Tavistock and the forming of the 60s

I read in here many moons ago, by Rat I'm sure (maybe some others as well) - that the 60s were formulated out of a think tank in England known as The Tavistock Institute. I could never completely wrap my mind around that, being of that generation (a tad younger by 6 or so years - but I was introduced to the hippie movement at an early age by my older brother, hence I was quite taken with it and adopted the philosophy myself, at the early age of about 11/12).

After reading a 10 part article I ran across Wednesday night by Dave McGowan, I think I can quite possibly wrap my head around this theory. Not once in the 10 parts did Mr. McGowan mention Tavistock, but as I read it, it was hard not to consider what I had read about the connection.

According to the articles, which very much blew me away - nearly all of our musical heros from that time that were based out of Laurel Canyon, CA (think Hollywood Hills area) were raised in military or military intelligence families. Next to or on military bases. Nearly ALL of them! How likely is that? If it wasn't military, it was science (Zappa's father, for one). I was sharing this with my boss today (a scientist) and she gave a weak analogy that was something like "well, if 10% of the population was military why wouldn't it make sense that X amount of their kids would be musicians...". I didn't get that. lol

A LOT of the information in the articles was current news at the time to me, as I was raised in a suburb of Los Angeles. I lived it. Even though I'd heard much of this news growing up, when you string it all together (the horriffic murders, suicides, liasons, etc) as Mr. McGowan does - it's nearly dumbfounding.

Not only were nearly all the talents of the day related to the military, but so were their spouses, agents and managers.

Like I said, Mr. McGowan did not tie together Tavistock with his findings on Laurel Canyon in it's hey-day...I did that. So besides all the things I'm pondering right now about all this - I have to ask; IF Tavistock was a factor in creating the climate of the 60s and the hippie generation - WHO created the SOUND of the music then? Was that even planned? How do you come up with such a sound if it's not from the soul? I've written music...so I know where it comes from. That, baffles me. Who came up with the SOUND of the 60s?

And before you go jumping on me for my sources, please keep in mind that I don't keep up with what sites are bogus and all that rot. I don't travel a lot outside the few sites I visit. I just came upon this through a link from Educate Yourself. Being from my generation, and being from the Los Angeles area during these times, and seeing the title of the article Laurel Canyon and the Birth of the Hippie Generation - I had to click on it. And no, I don't believe in reptilians, so don't go there!

Mr. McGowan doesn't force his opinion down your throat, he just lays a lot of information out there, with humor too I might add. I was totally floored by the sheer amount of information.

http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/

So, has anyone else read this? And PR, could you please address my question about how the sound of the 60s can be made by an institute and not from the soul of the musicians? If that's even how it went down.

 

Yes, this is a great series of articles from McGowan. Very well researched reading which I have been following all summer long.

Tavistock (along with people such as Aldous Huxley) was behind the rise of the 60's counter-culture, and the Beatles were closely related to Tavistock. Their image and the way they were sold by the media was not simply some spontaneous creation as many believe. They were part of a massive social experiment that would give rise to what they would call "youth culture." There was a lot of money and effort behind this band from some very powerful people within the music industry and outside of the music industry, too. So yeah, Beatlemania was a total media-Tavistock creation, equipt with busses of screaming girls sent to their early gigs to get the whole media craze started so that everyone would want to become part of "the scene."

As far as the sound goes, the Beatles in and of themselves were not great musicians. However, they had some of the best equipment for that time period and were working with some of the best studio engineers and producers like George Martin. They played a pretty overlooked role in the Beatles' overall sound, especially on their post-1964 albums. The same holds true for many of the US producers.

We know Martin and others were heavily involved in techniques involving music and its relation with the mind, and how brain wave patterns are altered with certain types of music. They also worked closely with people like Gibson in the US on stereo and using what they call sequencing with the stereo. So to the average person listening, they would simply hear the instruments, when really there's actually sequences, which are pulses in certain songs that were conducive to certain mental states and brain wave patterns.

I mean, the Beatles started off as this squeeky-clean band that were playing pretty straight-forward music. Within about two years they were incorporating all these eastern influences and orchestral movements into their music with very interesting sequencing that seemed unlikely to be coming from guys who were only in their mid-20s at the time. So while I do not deny the talent of someone like John Lennon, who indeed was a brilliant person, I have no doubt the Beatles were given "a little help from their friends" along the way.

