The final solution

Why not just kill all the palestines, that way all your problems will be over.

It's not like your people don't have blood on their hands anyway. You killed all the canaans, jesubites, filisteens etc. And your god sanctioned it, so what's the problem?

 

take your anti-semitism somewhere else and what about the victims of your PLO terrorists?

http://jdstone.org/cr/files/destroyacitysaysgod.html

“DESTROY A CITY” SAYS GOD

Hugh Fogelman, et al





One of the most difficult topics in the Torah is described in Deuteronomy 13:16: the commandment to destroy the “Wayward City,” a place whose residents are devoted to worshipping idols. Today it would be almost impossible to picture such a city; since we probably imagine idolaters as normal families who just happen to worship a statue or idol instead of going to synagogue.

Part of ancient cult worship involved various sexual immoralities like public orgies, temple prostitutes, incest, bestiality and carnal molestation (Leviticus 18:27). Idolaters also were known to sacrifice children to the gods (Deuteronomy 12:31). Rabbi Akiva (2nd century CE, Israel) reported that he saw a son bind up his father and feed him to ravaging dogs in service of idols. Indeed, modern archaeologists have found mounds of children’s bones by pagan altars.

All of this is not a good foundation for the Jewish nation trying to build its home in the Holy Land of Israel. That’s why God commanded that the Wayward City be totally destroyed along with its inhabitants.

Now for the interesting part. The Talmud (Sanhedrin 71) states that the Wayward City never occurred. The case is theoretical! So why does the Torah mention such a case? The answer is, had we never known the penalty, we would never appreciate the severity of the crime.

The prohibition against idolatry is mentioned 44 times in the Torah―more than any other Mitzvah (God’s commandments/obligation). It is one of the Ten Commandments. It is one of the Six Constant Mitzvot. It is one of the Seven Laws of Noah that all non-Jews are instructed to uphold. And it is one of the Big Three Mitzvot for which a Jew is expected to give his life rather than transgress.

But what’s so wrong with idolatry in the first place? We humans have a deep desire to connect with something beyond ourselves―with the source of our existence. Idolatry is thinking that anything other than God is that source. For some, it could be the sense that money will bring ultimate happiness. For others, it could be the allure of power, love, or materialism. The danger is that a society without God at its center will likely crumble. Without shared values and a deep commitment to the divine spark in every human being, there is little glue holding society together. Particularly for the Jewish nation committed to a utopian ideal of world peace; idolatry is an unacceptable element of society.

If Jews are so committed to peace, how is it that the Torah can also command the destruction of the Wayward City―even in theory? Sometimes war is necessary. Torah teaches that while the supreme value is life, we are not pacifists. Wiping out evil is also part of justice. Dangerous disputes must be resolved, because if you choose to leave evil alone it will eventually attack you (Rashi, Deuteronomy 20:12).

It is ironic that the Torah, which introduced to the world the concept of the sanctity of life, is now criticized as being “cruel” by today’s Western civilizations that are built on the Jewish moral foundation! People today can only criticize ancient Hebrews because those very Hebrews taught them that murder, conquest, and abuse are wrong and immoral. The values such as respect of life, freedom, and brotherhood, all stem from Torah, Judaism.

The mindset that wiping out a city is “immoral” exists because Jews taught that to the world! People today don’t relate to the concept that if you don’t destroy evil, it will destroy you. Today, most Westerners grow up in quiet neighborhoods, and never experience war, persecution and racism. So it’s easy to rationalize peace and brotherhood at the expense of defense. There is a well-known joke that defines a liberal as “a conservative who has never been mugged.” Questioning the ancient Hebrews’ sense of justice and morality is not really fair if you have not dealt with harsh reality of their experience.

People mistakenly think that the Torah’s directive was to wipe out the Canaanites indiscriminately, in a cruel fashion. In truth, the Jews would have preferred that the nations never deserved punishment. That’s why the Canaanites were given many chances to accept peace terms. Even though abominable inhuman practice had been indoctrinated into the Canaanite psyche, the hope was that they would change and accept the seven universal laws of humanity. These “Laws of Noah” are basic to any functioning society:

· Do not murder.

· Do not steal.

· Do not worship false gods.

· Do not be sexually immoral.

