The Department of Positive Out of Body Possibilities

Discussion in 'Science and Technology' started by Tim Brewer, May 21, 2007.

  1. Tim Brewer

    Tim Brewer Member

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    To whom it may concern,

    I need your input on a challenge I will be doing.

    Here is what it is about:

    ----- Original Message -----From: Jeff Wagg, James Randi Educational Foundation
    To: Tim Brewer ; Alison Smith
    Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 1:52 PM
    Subject: Re: Communications

    I don't know what "advance thinking and action driven electrical thought out of body afterlife people" is or are.

    Are you saying you can make the contact buzzer work without touching it?

    Jeff Wagg

    On 5/20/07, Tim Brewer <> wrote[​IMG]ear Jeff Wagg,
    *It is not a buzzer, but a light that comes on,*and that is only because I have only tried it with a light, but I suppose you could set it up to be used with a buzzer as well, and yes, I have had it work before, I just didn't think you were concerned about past events with*my experiments, so I tried not to bring that up.Science base their input in the fact that energy can not be made, destroyed, it can only*change form, so with that being the case. I want to prove that humans after they die, do have the ability to contact us through devises like this, but it can only work if we can educate them first on this*possibility. I once watched**one of your challenges were*a man tried to prove that he could alter a compass with thought alone, I would like to think my challenge is better, just because it is based on the fact that I do not even have to be anywhere near the machine when it works the way I say it will work. I would like the opportunity to have a monitor near by, only as a way to continue to send messages to the afterlife, as instructional information only.**
    Please feel free to ask more questions if you would like.*Thank you,Tim*
    I'm not accepting anything, I just wanted to be clear on what your claim was. You may apply now, and if you meet the criteria, your claim will be accepted.

    Jeff Wagg
    Thank you Jeff Wagg,*I appreciate your help in this matter, and now I will start getting things in order to be in a position to meet the criteria, and the challenge as well.*

    Thank you,
  2. Tim Brewer

    Tim Brewer Member

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    To whom it may concern,
    Just to make sure I am on the right page with the rest of you.

    Please answer these two questions for me;

    1) why do you feel it is not possible?

    2) If it was possible to communicate with future afterlife out of body people, would you want it to happen or not, and why?

    Thank you,
  3. Tim Brewer

    Tim Brewer Member

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    To whom it may concern,

    When you think about my topic, you might want to think outside the box.

    Exactly what is 'Thinking Outside the Box'?

    Outside the Box
    Thinking outside the box requires different attributes that include:
    • Willingness to take new perspectives to day-to-day work.
    • Openness to do different things and to do things differently.
    • Focusing on the value of finding new ideas and acting on them.
    • Striving to create value in new ways.
    • Listening to others.
    • Supporting and respecting others when they come up with new ideas.

    Out-of-the box thinking requires an openness to new ways of seeing the world and a willingness to explore. Out-of-the box thinkers know that new ideas need nurturing and support. They also know that having an idea is good but acting on it is more important. Results are what count

    Thank you,

  4. Tim Brewer

    Tim Brewer Member

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    To whom it may concern,

    In the spring of 1994, Vessen Hopkins uncovered an external energy array,
    focused at specific key points outside the body. This incredible discovery
    represents the single most important breakthrough in the history of science
    and has implications that stand to unravel our greatest mystery, is there
    life after death.

    The Vehram Energy System is an external energy array comprising six
    distinct energy centers, universally arranged in a unique and independently
    verifiable configuration, yet is entirely outside the human body. The
    energy that emanates from these energy centers is commonly recognized by
    astral projection practitioners as the "vibrational surge," the escape
    energy that fuels the separation.

    The importance of this discovery to not only those who practice astral
    projection, but all of humanity, cannot be overstated. This is the key to
    one of our most mysterious phenomena, the out-of-body experience, thus
    opening the portal for all to exploring this natural ability and yet offers
    science a way to demonstrate the separate nature of consciousness by
    showing that we are indeed able to reach beyond the physical body to
    interact with this external energy array. Its properties are so unique,
    universal, and powerful, it simply cannot be dismissed as a figment of the
    imagination. The system exists for everyone and serves the same unique
    purpose, to fuel the astral body and enable consciousness to separate from
    the physical. Of particular curiosity to science is what happens when one
    makes direct contact with one of these energy centers.

    After more than 13 years of research and investigation into this ethereal
    anomally, Hopkins is making the discovery of the Vehram System known to
    all. Launching the site and requesting your help,
    Hopkins hopes to spread the word to as many as possible. Anything you can
    do to help others learn about this incredible energy source would be
    greatly appreciated.

    Anyone involved in metaphysical or other serious scientific research
    related to energy and or quantum mechanics could help by offering
    independent analysis and investigation. You may contact our research
    department by sending an email to if you are interested
    in collaboration or other projects. It is important that science have an
    opportunity to explore this completely. However, there already exist
    compelling evidence that this energy system does exist. Millions of people
    have already felt its power. Different aspects of this energy system were
    in fact discovered by different people independently of one another,
    suggesting that it exists in exactly the same universal configuration for
    each of us, outside the body. Our ability ro reach outside the body and
    independently determine the various locations prove that this energy array
    is a real manifestation, not the product of one person's illusion. If the
    energy system is real, then so is our ability to reach beyond the body.