It is interesting to see how it all ties in and contrasts with the hippy scene here in the US, as McGowan points out in his articles the connections with these 60's California bands to the military and military intelligence. There is definitely a lot more to the picture than what the average person knows.

But just look at LSD and how this all ties in with it. We know that LSD was a CIA mind control drug YEARS before it became popular with the counterculture. And the flood of LSD witnessed around '65-66 was not made by some guy in his bathroom, but by the CIA, who introduced this into society to create a cultural sea change and a move away from the old age (based around traditional Judeo-Christian values), into the new Aquarian age (a return to pantheistic, earth-based religion). This was around the same time when all the eastern mysticism and new age stuff was being introduced to the public. Then we had the slogans... you know, "turn on, tune in, drop out," etc. being pushed by people like Leary, who admittedly was working for the CIA.

The fact is all culture and counter-culture comes from the top-down with an agenda unbeknownst to the general public. It doesn't matter if it's the hippy culture or the grunge culture, or even the rap culture. It's all put out there for a reason, for purposes of social engineering and moving people in a pre-determined direction. People parrot and mimic whatever is given to them as promoted by the media, which in turn fuels culture. That's how something becomes "popular." It is never just a grassroots thing that sprouts on its own, but rather is promoted into existence from the top.

 

LSD was a catalyst for division, division was a catalyst for protest, protest was a catalyst for a tighter police state.

pretty much any star who died under vague circumstances, and/or had their death case closed unusually fast, was too close to the truth.
looking at the circumstances of Morrison and Jimi's death, I'm sure they were. both of them knew the government was after them and predicted their deaths in interviews, Jim Morrison even went to France to get away. Jimi left a poem with him called the story of life.
add Brian Jones to that list too.
Joplin, I don't know the details of her death, but I have a hunch she was targeted too.

and then, later on, Kurt Cobain.
and Tupac, he even said in a song "some say that they expect illuminati to put my body to sleep", and in the same song, he referred to the computer chips, that will probably become public in the near future.
it was put out after he died which makes it more interesting.

I imagine the whole Charles Manson thing was predetermined too, top to bottom.

and of course John Lennon.
you know whats weird though? John Lennons killer was reading the book Catcher in the Rye after he shot him, even though those close to him say they knew of not connection between him and that book.
the man who tried to assassinate Reagan, he was also found with Catcher in the Rye.

I think Catcher in the Rye was a trigger of sorts.
what do you know about that Rat??

 

A Catcher in the Rye was probably used as part of Chapman's programming. I don't know about the book itself.

 

I've also read that Catcher in the Rye could have had trigger words/phrases in it in relation to John Lennon's murder and the assissanation attempt on Reagan. I don't think I've seen it mentioned in conjunction with anyone else, but that doesn't mean it's not been used in other instances. We aren't privy to know, unless they 'report'.

I'm still hanging out at Daves site and reading. I did get through the 10 installments of Laurel Canyon, but skimmed over some of the parts, so am backtracking tonight. I always knew Hollywood was a shallow machine, but now I'm thinking it's a complete cesspool of shit (is that redundant?).

Just the installment on Phil Ochs is enough (folk singer, Laurel Canyon regular, after XX amount of years turns around, changes his name to John something and states publically that he's with the CIA - AND turns up he 'hanged himself" mmmmm)...but the way it all ties in with the Log Cabin, who owned it, who lived there, what happened to who knew who and when.

As I said earlier, I heard most this news growing up in the area, but Dave strings it all together. It's so odd to think that the peaceful little community that Joni sings of in Ladies of the Canyon, is about this place with all this death, and brutal murder. WTF?

To anyone who's intrested in this stuff, I suggest you also read on Daves site the two installments on "Celluloid Heros".

ETA:

PR, I wanted to let you know that yesterday, I finally got to watch They Live. Bought it long ago when you mentioned it in here and fianally got to it. Along with the original Manchurian Candidate. Quite the day I had on in bed with a bad back.

And get this...I'm on Amazon reading reviews of Programmed to Kill (by Dave McGowan) and I was taken with this:

 

good book

 

I really would love to believe that the whole 60's counterculture was just one big hoax by the government because a lot of the people nowadays who are all obsessed with it piss me off, but it just doesn't seem right.