· Do not eat the limb of an animal before it is killed.

· Do not curse God.

· Set up courts and bring offenders to justice.

At the root of these laws is the vital concept that there is a God Who created each and every person in His image, and that each person is dear to the Almighty and must be respected accordingly. These seven laws are the pillars of human civilization. They are the factors, which distinguish a city of humans from a jungle of wild animals.

Even as the Jews drew close to battle, they were commanded to act with mercy, as the Torah states, “When approaching a town to attack it, first offer them peace.” (Deut. 20:10) For example, before entering the Land of Israel, Joshua wrote three letters to the Canaanite nations. The first letter said, “Anyone who wants to leave Israel has permission to leave.” If they refused, a second letter said, “Whoever wants to make peace, can make peace.” If they again refused, a final letter warned, “Whoever wants to fight, get ready to fight.” Upon receiving these letters, only one of the Canaanite nations, the Girgashites, heeded the call and settled peacefully.

In the event that the Canaanite nations chose not to make a treaty, the Jewish people were still commanded to fight mercifully! For example, when besieging a city to conquer it, the Jews never surrounded it on all four sides. This way, one side was always left open to allow for anyone who wanted to escape. It is interesting that throughout Jewish history, waging war has always been a tremendous personal and national ordeal, which ran contrary to the Jews’ peace-loving nature.

At various stages throughout the 40-year trek in the desert, Moses was forced to reprimand the Jews for having the fear of war. He inspires them with various pep talks, and assurances of victory. The reality is that war makes one callous and cruel. Therefore, since God Himself commanded the Jews to rid the land of evil, God likewise promised the soldiers that they would retain their compassionate nature. In the words of our weekly Torah reading: “God will have compassion on you, and reverse any display of anger that might have existed” (Deuteronomy 13:1.

Waging war with enthusiasm has always been a Jewish test. King Saul lost his kingdom when he showed misplaced mercy by allowing the Amalekite king to live. And in modern times, when Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir was asked if she could forgive Egypt for killing Israeli soldiers, she replied, “It is more difficult for me to forgive Egypt for making us kill their soldiers.”

So what does this all mean for us today? Without a Jewish king or Sanhedrin, these laws of warfare do not technically apply. But there is still a lesson to be learned. The severity of idolatry is emphasized by the fact that the most extreme punishment in Judaism is reserved for a Maisit―someone who promotes and convinces others to follow idolatry. As described in Torah, this person is actively involved in eroding values at the core, and there is no greater threat to society. (See Deuteronomy 13:7-12)

From here we can extrapolate: The greatest reward is reserved for someone who does the opposite of a Maisit―someone who actively brings Jews close to their Jewish heritage. King David says: “Turn away from evil and do good, seek peace and pursue it” (Psalms 34:15). One effective method of turning away evil is to “do good.” We live in unique times. The world is filled with tension and strife. The goodness is frequently there, bubbling under the surface. Let’s think positive.

Let’s think about what we can do to eliminate the evil―by overwhelming it with good

 

Didn't your prophets say God commanded you to kill all men, women, children, cattle and all? I think so.

I'm not anti-semetic. I'm pro-Israeli. I just wonder why you don't kill all the palestines, since your God allows such things to preserve the jewish nation. Kill them and your problems are solved.

I mean, you claim to be loving people, if thats't the case then why not try to win the hearts of palestines without retaliation and revenge? Every time there is a terror act the airforce, army etc is on the move and the palestines end up hating you anyway.

If the palestines are incapable of changing, then kill them. Simple.

 

Hey... look! Someone saw an episode of the History cannel and thinks that he is smart!

 

It seems you are banned but you can probably still read this. You are an idiot who doesn't know his facts. If you knew the true relationship between the Jews and the Palestenians you would not be saying any of this.

 

the best jews are the modern american jew who hardly got time to read the torah those are the best jews. same thing for christians and muslims . in a few more years lets hope they all forget that stupid book regardless of whos version it is.

 

You seem to know nothing about the Jewish religion. Torah often applies to all texts connected to Torah, meaning all Jewish religious texts be they commentary, midrash, mystical texts, you name it. It's not simply about one book. Also, The Torah in Judaism is accompanied by the Oral Torah so it's not just about one version.

