The electorial college needs to go

A lot of lines in your statement too.

"This one does this more so they suck more". That's what I said too. I got you figured out. You are the punk rocker. Everything sucks and I am so cool I see that. The real looser pick a side. No, an American picks a side and honors what men before me did.

Sorry, if you are for Nazis, anti-science, and greed since "both sides suck" you are the problem. None of this is part of what Democracy is or even the "great again" period of the 50's and 60's that is really the goal of the Trump voter.

None of these things were acceptable then so why are they now? Taxes on the wealthy, unions, acceptance of science. All that happened when a white man did not need a college degree to own a new house and support the family of 5. None of these things are sought by a Trump voter. unions suck, college lies to you and so does science.

All these people want is that racial and sexual social order while not accepting the realities of what that means and how it happens. What matters is the economics not who shits in what bathroom or if the words "Merry Christmas" are said.

They only see the racial and social lines as you describe them that don't create any of it. They think it does and go to war with facts over their feelings.

 

You seem to be coming from the "one side is right the other is wrong" camp. I'm just not there. I think they both have potential to be right and wrong. That's where we part ways. I can't devote myself to a single party without becoming a fanatic. I'll save that kind of adoration for athletes (as if).

From politicians I expect work and I expect that work to benefit the American people. Even when some of it is devoted to people in other lands, an American tradition. I don't think the government does a passable job of social engineering, so I think they shouldn't be involved with it. There's too much potential for making things worse when the government sticks its nose into our lives. Which is why I'm not anti-abortion anymore than I'm anti-coal. Abortion is likely as old as humanity and won't be going away because some pastor says so. And coal is 300 million years old. It will wait in the ground just fine by itself.

You do make it obvious that this is a two-way street. If the polarization continues the country will fracture. It's the only logical conclusion when the sides that run the show can't agree on even the smallest of issues. However, I doubt it will be an even split. And I think the democrats will implode far ahead of the republicans. Probably around 2021.

Nazis? That's almost as humorous as the KKK "problem" we have in America. Both shored up by the media and nothing else.

 

Yes we do differ. At some point there are moral lines and you have chosen to cross them. I'm not a Democrat but if you can support what the Republican party is now you are just fundamentally an ignorant or terrible person. It's not an issue of who taxes who or what place religion has in schools. Not any one of their classic issues. It's an issue of the human rights violations and eroding of democracy for personal gain. I'm not that. Being a Republican used to different. Being independent used to be different. I guess you describe yourself as that.


If you there are 10 people at a table and one of them is a Nazi you have 10 Nazis. People say there so few of them so why does it matter? It's because they endorse the party and person they do for a reason and the policies of the Republican party are Fascist now.

It's a strong word but it's the facts. Fascism is the idea that the strong will lead the weak as nature dictates. Nazis and The Republican have the same opinions on many topics.

1. White Christian men are victims of weaker and lazy people in society. These people can not accomplish what they can since they are weak and lazy. They make excuses and hate the strong for their success.

2. The media lies and only exists to create division in society. Manufactured scandal is another way the weak as kept under control. The strong see it for what it is and know the world for themselves. Doing that you will naturly trust your leader since you can see yourself in him. He is a respected peer and source of information. He will not bull shit you. Trump voters have turned on every media source that has said anything bad about him even Fox News. Most came back but not all. Only he can be trusted and of course he's never done anything wrong ever. People just don't like him because they are jealous and weak.

3. Democracy is flawed. A "silent" or strong majority should always lead. The strong have kept society alive long enough for you to be here. Look to nature and see the pack structures. The strong takes it and the weak follow if they don't want to die. Alpha vs. beta concepts which by the way don't exist in humans as they do wolves, Off topic to this just funny junk science. So Fascism is more desirable since it will force people to be strong. What is the point of Democracy really when society is already utopian. If the debate goes forever those who lie will just use the a so free discussion to lie and deceive.

Over 50% of Trump voters have supported canceling the 2020 election on this idea in some polls. Right now The Republican party is impeding a legal process for impeachment. It would seem some are accepting the end of Democracy. We have a chance to end the debate we won.

4. All that matters is your people. Again looking at nature compassion is only shown to the family of an alpha or those who submit. Your country, your race, your religion. It's all within your natural instinct and right to protect that. It's just weird to worry so much about someone else. Like say a kid in a cage at a border. What about our hungry kids? What about the fact he was too weak to even follow the law to earn our way of life? Screw his poor choice.

This is a fundamental Republican ideal. Not to the extent of hate we see now but the core idea of no one owes you shit and I take care of my own sine life is rough. No welfare for the unemployed, no social services for poor mothers. If you want it you need to keep you legs closed and work. I can do it and so can you.

