Support the troops?

Just what does this mean anyhow? The anti-war people use it to placate the killing machine so they won't be labled terrorists or traitors. Put a "support the troops" sign in your yard or on your car and you have a certain amount of protection from right wing hate mongers. Something we can all agree on, right?
But what does it REALLY mean? Support the troops by telling them they're doing a great job killing? Sending them deoderant and body armor? Bringing them home now that they have been psycologically terrorized and tormented?
Well, I have a novel idea. Things in this old world have gone too far. Its all quickly getting out of hand. Everyone spews about how brave and tough our troops are. But are they really brave and tough or are they just slaves? Look at any poll where the question relates to the iraq war. Most feel the war is a mistake. No matter what poll you look at. When George B. talks about the American people this and the American people that, just who the heck IS he talking about anyhow? His minority buddys and the few ostriches (head in sand) out there who still think he's just ok. I think its time that instead of "support our troops", our troops should start supporting us. The MAJORITY who feels this war is wrong and wants it to end. Are the troops working for the people or the government, because it is either/or, and not both. It's time for the troops to support what the people want, not what the baby killers demand. Enough is enough. I think it's high time that we begin to hold the troops accountable for what they are doing. Brave and strong, maybe, but they're putting their lives on the line already, so what if they all just refused to fight? How could it get any worse than being killed or permanently disfigured? The troops are the only ones who can stop this war! And its high time they did. Being court-marshalled CANNOT be as bad as being dead, or losing your arms/legs/eyes/etc. It cannot be as bad as having to live the rest of your life with the images of dying children, screaming mothers, blood and body parts permanently implanted in your brain, to say nothing of the permanent destruction of valuable and sacred historical landmarks. I'm thru with the "support your troops crap". Its just a wishy washy saying intended to keep you respectible...

 

Well, what the fuck? NOBODY even has an opinion on this??? I guess thats what I mean by wishy washy. Nobody gives a shit. Nobody wants to talk about it, Lets just sweep this under the table and pretend nobody said this?

Well, fuck it. When the viet nam war was going on people held the troops accountable. Sometimes it was cruel. But it was part of what got the point across. But big bro has everybody so scared or apathetic or brainwashed that you hardly even see an antiwar tee shirt or bumper sticker any more. WTF!!!

Most everybody on these forums talk about how they want to see change, revolution, etc. But its mostly just b.s. I guess, cause nobody really wants to put themselves in any precarious positions. Let somebody else do it, right? Everybodys got a brother or son or cousin or something in the military and that makes it ok, right? Lets get real. You cant tell me that when they signed up they didnt realize that the military is all about killing? What the hell do they think it IS all about then? No body lives under THAT big of a rock. Oh but its one of the only things that some poor underprivilaged people have in life to get ahead, right, and its not their fault. Well, bullshit. Id rather live in a box and eat out of dumpsters than have the karma of murdering other humans on my head. There is no amount of money thats worth it to me to turn myself into a LEGAL mass murderer.
At this point in time anyone who puts themselves into the position of carrying out the orders of some of the biggest liars and war criminals of our time, is PART OF THE PROBLEM. Period.

 

I have had to take time to not sound like Im bashing anyone. You have a free mind and spirit, when you are in the military they work very hard to remove that from you. You are trained not just physically but mentally as well. The point of basic training is to rip you to the ground only to rebuild you. When complete, you are a team, you are the toughest son of a bitch in the world, nothing is more powerful, no one and nothing can kill you, you are changed. You fight for your team, for your honor, for your duty as per oders. Vietnam (your age) should have taught you this much... That these men, some were mere boys will put themselves in a situation that they know is totally wrong and hopeless for one thing, they were told to do it, it is honorable therefore you do it. Look at the old Japanese pilots who knew they were to be used for a human guided bomb. Look at the family's who sent their child up to GI's with a bomb strapped to them, look at the car bombers, the pilots that flew the jets intot he towers, Yamamotto leading the attack on Pearl Harbor. He attacked becuase he was ordered to, he left with full knowledge it was the biggest mistake in Japanese history but only because he was ordered to. Why did the German military attack Russia when they had a recent agreement not to and the men knew what a great error it would be to try to take on a 3 front war. All becuase they have been trained to follow orders and believe in the command no matter what everything else tells them.