Your brazen atheism would look less silly if you knew what you were talking about. As of now, you're just shouting names at people you can barely see through the fog.

Dauer

 

True Judaism opposes Zionism. Jews, Muslims and Christians can live in peace in Palestine, for example, after the Christian Spaniards completly took over spain (ending the Jewish Golden Age under Moorish rule) many of the Jews left (or were forced out of) spain and went to Palestine, which was under Ottoman rule. The Jews got along splendidly with their Christian and Muslim neighbours, and there was peace in the region (more or less) until European Imperialism reached the sands of Palestine in the first world war. Of course, then one thing led to another, now the region is a complete war-torn mess. What is Zionism? It is, to be blunt, a specific term for what could be otherwise known as Imperialism. It has alot of racial and religious undertones (madonna cant be an Israeli because of this) which is scary. I am an anti-zionist, I am not an anti-semite, the two terms are completely unrelated.

Anti-Zionism reffers to the opposition to Israel's imperialistic terror tactics agains the indeginous arab populace. I am a Canadian involved with Native Studies at my university, I am full aware of the consequences of imperialistic terror against indeginous peoples. I oppose this for humanitarian and anti-racist reasons.

Anti-Semitism is a misleading term. Jews are not the only Semites by any means, yet anti-semitism reffers specifically to the hatred of Jew's in particular, although the word could aptly be applied to all the hatred of Arabs that is in ample stock nowadays. Some people who claim to be anti-zionists are using this as a decieving term for anti-semitism (neo-nazi groups say they hate zionism, but does anybody seriously believe they give a twopenny fuck about the people of Palestine?), these are not anti-zionists, and they rape the term, just like national socialism raped the word socialism. "Free Palestine" is not code for "Kill all the Jews", as I have seen many zionists claim, but rather it is a simple way of saying "stop killing all the Arabs". I am an anti-zionist, but I am not saying that all Jews should leave Palestine, as Jews have been in the region for 3000-odd years (I have heard a theory that the origional home of the Jews before they left for Egypt was actually in modern day Yemen, whether this is true or not I dont think anybody can truly say), and will allways be in the region, given that Netanyahu doesnt win the next election, start a stupid war with Iran and have both countries become nuclear wastelands. I am not even calling for the destruction of the State of Israel, what I am calling for is either one of two things.

-Israel withdraw to the borders as laid out by the UN in 1948, leave Al-Quds to be a neutral city, and let the Palestinian people achieve their fundamental right of national self-determination

or

-Let the Israeli's and Palestinians merge into one bicultural secular state, and allow all Palestinian refugee's to return to their homes. Let them live side by side as they have in the past, before racist Israeli imperialism forced the Arabs from their homeland. This is idealistic, I know, but I have to believe that the Israeli's are open to progress and will support such an idea, much like the White South Africans were the deciding factor in the death of Aparthied.

This is what I believe, criticize as you will, but let not the word "anti-semite" be typed by any of your fingers, no matter how angry, because you would be spreading lies.

www.jewsnotzionists.org
www.nkusa.org
www.jewsagainstzionism.com

 

you try to just sit back and not retaliate when a bunch of people are suicide bombing your people in front of you just because they dont wanna share. you just sit back and try to be nice when you are at the constant threat of death

 

Dont you get it? The suicide bombings dont occur because they are religious nuts who are fickle and easily persuaded to join some crazy plot. They ARE retaliation. Thousands more Palestinians have been killed than Israeli's...Indeed, dozens of Palestinian CHILDREN were murdered by the IDF BEFORE the first suicide bombing of the Al Aqsa Intifada. You make it sound way too simple, and you make the anguish of the Palestinian people out to be "Them not wanting to share". How many Israeli homes were demolished this year to make way for illegal Palestinian settlements? It isnt an issue of sharing, the issue is that they have been forcibly removed from their land, and this continues to happen with no sign of hinderance. Not only that, but the murderous IDF has a nazi-esque presence in Palestine (especially Gaza) and they have killed far FAR too many innocents to be seen as anything but the enemy of the Palestinian people. When you have your house demolished, your family killed, your possesions stolen and burnt, your olive farm uprooted, and everything taken from you, you may find that you too would be willing to give your life for somebodies idea of revenge. I am not condoning suicide bombing, I am simply explaining it. You can not expect to have a war with these people, and strike them harshly many times without being struck back. Have you ever heard L Frank Baum's beliefs on the Native Americans? If not, then I rather suggest you look them up. I would like to know one thing, if anybody is a Zionist, answe this question, what do you think about the expansion of Whites into the America's and South Africa?