It just seems that it would not be in the governments best interest to begin this whole "counterculture" 60's thing. Why would they want to stray from the values that led our country successfully through WWII and have been the basis of our country since its inception? I mean yeah, things changed between 1776 and 1959, but the U.S. remained pretty religious and conservative up until the 60's. What benefit would it serve our government to totally uproot all these values and replace them with the counterculture ones?

As for the LSD coming from the government, it also sounds implausible. The government did experiment with LSD as a mind control drug, but ruled it had no use. I know you guys probably believe nothing that the government says, so look at people who have used LSD. I know a lot of people who have used LSD, and they have exactly the same beliefs now after tripping on this "mind control" drug as they did before. I just don't see how it can be a mind control drug when, well, it doesn't control your mind. Also, was Owsley employed by a government agency? Because if he wasn't, that is a huge loophole in the theory because he was the #1 producer of LSD during the 60's. Anyone with any knowledge of drugs knows LSD can't be made in a bathroom or by anyone without extensive organic chemistry knowledge. It HAS to be produced by a trained, experienced and probably slightly wealthy chemist.

Just some of my thoughts on this theory. i'd love to hear what you guys have to say.

The Mushroom Man

 

ruled it had no use, eh?

sorry...you're wrong. they do more than you can imagine with psychedelics.

 

I've done acid many a time in my younger days, and I always found it to be very spiritual and cleansing. Sorta clears out the cobwebs if you will.

For it to be a mind control tool, my understanding is it's used in conjunction with other things such as audio / visual, suggestive pharases - you'd have to imagine all this taking place in a lab setting. I believe Cathy O'Brian touches on this in one of her videos on Youtube. You can search for it. I've read about it from other sources as well. Just simply taking acid does not make you mind controlled (or DOES it?? *wink wink*) as you're suggesting.

According to the information I've read the reason to bring about the hippie revolution was to break down the family unit, break down religion (usher in the new age crapola) - by the powers that be BEHIND the powers that be. Divide and conqure is the theory I believe. PR can give you a more insightful assessment of this.

Timothy Leary - who encouraged everyone to "tune in, turn on, and drop out" is said to have been a CIA operative. So that adds up to gov't + LSD + "hippie" Timothy Leary = gov't involved in dispensing it to the public.

Just sharing what I've read.

 

if you keep somebody in a padded room with speakers in it, while they're on high doses of LSD, you will get through to them. I heard they'd put speakers in their pillows and repeat a tape, that would drive you mad.
so if its supervised use, LSD could easily be a tool for mind control. you may need to give them a lot of it, and control their set and setting as well as you can. you can't do much to control the set, but if you control the setting, you will effect their mindset eventually.

the fact that people find such spiritual use of LSD when they do it via their own consent, tells me a. it was merely a tool or division, or b. their plan backfired. I would go with choice a.

 

What do you mean by division? Or, did you mean a tool FOR division?

 

The people who run this country -- the international elite -- want to bring this country down so it can be merged into a fascistic one world government. These people operate according to a time-table, and we are at a different point on this time-table than we were during WWII, when the US still served as a world imperial power to usher in this New World Order. While the US is still a world imperial power, its days are limited, and anyone with eyes to see can witness this happening as the economy begins to implode.

When you want to overthrow a society, you must promote chaos and destory the perceived traditional values which themselves were conditioned into people to serve an agenda at that phase of the time-table. Christianity, morality and Judeo-Christian traditions corresponded with the buildup of the US as a world imperial power to bring in this very system I am speaking of. Now that the US has served its purpose and we are ripe for being brought down, the opposite is employed, which is deviancy, immorality, breakdown of the family, confusion of gender roles, drugs, racial tensions, etc.

But once you understand this time-table you hear me speaking of, you understand that it corresponds with the zodiac. This may sound odd to most people, but an age represents a 2,100 year period approximately. The age of Pisces started around the year of 1 AD. The Age of Pisces is the Christian age and the age we are now in. Pisces is the fish, hence the Jesus fish and other fish symbolism in the Christian religion. The age that predated the Age of Pisces was the Age of Aires, and Aires of course was the ram and is why the ram's horn was traditionally featured in Jewish ceremonies. Now we are entering into the new age of Aquarius, which, like the previous two ages (and the ones before that), centers around a religion. The "new" world religion of the new age will be a form of earth worship, also known as pantheism, which predates Christianity. Each dominant religion for each age follows a certain agenda, and the new age religion will be centered around the predominate belief that man is parasitic to mother earth and therefore the population of this planet must be greatly reduced to save Gaia. This ties in with the elite's long-term goal of a 90% population reduction to usher in their utopia, which will be a utopia for the chosen few.