You could always loosely apply White Supremacist thinking to Republican thinking traditionally. The party is about 70% there on their goals now. The only major steps left at this point are social and racial cleansing and the censoring of the media. Civil War is being threatened if impeachment does not go well. They figure that will take care of the other 30% let's say.

 

It is not a matter of "feeling lucky". Investing in solid companies in a (more or less) free market economy has been proven over and over again to be the most successful capital creation engine humanity has yet devised. Unlike a casino, where you might go if you "feel lucky", capitalism is not a zero sum game.

WP and I are the same age, and I suspect we both are grateful the Great Recession did not wait a dozen years. But my primary source of financial wisdom, my husband (who has no real credential in the world of finance) managed to hang on to what we had (his short on Countrywide (a pathetic creation of government policies that wanted every American to own a home), even kept us from going seriously in the red. But even without that "lucky" rare (for us) short on a stock, simply holding what one had in the way of equities, and adding to it regular investments in hub's equity-oriented 401-K, would have allowed us to come out on top. I admit to being scared, thinking we could have a replay of the 1930's, where it took the Dow 12 years to recover, but disciplined investing over a lifetime does pay dividends if you live long enough to enjoy it.

The last quarter of 2018 was jarring, but ended up being a big nothing. If you cannot stomach seeing your wealth go down 20%, you should not invest in equities. As for Social Security- while I am glad in some ways it is there- it is an enormous intergenerational Ponzi scheme. We all know how Ponzi schemes end up. My grandchildren's generation, I fear, will be left holding the bag. Boomers, of which WP and I are the tail end, have no right, collectively, to demand that our children and grandchildren support us for as long as the miracles of modern medicine will allow.

Is the stock market fickle? Absolutely. That is the way life is. Sadly, that "fickleness" is exacerbated by irresponsible governments that continually run up debts that are an obligation on future generations. The piper will be paid- I think the next financial crisis may make 2008 look like a walk in the park.

 

Of course it will. And the usual blame game will go into full gear. Now of course is when blame is being established.

 

Where DO you get all these manifestos?

 

The stock market is a good bet in the long run, but as Lord Keynes observed, in the long run, we'll all be dead. It all depends on your time horizon. If you have the means to weather storms, you might survive a prolonged recession. You talk about holding what one had in the way of equities and adding on to it--betraying a level of affluence beyond the reach of many Americans. Many people don't. A person on a fixed income who is at or nearing retirement age would not be in a position to do that. Trump with his trade wars is venturing into unchartered territory. Nobody knows where this will lead, but economists who remember the Smoot-Hawley tariff don't think they're a great idea. The bull market is long in the tooth. You may think that it will last forever because you've done so well by it--which means you feel lucky. So I think WP was right in saying that G.W.'s scheme for moving over to the stock market in lieu of more conservative investments just before the Great Recession of 2008.

Yes, like the irresponsible Trump Administration and its tax cut for the rich and big corporations and budget-busting spending bill pushing the deficit to $1 trillion.How the Trump Tax Cut Is Helping to Push the Federal Deficit to $1 Trillion Trump's Federal Budget Deficit: $1 Trillion And Beyond
Oh, those "borrow and spend" Republicans.

 

I find it very difficult to have a reasoned discussion with you. You are more interested in insults than you are at reaching for the truth. Both major political parties have been financially irresponsible, but you seem interested only in Trump bashing. Democrats like Warren are endorsing things like "Medicare For All" that will only make the problem much worse.

 

this is a blatant mischaracterization of @Okiefreak's posting here. He's not namecalling, greene. He's factualizing. It's clear that you feel threatened by that which is why you're stooping to making accusations.

I don't think you're going to get very far with that. Your sensibilities seem to be offended at every turn. Perhaps next you will threaten to leave us to be heathens amongst ourselves? I don't know where I'm coming up with that one! Perhaps it's a projection of my own feelings.

And yet those on the left are called snowflakes.

No, I know you didn't say that. It's just a common smear... from the right to the left.

 

It's an inaccurate smear. To imply that the left are "snowflakes" would mean that they are all unique and different.

 

ok ok. That was funny.

 

Already, AI programs have proven better than the average doctor at diagnosing patients, and the rush to automate medicine in general cannot be underestimated. They want to replace all those expensive specialists with cheap computers, and want to replace every physician with one as well. There's a ten million dollar prize for the first medical tricorder. Universal medical care is coming whether anyone wants to pay for it or not, because medicine is one fifth of the US economy and we attract a lot of outside business. Already, just a stupid CCV camera is enough for AI to diagnose someone with skin cancer, and the US economy depends on maintaining the lead in such technologies.

Thankfully, AI is the future, because there never was any intelligent life around here. Just a bunch of idiots looking for dead horses to beat.

