The Camp thread merged (and we're not talking about tents!)

Hi all,
Campness Yes campness whats yer views on it? I personally think that it is a "show" that gay men have to do it to indicate they are here queer and intend to take up the rear. I also see it as an advertisement to say " Kick me shitless or ill piss you right off with this attitude" Unless someone is able to explain why its done ill persume its just a little front really.. The problem i dont get is.. Im gay im a 21 year old male in Brighton - England and... I dont mince wave hands or skip down the road with pansies in my hand.. I can see its view in panto.. But nothing else..

So whats yer views
\
Warden

 

not really a fan.

gay, straight, whatever, I wouldn't want to hang out with somone like that.

 

Psychologically, there is a distinction between "sexual orientation" and "sexual identity", the first is what you like and the second what you feel you are, regardless of whether you are a man or a woman. So, there are heteroes, gays and transsexuals.

I can understand that a gay guy thinks of himself as herself, that feels a woman. In that case transsexuality would be the reasonable choice. I can also understand that a gay guy, although feeling a man, be a bit feminine, not on purpose.

But what I can't understand, and can not stand, at all, is those gay guys that call themselves in the feminine and behave like stupids and flamboyants parodies of little girls, prancing around, shouting, far beyond a normal woman behaviour, and that yet they enjoy being men with their cocks between the legs.

What on earth is this?. Do they behave like that because they think that being gays they have to act like girls?. Do they just enjoy that by any kind of weird thing?. Do they feel girls with cocks?.

I find them ridiculous and quite damaging for the majority of normal acting gay guys.

 

The calling one another by femining terms is camp. It is actually a form of empowerment. Gay men have taken feminine terms used against us, and we have embraced them. It is not that anyone wants to be a woman, it is a form of play. By your comments, it is obvious you have not completely come to terms of what it means to be gay.

You are concerned with straight society's defination of what a man should be. We would not have the rights we have today if it wasn't for those marginal gays that you despise so much. It was the sissies, drag queens, and butch lesbians who fought the police in NYC in June 1969, giving birth to the modern Gay Movement.

For me, the term normal acting gay means "straight acting". In many cases these are members of our community who are struggling with their own internalized homophobia.

As a gay person you should understand that our community is diverse. We come in all sizes, shapes and colors. We are everyone: from the effeminate, the drag queeen, the "normal acting gay" the ultra butch, the leather daddy, etc.

If you are comfortable with who you are, the behavior of another should not concern you. If someone has a problem with the more flamboyant members of our community, that problem lies within that individual, not the flamboyant person.

Good luck on you journey to accepting all members of our community, not just the straight acting ones.

 

I think both of you are being a bit extreme. First, I agree with andrenio because queens also make me extremely uncomfortible. Queens are the most visible part of the comunity and create the stereo type that most straits have of gays. On the other hand, I try not to "hate" them because I supose they are just being them selves and acting in a way that seems natural to them, even if I can not even begin to understand their motives in acting that way.
bkcmar, you sound like you think no gay guy can be comfortable with their sexuality and act masculine. You seem to have totaly confused the ideas of sexual orientation and gender identification. Why must I act like a girl just because I am atracted to guys? No matter how comfortable I ever am with my sexuality I would still feel uncomfortable acting effeminate. Do you think that all bears are uncomfortable with their sexuality? Also, in a very real way the stereo type created by queens does effect the rest of the community, weather or not we are comfortable being gay. It is as if there were black people going around saying how much they love to eat corn bread and fried chicken and watermelon and pick cotton. That would efect all african americans weather they were comfortable with their race or not.

 

I have to run but, I'll make a quick response. I fit into the "normal acting gay category". However, I have many friends who fit into the effeminate category. By knowing them, has allowed me to view what I believe is internalized homophobia in all of us. My point is "to thy own self be true". Act how you feel is approriate for you but, do not condem the behavior of other adults.

BTW, I am black and gay and I have dealt with sterotypes all of my life. You have to learn not to give a shit about sterotypes.

 

I think I should point out that I'm not against effeminates but against queens, which are far beyond.

The word "queen" defines very well what they are and the ridiculous and extravagant way they behave. In spanish we have another word to call them that defines them quite well too, "loca", which means "crazy woman", says it all about them.

 

Well, I sorta see where you are coming from, queens tend to make me uncomfortable to. However, I have no issue with who they are or what they do, everyone should be able to be who they really are and express themselves, even though I am one of the more masculine types. There is more to being gay than just likening guys you know. Sometimes I even kinda envy them, I think they have it easier coming out. I have told some people and they didn’t believe me.

They may damage the public image of us a little bit, but I never much cared what people think of my anyway. Actually, I think a little bit of queennes is cute in a guy .

 

i find the whole thing to be annoying/unattractive/ridiculous.

call me homophobic or whatever, it's just not a person i would like to be around.

 

I agree with the whole sterotypical thing.. when the media films gay pride parades do they show "normal" guys ? NO, they show the drag queens and the overly flitty "stereotypical gay guy", this is who gays are in the eyes of the homophobes.

I work with a major homophobe who says he can "detect a gay a mile away". he has NO CLUE I'm gay.

 

Why do some people feel the need to be extremely camp and be overly effeminate? Why is there a somewhat effeminate quality attached to being gay, and a masculine quality about being lesbian? Does either sexuality really mold your character to such an opposite effect?

Personally, I hate camp guys...I despise it. Why can't they all be like Will from Will and Grace?:tongue:

 

I used to feel the same way.

Generally i'm not attracted to effiminite men, however, they can be a lot of fun to hang out with.

 

i'm very fem and I don't put it on, its just me
S

 

I don't think any of this should prevent you from having an opinion about people. I may not think that someone with a nascent accent and more skin care products than teeth is a traitor to homosexuality or whatever, but I'm not going to force myself to not find them annoying just for the sake of equality. Our prejudices as much as our choices make us who we are, and if they don't hurt anyone I don't see the problem in holding onto them. I'd find campness irritating whether the person is gay or straight, black or white, male or female even. I don't think it makes me intolerant in any way other than having preferences in terms of the type of person I spend time with.

Re: LA Matthews, I wouldn't exactly call Will from Will & Grace a pillar of masculinity.

 

ha
agreed.

 

I don't care either way. Whatever makes them happy. I'm a girly lesbian, but I don't have a problem with masculine ones. Why would I?

 

Hahaha!:tongue:

What I'm actually asking is why is campness closely associated with being gay, and being butch is associated with being lesbian? Why do they adopt the opposite gender's characteristics, and if anything, isn't being gay actually more masculine in a sexual sense?

 

Most straight guys are terrified of the idea of being penetrated. I laugh at them.

 

its all about society and its views, like theres still this idea that men aren't real men unles they're men enough to have a woman and vice-versa
S

 

I know that some people cant help it, but does it annoy you when you see/meet an extremely camp guy? It just seems so phony and insincere. I find it annoying because often these people contribute to the stupid-ass stereotypical image of a gay person and inadvertantely generate even more hatred for the gay community among already homophobic people. Even those who aren't homophobic find the whole lisp thing frustrating. But, like I said, some people cant help it. I've met guys who have had a 'gay lisp', and a really camp demeanor since they were really young before coming out when they were older, so being all lispy and 'hand floppy' isnt their fault always. I guess it seems stupid that this annoys me as it is someone else's life.

Am I just being silly or does this really piss you off too?