let me start off with introducing myself im a new member to the forums, girl 18 senior in high school. Became intrested in the sixtys era after a report my freshman year on woodstock. ive adapted the concepts of free love, freedom, peace, our earth, animal rights, etc. i dont do drugs but instead enjoy yoga. im the daughter of a dead head, love the beatles the who jimi hendrix and janis joplin. anyway, i recently joined a christian youth group and have made many friends. i do not concider myself a religious person but rather a spiritual one since i think history has proven religion in general is corrupt as in the government or any other "system". i believe in god n jesus. However, ive attened bible studies over the past few months n some of my belifs contradict those of the bible. for example free love as a rejection of marrige as social bondage, or gays/lesbians, birth control, woman are the weaker sex and should subject to their husbans (aka womans right) and the notion that we must conform others to belive and become christians (which i think represses ones freedom). so id just like to get some feedback from others whom might have simiar belifs as myself or even opposite mine. Is the bible true? how can it be? if i is then all the generation whom i admire so much are all sinners? sin is bad....what they did the summer of love, the human be-in, woman rights, the sexual revolution, woodstock communal living, freedom, diversity, that was all good. i believe the only evil in the world is violence. yes. so just some comments advice feedback on the subject of the bible is appriciated. Please feel free the enlighten me with your own views and belifs. Im open to everything. Thanks :]
I don't think religion is corrupt. Religious athorities can be corrupt. Power corrupts. I may be wrong, but I believe, that it is not right to accept a religion and start changing one's beliefs according to what that religion says. When one feels, that everything a religion stands for is right, then one should accept it. Some beliefs can be misinterprations though. I'm not a christian, but I like to go to church. I love church choirs .
You raise some good questions and concerns, of which I'm sure any free spirit investigating Christianity has had. The Bible is an interesting series of books and writings spanning several hundred years in history... Don't feel bad about some of your own beliefs contradicting what the people leading this Bible study say they should be, in fact Christianity has over 38000 denominations with disagreements on beliefs as small as whether or not it is sinful for a man to grow his hair long, to bigger things as to whether or not the creation in Genesis is literal or poetic. Being that I, myself grew up in a very conservative Christian home, and was raised on the Bible, there are things that resurged and were spawned in the hippie movement of the sixties that I have had a hard time with. (it seems we are looking at this issue from opposite ends of the window) I have found that ultimately what people who have pursued either religion or spirituality, celibacy or strictly monogamous marriage or free love, communal living or capitalistic greed; they are all looking and in some way finding for themselves some sort of fulfillment... With that, my best advice to you is to use every avenue at your disposal to find yourself and be yourself in the most fulfilling and enlightening way you can... What good is a religion or spirituality if the basis of those beliefs denies you of being who you are? At the same time, the Bible, for what it's worth does offer (in some senses) a relatively decent way to live, and if you're not up for all the headache and heartache that may be involved in putting yourself out there and really finding yourself, it's a great guide to follow to find a feeling of acceptance and meaning in life... Furthermore with the contradictions... Not only are there over 38 thousand different groups of people with contradicting views on what the Bible has to say, the Bible itself is from time to time rather contradictory... My favorite contradiction is the eye for an eye vs. turn the other cheek... Regardless, you should be encouraged to ask these types of questions, there's nothing better than a person trying to find meaning... even if you conclude that there isn't any... My only concern in raising questions like this is the possible chastisement by those who are weak minded and have no good basis in believing what they believe... Questioning the beliefs that people try to impose upon you is wise and helpful in reaching understanding, sadly there are those who see this examining as disrespectful and harmful... If you can build an open enough relationship with the leaders of this Bible study or some of the people you attend it with, feel free to raise questions as to why, be careful about those who are so narrow minded that they see questioning or dissent as threatening, as they often have been the defining factor in ultimately turning people away from otherwise beautiful religions or philosophies... Good luck to you, may you find what you are seeking. Peace
Good post LordHelmet. I agree with all of what was said. Let me add: Check for a local Unitarian Universalist church. These churches are designed to teach individuals who all have differen't views of what religion is. I've started going to the one in my town and believe it or not, we have people of may faiths. In my church we have Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Atheists, Agnostics, Pagans, Scientologists and Muslims. It's a place for free thinkers who all want to respect and learn. There's usually meditation/prayer time during the service, a book to write your thoughts in that the pastor reads out after each service, contemplating thoughts, and sermons come from many differen't texts. Try it at least once and see if it's right for you. You may be surprised just how closesly your views match theirs.