To bring in the new, they must destroy the old, and this is precisely what they are doing through the manipulation and creation of culture.

 

Now to address the question about LSD. It was a catalyst for social change, but social change as seen by those at the top. Along with the promotion of drugs went the promotion of the new age culture and religion, which in many aspects was the hippy culture. It represented a sea change, away from the Piscean age and into the Aquarian age.

However, this was just a rehashing of the older pagan religions, and the hippy culture was simply modeled after the pagan cult ceremonies of the Egyptian and Roman empires. As Paul Galliongi points out in the book The House of Life, Magic, and Medical science in Ancient Egypt:

Aldous Huxley, who was one of the leading figures (likely the originator) of the counterculture movement, was a member of one of these modern Isis cults called the 'Children of the Sun'.

 

yeah, that's what I should've said. basically a catalyst. Rat explains it better than I.

 

Thank you for the explanations, I greatly appreciate it. So, it seems that this secret society of people behind the government is using a bunch of granola bar, love-the-earth whackos to bring us into some new age (which coincidentally has a song named after it) so they can kill 90% of us and use the rest to turn earth into utopia?

You know, whenever something really stupid or unbelievable happens, they always say "you can't make this shit up" or something like that. Apparently, you CAN make that shit up. I always knew I didn't quite trust the crazy hippies!

Another question I have is when exactly this huge takeover is going to begin/ get implemented? Is it soon? Because as of now, the vast majority of people don't buy into the whole love the earth, recycle bullshit that everyone is constantly trying to push down our throats. People also still love their families and all that judeo-christian stuff. It's been 40 years since the 60's, and the majority of people are still normal, perse. For this master, evil, probably non-existent plan to work, wouldn't the country need to be in chaos? Wouldn't there need to be a severe lack of family/ religious values? Wouldn't things need to be way worse than they are now? Just some questions.

A short answer for stalk: as for the government and LSD I was referring to their "official" judgment on it, that was that it has no value as a weapon/ mind control substance. I know the... special breed of people in this particular forum wouldn't believe an official statement from anything (besides abovetopsecret.com, of course) if it crawled up their ass and bit them in the brain, but I still included it. They may do "more than I can believe" with psychedelics, but "officially," they don't.

Why not make my post a little longer? Have you guys ever seen the Southpark episode with the Hardly Boys about 9/11? How the real answer is right in front of their eyes but everyone's head is so far up their ass about conspiracy that they can't see it? Maybe that really is the case. Maybe Pressed Rat and the guy who wrote the paper that spawned this thread and every other conspiracy whacko out there are actually working for the government to spread conspiracies that make the government seem more powerful than it actually is? Is that not a possibility? Or, maybe thay actually started the conspiracy culture (just like the started the 60's culture) to make everyone paranoid about a bunch of stupid shit to distract them from what is really going on? What if everything you guys believe in is false too?

Of course you will all say it is bullshit, that I can see, and it probably is bullshit, but it's just as plausible as the evil secret societies starting the 60's counterculture. Think about it. 1 half of the people who produce south park are Jewish. There are Jews in the government. These Jews are probably connected in some way to the people who produce south park. That is all either fact or very plausible. Now, from that believable chunk of information, we can draw that the Jews in the government are using Matt Stone and Trey Parker to distract the American people from Bush's secret plan to bring our country to its knees so he can turn us all into potato salad (the kosher kind) so the giant network of Jews who run the world can have something new to eat.

I really don't want this to degrade into a Yeal-style who's-sources-are-more-credible bullshit thread, but really, what I just said makes about as much sense as everything I have heard/ read so far. A vastly over construed conspiracy grounded in some odd and ultimately demented bias against the government/America/ the human race that has a small amount of fact behind it.

Phew, that was a mouthful. And yes, I am ready to get torn apart for speaking against the almighty PR and his conspiracy cronies.

The Mushroom Man.

 

Wow. Im a cronie? I've never been called a cronie before.

Hey, have all the counter opinions you want. The only thing I would ask, is keep it civil. The name calling (ala Yeal), etc is really not necessary to have a decent discussion about alternative ways of seeing and/or looking at the world we live in and the things that happen in it.