    Anyone can see for themselves how this energy system works and examine the
    evidence for themselves. All the information can be found through the site and those interested can pick up a copy of Hopkins's new
    book, "Out-of-Body Experiences: the Vehram Energy System," which tells the
    story in length of how Hopkins stumbled onto the Vehram System and offers a
    revolutionary technique for leaving the body, based on the newly understood
    fundamentals governing this natural ability.

    Most importantly, we ask you to help spread the word. Feel free to forward
    this email to anyone you feel would be interested. Help us share the
    message through the internet, through online sites, blogs, forums, etc.
    The more people who know the more enlightened we become through the spread
    of knowledge. This is the discovery that proves life after death and the
    Vehram Energy System represents a doorway to the other side so that we may
    see and explore that realm for ourselves, here and now, in this lifetime.
    It is personal knowledge of what comes next, what is on the other side. It
    is a path to undestanding what we are, where we come from, and where we are

    Thank you for your help and support,
    Public Relations Team

    Note: This email was sent to a hand full of individuals and institutions we
    felt would be interested in receiving this correspondence. If you feel you
    have received this transmission in error, simply reply to this email with
    the word remove in the subject line and you will never receive any further
    contact from us. Thank you for your support.
    300 Sunset Dr
    Hooks, Tx. 75561

    Thank you,
  5. Tim Brewer

    Tim Brewer Member

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    To whom it may concern,

    Thank you for all your input so far on this topic, and I hope to talk to you more about it when I get back from a vacation.

    After a preacher died and went to heaven, he noticed that a New York cab driver had been awarded a higher place than he.

    "I don't understand," he complained to God. "I devoted my entire life to my congregation."

    "Our policy here in heaven is to reward results," God explained. "Now, was your congregation well attuned to you whenever you gave a sermon?"

    "Well," the minister had to admit, "some in the congregation fell asleep from time to time."

    "Exactly," said God, "and when people rode in this man's taxi, they not only stayed wake, they even prayed."

    Thank you,
  6. Tim Brewer

    Tim Brewer Member

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    This persons reply is one of the many reasons, why I feel this topic is so important.

    "I understand. I even took the time to understand because I wanted to. It is certainly in my best interest to understand because if I find myself dead and still thinking I want to know what my options are."

    It never hurts to have a back up plan before religion.

    Thank you,
  7. Tim Brewer

    Tim Brewer Member

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    To whom it may concern,

    The Department of Positive Out of Body Possibilities, now has it's own web site and forum.

    Please take the time to check it out and tell me what you think.

    Thank you,
  8. Tim Brewer

    Tim Brewer Member

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    To whom it may concern,

    From Transformer,

    As someone who has just read through this thread from start to finish in one sitting, I must say:

    My understanding of your theory thus far:

    - You have had a left brain SOBE.
    - You want to prove that the possibility of having a left brain SOBE means that human thought can exist outside the human body.
    - This includes that human consciousness or thought can exist post-death.
    - You believe that the Brain Gate machine offers a new potential way to test this.
    - You have also developed a simpler method to test this which relies on a touch sensor, and a light.
    - Based on your personal experience, you have come up with needed additional equipment to bypass what you see as obstacles (not being able to hear, not being able to read things which aren’t large and easy to read).
    - You have posted your theory in the same manner as you have here in multiple forums.
    - You believe that for someone to successfully communicate with the physical world we all know when they are not in their body, they need to believe in the possibility, and train to do it, during their physical life.
    - You are not easily deterred from your goal, truly believe in your idea, and believe that if it can be proven in a mathematical theory, the results will benefit all of mankind.

    Your communication skills are good in the sense that you can write coherently and eloquently, however you seem to be having problems putting your thoughts into a format that others can understand.

    This is something that I deal with every day working in the training field. Preparing training materials is essentially finding a way to tell someone how to do something, however the key to doing it successfully is to do it in a way that your target audience can understand and identify with. I have worked with many extremely intelligent and knowledgeable professionals who exhibit the same issue that I see with you; you understand your theory and what you are trying to prove, but fail to translate it into terms and concepts that can be clearly understood by all. You tend to over-elaborate details and advanced concepts related to your theory, when the basic concepts remain to be understood by the audience.

    In simple terms, you are failing to “dumb down” the information you are presenting, so that people can understand your basic concepts and ideas before you go onto discussing the advanced, or still uncertain parts of your idea. If my synopsis above is a good basic definition of what you have been trying to communicate all along, please feel free to use it moving forward. You should also consider how your explanations and posts compare to the synopsis I have provided and see if you can envision a way to “translate” you thoughts into similar statements moving forward.