First of all, I think this is very true and important to understand: Second of all, what's in the bible should not be seen as the only truth but more as a guiding principle, just like other religious books can be (even for a christian). Keep in mind that this book is not only written by christians, but also by jewish people and different people from very different society's than ours and some of these ideas do not come purely from religious viewpoints but also from the society at that time. Nowadays christians should not live by those 2000 years and older standards in my opinion
No the bible isn't true; it's an ancient document, a product of a less enlightened age. It contains all the ignorance, prejudice, barbarity and backwardness of that age alongside its moments of great poetic insight into what it is to be human. It needs to be read critically and selectively. There are forces of social conservatism which will try to impose on you their particular interpretations of the bible; whether knowingly or unknowingly they will cherry-pick the bits they find useful in justifying their beliefs and prejudices and drop the bits which are absurd or irrelevant. But they are simply engaging in a process of socially conservative indoctrination, not giving you "the one true meaning", as they will claim. You need to stop going to christian youth groups. Their sole intention is to indoctrinate you into their creed so that you will spread their particular social agenda to others. This is the exact opposite of the "hippy" ideal; if there can be said to be such a thing, it is surely to *think for yourself*. Organised religion will deny that possibility to you.
I would like to suggest when you read the bible consider that you are an individual and that God knows you as an individual and His child. One hundred different people could read one verse out of the bible and you would have 100 different interpretations. I don't believe in religion but I do believe Jesus. I would like to recommend that you meditate on your verses and listen to what God has to say to you as an individual and as one of the body of Christ.
The bible contains moral truths, but it should not be taken literally if you want to keep your sanity. As good of a book it may be, it is just a book written by people just like you and me, people with the same questions and flaws trying to make sense of their world. There is only one world, one love so to say, but each one of us has a slightly different worldview, it allows diversity to bloom in our spiritual lives.
the way i go about is, you find something within the 'christian' base, you've found a god that with all the sadness and large baggage you carry on your shoulders are forced to let go of and let 'god' deal with them, not knowingly that the god is actually within you. when you do this, you are so enlightened and are happy knowing there is something 'more' - but this is where i find i differ, at first.. i was a christian and went to church every sunday, prayed, never swore, drank, smoked, drugs, i would never considering do such things. but, it never felt .. right. the whole 'religious' part never feels right. then i was doing the same as you, finding understanding and acceptance within things like free love and gay rights, and the part about 'men needing to be the head of the family' - that the woman must do what the man tells her to (as long as he follows the bible) and i realised within my 'christian' journey, i found god and lost religion because religion is a way of life, but not a way for my life. but god is, and it's not a bible god. not a christian god. it is the god that we are ourselves. ..i'm tired, i hope this makes sense
plus. i always think, if the whole 'bible' thing is true - then i would hope that God could see me in a light where he can understand that ..there are just so many, too many, questions out there and so much freedom that i couldn't follow a book, a set of rules, or commands. there's so much difference between believing in god and being religious and if you study the bible you find that jesus came down to earth to put an END to religion, you are allowed to make mistakes.. it's more the personal relationship you have, and you don't need to justify it to anyone else because god knows... well yeah, if the bible is true, i'd like to believe god is loving enough to see that i was a good person in all i could do, and if he can't understand that, then i don't care!!!! PLUS, the devil - i do not give permission for anybody to rule over my soul, the 'devil' has no authority to do such a thing .. i don't know, now i'm thinking about it all too much (again) and i'm coming back to the part where i say 'nah, it can't be true at all' so well. just do what you feel is right man.. and you are going to get people telling you you're going down the wrong path if you question the bible and try and put your own knowledge into understanding, rather than the bible's teachings. but i say, keep exploring.
Watch out for those religious groups that tell you what to think. They suck you in with friendship and then take over your life and you end up believing all kinds of crazy stuff.
Well, Jesus did not write the Bible and probably would have hated how Chrisitanity became insitutionalized (especially the Catholic Church). Religion is more about experiencing the divine and being a good person (all of which Jesus did and was) not about politics or controlling people. I am not Christian but I don't agree with what some lamas have suggested for people (Such as Kamapada wanting everybody regardless of any health issues to become vegetarian) nor attempts to prophetize Buddhism (Such as Sokkai Gakki or whatever its called) so it seems every religion has that problem in one extent or another.
To me, being a hippie means (in part) being aware of the divine - and of course, once aware, the seeking - or was it our unconscious seeking that led us to the divine before we had a clue about what we were looking for ... I agree with the idea of spending time at a Unitarian church. You might also look to old players/wise sayers like Joseph Campbell, Ram Dass and others. For 1000s of years people have consistently turned to faith, scripture, ritual, meditation, prayer and other religious and spiritual activities. We especially turn to these in difficult times, like sickness and death, and we turn to them in times of transitions, like birth, baptism (and other ritual cleansings/rebirths), marriage and so on. Being an old player myself and having thus seen a lot, I want to say that there are many people/organizations out for your mind. Several other posters alluded to this - but it's a long ways from just Christians out there trolling for minds. There are any number of groups that will steal your head and then your body. Remember Jim Jones? Children of God? Krsna Consciousness? Branch Davidians? So on & so forth. So yeah, be careful out there. I'm associated with two churches, both mainstream protestant - and somehow, I'm happy with both, though in at least one, conversations about, say, LSD would not go over well. To me, the Bible is a Holy book - divinely inspired in many respects. I'm a missionary for mercy.
