The Just War. Myth or Fact?

Is there justice in going to war?

Can there be such a thing as a just war?

Your thoughts please, and feel free to answer the poll question! I hope this conversation will be a good one!

 

All wars are hell, and all wars are terrible, but to get Machiavellian, there are wars where the means justifies the end.

 

How might one measure the justifications for going to war?

 

That is a hard question, and the fact is there is no set answer, and everyone will always have different opinions. I'll use WW2 as the example, but not in the general sense, September 3rd, 1939, when Britain and France declared war on Germany. Britain and France had given someone they knew was a terrible dictator as many conesions as humanly possible to avoid Europe plunging into war again, but the invasion of Poland was the "no" line, no more shit will be taken, no more countries and entire peoples taken over. It had got to the point where it was obvious the only thing that would stop Hitler was with armed force.

The Korean war too I think qualifies as just, North Korea unilaterally invaded South Korea.

The American civil war, to keep a country together I think is a just cause.

On the flip side of American wars, the American revolution, while the colonialists I would argue were politically in the right in their own minds, I wouldn't call it a "just" war, political revolution yes, for the benefit of a possible nation? Yes. Just and noble? Eh, maybe just in American textbooks, Britain while being a dick at the time was not massacring women and children left and right.

Saying what is "just" though is hard, it all goes by personal opinion. Like for example so many people who were against Vietnam, given the example I just posted with the revolution would argue that was a "just" war.

Though a few may pull the "remember the founding fathers were just a bunch of rich, white slave owners who didn't want to pay their taxes" train of thought.

 

Myth. Loss of innocent life is never just, but to limit loss here's a possible guidline for defense.


* the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;
* all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;
* there must be serious prospects of success;
* the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.

 

This exact thing happened in WW1 which lead to WW2

 

I believe wars are sometimes a necessary evil, but even when necessary they are still an evil.

 

Well isn't that curious....

You claim that wwII was Just because germany invaded poland...

That happened in september of 1939... your country didn't join the war until over two years later. So if it was such a just thing, why did your country wait until it was a personal thing to them?

As for the general principal of there being any JUST war, as you already know, I don't believe there is such a thing. The most people who die in EVERY war, are civilians who want nothing more then to live their lives in peace. Where is the justice in that?

Once the war is over, then the survivors have to spend decades re-building just to get back to where they were before. Where is the justice in that?

How about we forget the people and just look at the planet... millions of acres of land destroyed and poisoned in the name of your justice...

War is not justice, war is killing and destruction.

To be really clear... this is not to say that sometimes war isn't necessary, but that in no way makes it JUST....

 

So it would've been okay for us to ignore the attack on Pearl Harbor, forget about our allies in Europe, and stay out of WWII altogether? Germany, Japan and Italy were unjust; our responses were not.

 

Once again, if you don't have the ability to read what is written, don't waste my time.

I never once said it should have been ignored, in fact, I even quite clearly stated;

 

Oh sorry I forgot how to read for a second. You said that in no way makes it just. I say you're delusional. Just wars exist. They are rare, but they happen.

 

HOLY fuck with the America bashing. Fine, EUROPE'S 1939 WAR BEGAN IN SEPTEMBER 1939

We waited because we were tired of fighting Europe's wars. Remember, America is the destructor during WW2, probably good we waited 2 years. Sorry, we thought a few countries together against Germany wouldn't result in the whole European continent near falling, guess goes to show who's really the only good fighting force out there. Good thing is we learned and now we're very pre-emptive on who we invade.

Jesus damned if you don't, damned if you do. So let's just do. My fellow Americans, I've just signed legislation outlawing Canada, we begin bombing in 5 minutes.

God we were attacked by Japan, you'd be complaining now if America took a "Japan first" strategy and left Europe to fall under Soviet influence. You'd be complaining America was sticking its nose in foreign affairs and was trying to secure it's influence had we actually gone to war in 1939.

 

Most wars are unnecessary, but I believe if a war is just that makes it necessary, and vice versa. How could a necessary war not be just?

 

So you consider killing civilians, women, kids, elderly and destroying the land to be a just thing...

 

Your intelligence is showing again. I so wish you had the power to do just what you suggested...

You would quickly find out that every country in the world would line up against you.

And no, it still wouldn't be a just war...

 

Whoever started it is wrong. However it is also wrong if everyone just stands by and does nothing. Interaction is just. Collateral damage is terrible but its a fact of war and its not nearly as bad as not doing anything.

 

Normally they're hand in hand. I can think of one that's not though. Falklands. Britain's response I can call "just" in regards to being politically in the right, not really morally though. But It was necessary on their part.

 

Total agreement on that.... but that still doesn't make it just.

 

How does it not?

 

Because killing women, children and the elderly is never just.