    1) Present your overall hypothesis. Keep it simple and easy to understand. Present it in terms familiar to those who you want to inform.
    Example: Your title for the thread has a “fantastic” feel to it and leads to disbelief from the start. “Proving that human consciousness can exist outside the body” would be much simpler and to the point, and people would understand what you want to get across right from the start. This sets the tone for you to then explain in detail what you believe and how you wish to prove it. I understand that for you, this started with an SOBE, but your theory goes beyond that and the SOBE was simply a “eye opening experience”.
    2) Present your goal. Right from the start, let people know what exactly you want to prove.
    3) Present the “tools” you will use to test your theory. Explain what each tool will do, and why clearly and concisely.
    4) Explain what led you to come up with your hypothesis. A personal experience is a fine way of coming up with a theory or idea (think Newton and the apple, even if it didn’t really happen great ideas really do start in similar ways) but it shouldn’t be the primary focus of your entire communication.
    5) Present any open questions you have, or alternate possibilities you may have thought of. Once you have done the first four things, people will be ready to receive this information in the right context. This would include eventual results you might expect as a result of proving your goal.
    6) Present what you need to continue testing and working on your theory. If you are requesting assistance, detail what that entails. One of your posts mentioned great cost associated, this may scare people off. I now have the impression that anyone can help you test your theory at a basic level using a touch sensor, a light or buzzer and a large-screen TV, along with a clear understanding of what your methodology for testing is. This simple setup is definitely something people may be interested in testing, mention the Brain Gate as another “optimal” test you can see, but don’t focus so much on it as it is clearly a lofty goal.

    Again, this is just a suggestion, but hopefully you will see the value. I think you have some interesting ideas and they just need to be presented in a different manner to get a different reaction. You still won’t get everybody on your side, but you’ll more likely get some curious and interested parties.

    Please don’t get me wrong Tim, I’m not saying you’re a genius (although you could very well be) and I’m not saying you’re completely blinded and wrong. What I am saying is that you are indeed failing to accept some very real possibilities when it comes to your theory.

    Basic fact is that as others have stated, it is COMPLETELY POSSIBLE that your SOBE experience was more of a dream-like state. People CAN be influenced while dreaming, this is proven. People CAN think they are awake while dreaming, this is also proven. The truth is that despite your belief that you had a true and pure SOBE, it is entirely possible that you didn’t and were dreaming. You are convinced that it was an SOBE, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it was beyond the shadow of a doubt.

    It was not a dream, it was reality.

    That said, there is nothing wrong with you truly believing that this was an SOBE, and the theory that you have come up with as a result of it could very well prove true. As long as you insist that is absolutely was an SOBE beyond the shadow of a doubt and that “nobody can understand”, however you will fail to interest anyone who doesn’t already believe in SOBEs. If you can’t interest these people, then you will never be able to prove your theory for a theory proven only by people who already believed it to be true, will hold very little value to the scientific community. It will also prevent you from enlisting the help of people who could help you to prove (or disprove) your theory in the long run.

    It could, if it was treated like a customer service issue.

    Example: If one person gets sick eating at a restaurant, nobody really takes the time to care, and it is considered an isolated situation, maybe they were already sick from something else, but if more than one gets sick at the same time, at the same restaurant, it is considered an epidemic, and action should take place to fix the problem. We are dealing with thousand of people who have had the same experience as I, so that would make it a epidemic. We all do not need to get sick to know that there is a problem.

    This is what happened and I am pretty sure it’s exactly what happened and it was real, BUT I can’t be 100% certain until it is proven.”

    Now take this theory that you have which resulted from an experience while you are still alive, and expand it to that it can happen post-death.

    I would say first prove an SOBE can happen when someone is alive, focus on this as it is the heart of your theory and your personal experience. Once this is proven, then you can make the next step and say that if someone can exist outside their body, they can potentially exist as energy once they die in the same way. .

    You’ve covered a lot of bases (testing different sensors, etc.) but you just need to present it properly, and define an order to your theory.

    Presenting it as one big jumble of misaligned pieces just isn’t going to cut it if you truly want to see this worked on, or looked at by anyone who doesn’t already believe in SOBE thus isn’t already biased.

    Also, please read what people write carefully. It is painful to see you misinterpret sarcasm and people poking fun at you as people trying to help you. Perhaps their sarcasm and poking is indeed helping you to further develop your theory on your own, but it is important to realize whether it was their intention or not. Otherwise you will find yourself wasting a lot of energy writing to them.

    All right, that’s it. Hopefully this will help you to present your theory moving forward in a way people will be more willing to accept. I personally think your experiments sound interesting and would like to see them actually happen so that we can see what the results are.

    If you want to be taken seriously, you need to work within the scientific methodology and ensure that you do not set the results before the experiment takes place. You also need to take each step of your theory one at a time and prove it individually.

    Thank you Transformer,

    from Tim
  9. dangermoose

    dangermoose Is a daddy

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    Im confused as to the point of all this. You need some background on each post
  10. Tim Brewer

    Tim Brewer Member

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    To keep it simple what would you like to know?

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