 

dude, palestinions have their land, the isreali government gave them some, and palestinions and jews should both learn to share but i wasnt insulting palestinions. but i take it you are against isreal

 

They dont have their land, first off, the vast majority of Palestinians in the world live outside Palestine, with Jordan being a prime example of a nation which harbours many refugee's. Secondly, the Palestinians who live in the remnants of Palestine (Gaza and West Bank) are occupied by the IDF (which has a huge reputation for brutality and malice) and subject to colonization by tax-dodging ultra-conservative settlers, and land grabs via concrete walls. This of course is not to even mention the crippling poverty, over-population, war scarred desolation, and lack of ability to travel which plagues Palestinians.

You are right however when you say that Jews and Arabs should learn to share. But they need to be equals in order to share, and the Arabs need to feel as if they are not a minority in their own land (which they would not be if all the Palestinian refugees returned to Palestine).

One more thing, to bring religion into this conflict is like putting a fire out with gasoline. The last thing a person wants to hear is that his house was demolished because it is Gods will that somebody else lives there. God does not evict people, I dont think anything could be simpler than that statement. I know there are some good Israeli's who oppose the neoconservative zionists who unfortunatly run the country (lets all just cross our fingers that Netanyahu doesnt win), and it is really up to them to decide whether Israel will be a just state and befriend their Arab neighbours and give them what is due, or if they will continue down this fascistic tunnel which ultimately can only lead to the death of the Israeli state, after an ocean of blood is spilled on both sides.

 

maybe they an just change the name to Isrealistein and both can live in peace and both can have a place of worship on the temple mount/dome of the rock either that or I have and inkling of a feeling hindus and buddhists are amassing a great army to take over Jerusalem and to wipe out the 3 major religions........hmmmm

 

Sadly peace will never happen. I dont understand what the world expects from us. They attack us yet we have no right to attack back?

 

who do you mean by we? are you on the Jew side or palestinean?

 

either way, you have the right to react if someone attacks you

 

it is not the Jews and the Palestinians, it is the Zionists and the Palestinians. Many Jewish people (even some Israeli Jewish people) with their heads screwed on right oppose the occupation, as right they should. The Jews have bore the brunt of racist oppression for thousands of years, the fact that now the Israeli's are oppressing the fuck out of the Palestinians makes me doubt the goodness of humanity.



Again, Judaism opposes Zionism. www.jatonyc.org

 

Right, and the Arabs have the right to react to the invasion and occupation of their land. We in the west are trained to look at 9/11 as a first strike, when in fact it comes as the result of wars the Americans and their Israeli allies have been involved in with Muslim countries for years. I oppose war, and therefore I oppose 9/11, but I oppose the US/Israeli wars (Particularly their hand in the massacres of the Lebanese civil war, to which Usama himself claimed 9/11 was a response to) more, because it was those actions that made 9/11 happen. We expect that we can have a war and kill people and not even be interupted from driving our SUV's to Mcdonalds to soak more fat in our asses before we go to Wal-Mart. If we have wars, these attacks are the price of those imperialistic wars, and wuite frankly, I am less disturbbed by the terrorist actions of Muslim Fundamentalists than I am by the terrorist attacks of Israel and the US, because at least after the buildings fell, no Al Qaeda soldiers came to New York, occupied it, and made the day to day lives of the New Yorkers a living hell. That having been said, Al Qaeda and all of its members are still murdering jerks who are opposed by the vast majority of Muslims.



What is worse, having terrorist attacks, or not being an imperialist power, because the two are mutually exclusive. You want an end to suicide bombings in Haifa? well first you are going to have to take down the settlements in West Bank and pull out the soldiers from Gaza.

 

Im more worry about our own internal problems in the U.S . and it got nothing to do with terrorism or terrorists .

 

And the final solution is that day we drop dead. and sooner or later we all do.