 

Yes, Democrats like Warren are. That's why I'd be reluctant to vote for her. That doesn't take Republicans like Trump off the hook. Behind all the blather, I se your "reasoned discussion" as a transparent mask for rationalized economic self-interest.

 

I don't know that even the most rock-ribbed Trump supporter refers to all leftists as "snowflakes". But those who need "safe spaces" when presented with ideas they disdain, and who cannot bear to have a speaker near them who expresses a different perspective, deserve to be called SNOWFLAKES. Not at all inaccurate for those tender souls.

 

I heard Hillary Clinton speaking on the TV today. She was discussing the electoral college as if it was some strange, unusual and new feature in the American electoral landscape. I always thought of Mrs. Clinton as educated qualified and experienced; to hear her speaking, she sounded damaged somehow.That iron lady projection was gone.
Did you not calculate the electoral college when considering to run for the Presidency?
I mean Hillary, it has been around for our entire political lives. Since way back when you were a Goldwater girl.
Yes, there are extra Democratic voters in the Sates of: New York and California.
Perhaps these are the extra voters who voted for Jill Stein. Green Party Candidate Stein did not commit apostasy, perhaps she knew her votes would be from extra voters in areas with Democratic supermajorities.

 

Hillary is understandably sensitive about the electoral college. Yes, it's an archaic relic that survives because it perpetuates the two party system and the prerogatives of rural states. "Calculating" the electoral college is a challenge--and what's the point? How often do you think a system that gives the person with the fewest popular votes the presidency will be tolerated?

 

The Nazi quote is from a German tour guide I had. The rest was just me elaborating on that.

To this day people say "the economy" with Hitler. And what is the one (false) Trump argument. Either he's such a heel he's good or wow look at the economy for OUR people. Hmmmm it adds up to something for a certain sort of person.

Just something people see if they bother to stop being a snarky snot.

 

I don't know what demographic is on easy street because of Trump, but it sure isn't mine!

 

It would seem those damn East coast liberals have been around a while. Perhaps it would have been better if the south won the war. They could have formed a different kind of country but instead of animals that kill you it's gun shot wounds and diesel truck fumes. Trucks that of course fly that Confederate flag driven by men who kneel for the Confederate grandfathers. America is too big and too full of crazy people.


How America Ends

The left is by no means immune to authoritarian impulses; some of the worst excesses of the 20th century were carried out by totalitarian left-wing regimes. But right-wing parties are typically composed of people who have enjoyed power and status within a society. They might include disproportionate numbers of leaders—business magnates, military officers, judges, governors—upon whose loyalty and support the government depends. If groups that traditionally have enjoyed privileged positions see a future for themselves in a more democratic society, Ziblatt finds, they will accede to it. But if “conservative forces believe that electoral politics will permanently exclude them from government, they are more likely to reject democracy outright
Ziblatt points to Germany in the 1930s, the most catastrophic collapse of a democracy in the 20th century, as evidence that the fate of democracy lies in the hands of conservatives. Where the center-right flourishes, it can defend the interests of its adherents, starving more radical movements of support. In Germany, where center-right parties faltered, “not their strength, but rather their weakness” became the driving force behind democracy’s collapse.

Of course, the most catastrophic collapse of a democracy in the 19th century took place right here in the United States, sparked by the anxieties of white voters who feared the decline of their own power within a diversifying nation.

The slaveholding South exercised disproportionate political power in the early republic. America’s first dozen presidents—excepting only those named Adams—were slaveholders. Twelve of the first 16 secretaries of state came from slave states. The South initially dominated Congress as well, buoyed by its ability to count three-fifths of the enslaved persons held as property for the purposes of apportionment.

Politics in the early republic was factious and fractious, dominated by crosscutting interests. But as Northern states formally abandoned slavery, and then embraced westward expansion, tensions rose between the states that exalted free labor and the ones whose fortunes were directly tied to slave labor, bringing sectional conflict to the fore. By the mid-19th century, demographics were clearly on the side of the free states, where the population was rapidly expanding. Immigrants surged across the Atlantic, finding jobs in Northern factories and settling on midwestern farms. By the outbreak of the Civil War, the foreign-born would form 19 percent of the population of the Northern states, but just 4 percent of the Southern population.

 

I have seen lot of disdain and overall ignorance of rural America from those who have lived in big cities their whole lives. They have no idea what is best for the rest of the country so why should they have a monopoly on decision making? It has always been the states that were the ones to determine allocations of votes, because as someone once said (don't know who originated the quote) "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner". There are ways we could improve our system while still keeping this safety in place. More states could adopt the Maine-Nebraska Method, where votes are allocated proportionally per state. It would still allow the rural areas to have their say but it would also make it so a state is not winner take all.