, then pretty much every plant, or even every organism, would be therefor illegal. i just wanna see the laws in writing that obviously clear this discrepancy up

 

in some interpretations of the law, yes, all hemp products ARE illegal in ALL of the US! there has been a good deal of precedent set indicating that federal law overrides all state laws, and if there is a conflict between the two, the federal law rules. however, someone has to WANT to prosecute you for it. a few years ago, the federal government started cracking down on food containing hemp seed and products such as shampoo and soap containing hemp seed oil. however, most of them realized its futile nitpicking and these things are nonissues, and where a few years ago it looked like even hemp clothing may be attacked next, it now has gone back to the state of affairs wherein we can purchase hemp seed food and things like that.

growing any manner of marijuana is illegal on a federal level, yet state governments may say differently for their citizens. in california and some other states you're allowed to grow pot if you have certain permits for medical reasons, yet if the federal government really wanted to they could still come in and bust the grandma down the street trying to ease her chemotherapy side effects. some states even allow farmers to grow industrial hemp, and while technically illegal on a federal level, the federal government rarely interferes with this practice, even though its not a very widespread practice.

i've taken several classes in high school such as AP US Government and a law class, and some social sciences classes in college, and i can tell you i still am pretty far from understanding how the system works as a whole, and i would be willing to wager even a number of our politicians don't REALLY know EVERYTHING about how these laws work out in practice.

even if you know the letter of the law, and even if you know the spirit of the law, it is very different from knowing the REALITY and ACTION of the law, as far as the US is concerned!

 

and most hemp rolling papers and such that are legal to buy in the us are actually made from hemp grown in foreign countries, if the final products themselves are not made there as well. very little hemp is grown in the us, and few hemp products are found outside healthfood stores and headshops. the whole plant is illegal, yet certain hemp products are tolerated by the government.

 

i was wrong, all tetrahydrocannabinoids are schedule one, but not neccessarily all cannabinoids.

 

i fuckin hope australias federal/state system isnt that fucked up. i mean, i knew about the whole feds being able to overule state laws but i didnt know that included all the hemp pruducts that you can buy.

could the federal government arrest a state government for making those laws? it would obviously be a rather drastic move that woudl probably never happen but is it possible? i mean say could the fed govt arrest teh californian state government for something like being an 'associate in trafficing' of marijuana or soemthing, by actively giving permits that allow it? or is there some constitution or something which dissalows that?

 

no, the entire body of government of the state of california (which would include [at LEAST] dozens of legislators and bureacrats and such, as well as the governor and everyone who works for him, etc.) will not be arrested for such things, but i'm sure if the situation becomes tense enough the state government could be penalized in some way. i'm not sure how, though. i think usually the state and federal government simply work seperate of each other, and if there is a conflict the state simply has to defer to the federal government. for example, a number of cannabis farms and clubs licensed by california and used only by people with medical needs have been raided by the federal government, not even so much because they honestly feel they shouldnt be allowed to have medical marijuana, but because they are flaunting the fact that they are ignoring federal laws in favor of state laws. george w. bush said before the 2000 election that he thought medical marijuana should be a states' rights issue (meaning it should be state by state, not a federal decision) however he is not a legislator and has no power to change the laws, so as long as the law says federally marijuana is schedule I with no recognized medical use or safety, he is obligated to sit by quietly and support the DEA as they conduct such raids.

however, individual doctors or distributors of medical marijuana may well be prosecuted and incarcerated by the federal government for their behavior, but the government and lawmakers themselves are not going to be in trouble for not making medical marijuana illegal. it just means that it largely goes unpunished, but if they care to the federal government can make busts. usually its only done for show, or in the case of very large operations.