I'm just waking up and getting ready for work (*gak*), so I don't have the brain power to post a thoughtful reply at this time.

 

Mushroom Man,

First of all, the hippy movement was merely used to kick start the whole collective shift in consciousness toward the new age. The new age teachings really began in the 1800s with people like Madame Blavatsky, but it didn't gain widespread popularity until around the 1960s. So the actual movement might have started with the hippy movement, but that also coincided with a lot of other things, like the introduction of the eastern religions into the West and the merging of these religions with Christianity to in fact overthrow Christianity from within. Now I am not saying these things in and of themselves are bad or evil or anything like that. I am just trying to show you the agenda and how these people create movements and then guide them to forward an agenda that's unbeknownst to the people that are part of these movements.

But I wouldn't necessarily say hippies are being used any more than any of these other groups that have sprang up over the past 40-50 years. There isn't any movement that has gained notoriety that hasn't been funded and promoted with an ulterior motive by the big foundations like Ford and Carnegie, in tandem with the corporate-owned, CFR-controlled media.

You asked about certain conspiracy people working for the government, and I have no doubt much of the conspiracy culture is in fact fueled by the government. If they know people are waking up to the truth, they know they must find a way to subvert and discredit this information. So what they do is promote people who take relevant information, and then spin it off into some science-fiction fantasy world with aliens and reptilians. This will either confuse or mislead certain people, or it will turn off those seeking the truth by causing them to throw the baby out with the bath water so to speak. So it takes a relatively informed person to separate the wheat from the chaff, because there is a lot of carefully-crafted disinformation that's put out there. This can not only be found on many of the big "conspiracy" websites, but also many of the widely-available books carried by all the big bookstores. There is a reason why some of this information is so easy to obtain, while often the real truth takes more time and effort to find.

Now to address what you said in your third paragraph, you do bring up some good points. Yes, many people still cling to their religion, but most of these religions too have been subverted and taken over from within, which is why so many of the teachings have altered over the years and have incorporated many new age ideologies. A perfect example of this would be the so-called "purpose-driven" church, which has massive funding behind it and whose leaders are tied to the government and NGOs. Most of these evangelical mega churches are tied to the government and are nothing more than brainwashing facilities.

No, most people do not buy into this hippy-dippy nonsense, so they sell them on this whole global warming/"humans are destroying the earth" nonsense to bring them into this religion without them even knowing. The whole push for everything green ties directly into this new age religion and the elite's plan for population reduction. So it's done covertly so most people don't even realize it. This whole new age religion will be based around Gaia and ridding the earth of humans to save the planet. So when you hear people saying that environmentalism is a religion, well it is a religion and it was designed for that purpose. It is the new religion for the new age, and I made a brief video that gets into this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYl4hkFRdTk

 

great reply
every time I'm offered some sort of truth via any mainstream source, I take it with a gigantic grain of salt. from Keith Olbermann to the "truth" movement to Alex Jones. I even questioned Ron Paul when he first came by, and I still do, but he's one of the good guys in my eyes.


to control the dissent, you must be the dissent.

 

First off I jsut wanna say that I didn't mean to come across as an ass, or worse a Yeal, it's just that sometimes the best way for me to get across what i am thinking is by just syaing it and not beating around the bush trying not to offend people.

Rat, that was a very interesting post, and I must say now I think I understand better what you mean about this whole new religion stuff. It actually seems to make a good amount of sense. While I am still hesitant to subscribe to this train of thought, it's no longer relegated to the "hippy-crackpot theory" section of my brain lol. I always thought there was something fishy about the new view of how bad humans are for everything. I also despise large churches and "purpose driven" anything. My school does a lot of that and i can't help but argue any time somebody tries to get to me participate in some "save the planet" bullshit.

But yeah, since this seems believeable, as well as interesting, i am gonna watch the video you posted a link to. But, regardless of any of this, the only real way to tell will be time. I'm not planning on becoming a tree hugging earth lover any time soon, so I will just wait and see what happens. And Rat, if, invisible-man-in-the-sky forbid, this ever does happen, I'll be the first to sign up to fight those assholes . again, thanks for the informative post.

The Mushroom Man

 

Wow, search function only pulled up this one thread about Tavistock?

http://www.whale.to/b/tav.html

Interesting stuff to say the least.