there are contradictions in the bible itself. you know in leviticus, it says you can posses slaves, as long as they are from neighboring countries. In exodus it says you are allowed to sell your daughter into slavery. Exodus also says that if someone works on the sabbath day, he should be put to death.....theres more. but my point being, you don't need the bible to tell you what to believe. Follow your heart, do what feels right. Form beliefs and a religion that suits you! The bible is just a book, written by other humans......
the Bible is definately not a woman friendly book. at the very beginning of the story the male god not only usurps the act of birthing but as punishment for the "fall of man" this male god morphs child birth into a curse and puts woman under submission to her male counterpart. the Bible is full of nasty acts and edicts against women. the Bible was written by men for the ego benefit of men. it's a series of myths, legends and morality tales designed to justify the oppression of the female gender and other assorted atrocities (rape, slavery, torture, infantacide, genocide ect.). the Bible as with most male oriented "sacred text" is a reflection of the primate hierarchal instinct to submit to the alpha male, "God" being the ultimate alpha male and all men as superior to all women by virtue of their godlike gender. Jesus was designed to mitigate some of the cruelty and violence associated with the Hebrew god. Jesus is quite feminine is his aspects. he speaks of love and forgiveness. he is passive as he is pierced. and he bleeds, in symbolic effect, loses his virginity on the cross.
Lithium--Your post is little more than a straw man fallacy. Not all Christians are socially conservative. In fact, it has been noted that the evangelical movement in America is changing to (politically) more of a middle-of-the-road movement, as the age demographics change. Many younger evangelicals may be pro-life, but they recognize the hypocrisy of saying you're pro-life and then supporting war. They are more aware of social justice issues than their parents, and are more interested in helping people's bodies and minds, not just focusing on their souls. To the other posts...Many of the seemingly random laws and traditions of the old testament were rendered unnecessary after Jesus came, namely the ones regarding animal sacrifices, owning slaves (united in Christ, we are neither Jew nor Gentile, slave nor free, etc.) and working on the sabbath (Jesus caused controversy for healing a man on the sabbath). As for homosexuality, in my heart of hearts, I do not believe it is a sin. Lust is a sin, but that isn't exclusive to any particular group of people. However, even if it is a sin, we are all sinners, and homosexuals are to be treated no differently, so why spend so much time pointing fingers and arguing over it? Regarding gender issues, keep in mind that every noun in Hebrew has a gender, in the same way that Romance languages do. The hebrew word for "god" is considered a male noun, but this is not to say that god is literally male any more than to assume Spanish speaking people think that tables have vaginas (la mesa). In English, the only non-gendered pronoun is "it," which tends to imply an inanimate object, rather than a being of consciousness, so we went with "he" when talking about God. God has qualities of both genders, "he" is not one or the other. As to women "submitting" to their husbands... keep in mind this is not a requirement for every marriage. Many husbands are perfectly fine with their wives having equal power, and so long as both partners are happy in their marriage, this is what's really important. I see "submitting" as being a mutual action--each partner submits to the gifts of the other. If one has the gift of being a nurturing parent, and the other has a gift for managing money, than each partner should respect the gifts of the other, by allowing them to fulfill what is right for them. As every persons gifts are different, every relationship is also different. This is why you must have an ongoing relationship with God, rather than just read the Bible to look for answers. God fills in the gaps that the Bible may leave in our hearts. I guess my overall point to the OP is that ultimately, you have to find what feels right to you. If you enjoy your youth group, there is no reason to stop going because you don't agree with every single thing they believe in. Chances are, you'll never find another person you agree with 100%, let alone a whole collective group of people who do. The whole point of the Bible, imo, is not that peace will come when we all agree with it, but that we should rise above our petty differences and find Peace and Love (Hippie alert! ) amongst ourselves REGARDLESS of our particular disagreements. Christian hippies can and DO exist--I am one.
Obviously not all christians are socially conservative. However quite clearly most of the views espoused by christian movements are overwhelmingly socially conservative. Their stance on abortion, sex, homosexuality, stem cell research... I don't really need to go on. This is fairly self-evident, not a fallacy at all...
I hope no one snaps at me for saying this...but recently I've found from some sources that say the bible is pretty much a mythological personification of things in nature. Like, Jesus is the Sun and the three Kings are actually stars in the sky that line up with the Sun...but yeah I want to hear some opinions on this. I'm not sure about it. eace:CrystalRevelation