Imagine showing up for your first day in Vietnam and your new C/O asks for 2 volunteers to shoot just so they did not have to waste the time to go out on patrol. They knew 100% for sure at least 2 soldiers every patrol would be killed or missing and to save time figured shooting 2 upfront would save time.

They just train them to think differnetly than you and I. SO I do support my freinds who are there, or have been there, I want them to know I care, I am there freind, I am and always will be no matter what. I want them to know that my back will never be turned against them like some had done to our soldiers in the past. To end this war it has to be done from here. If prison is so easy and living with the dishonor they will feel then perhaps it would be easier for you to plot a massive civilian force strike against the current goverment and take your chances. By the way, during war failure to follow orders can also be punishable by death, not just prison.

 

I would have replied sooner, had I seen this topic...

I totally agree, 100%.

The troops have more power, than the general public does, over the government. They are MAKING themselves slaves, as you said, by going along with it. Troops standing up to the government, would have George W. shaking in his little socks. The government/president, relies on the innocent, to go fight the war that the government ignites, FOR them.... without these people, there wouldn't be a war.

And I do NOT understand those who sign UP for the military. Anyone I've ever met who has decided to join the military, seems to think that somehow they are doing good.... but killing others, and risking their OWN lives isn't worth ANYTHING--- They also make the decision to put their lives on the line, without realizing what a powerful, traumatizing situation they may be putting theirselves in.

Just as you stated before, MOST of the troops don't even AGREE with this war.... but yet, they go along with it, blindly.

It's like, no one realizes they have FREE WILL anymore. Yes, the government is becoming more and more powerful.... our country is becoming less free everyday.... but the only REASON our government IS gaining so much control is because we are letting it!

If more people would just stand up for what they believe in... there would be LESS TO WORRY ABOUT.


Americans, as a whole, are submissive now days.... Why did anyone ever fight for our freedom, if we allow it to constantly be stolen from us, blindly?

 

Thanks for pointing out just how brainwashed (mind controlled) and subservient the military can make you. Maybe if more people realized this they wouldnt be so quick to volunteer for the job. Its like going to school to learn how to be insane for the rest of your life... There is no honor in it. Why would anyone WANT to be expendable?

 

If you ever notice alot of people who join tend to be those who are running away from something, are wanting to belong to something or some one, are from poor finacial backgrounds. They do get a sense that they belong, that they are important, that they hae a great power. Man you look at a Marine, those guys you can pick out of a crowd easy. I have a good friend he is no curently a reservist and just came back from Iraq. He used to be a Marine and he has so much confidence about his ability to survive to win at anything its amazing! Even though the confidence is, well not factual, he in his heart and soul believes it to be true.

I mean we are all brain washed to some degree, its just we do not know it. You believe a colors name, a mathmatical equation, the letters you combine to build a word ect as to be real becuase you were infact brain washed to believe it is so. Now some level of brain washing is needed so that one will learn a common unity with the rest of the group, its what happens beyond this that certain malfunctions may happen.

Take as you said college, why do you goto school for so long to say teach grade school kids? Phy 101 teaches that the mind can only house so much information in the forward easy reach section of the mind. The other information is not lost but rather put way back in the files only able to be retrieved by some sort of reminder. So 2.75 years (Iam being nice here) is spent removing all the common sense and prior knowledge of your mind and filling it with political correct classes, information and conformity and the last 1.25 years is actual information that pertains to the career.

Why do they teach some events in school and not others in our worlds history? Why is it now that the acts Japan took agianst our soldiers (Baton death march comes to mind) not in any history that is taught to our children but the atomic bombs that we dropped is sure taught! The Japanese claimed to have needed to march the soldiers from one camp to another, but they must have got lost since they made several circles for days and when the soldier fell, he was killed. I assume that was in thier culture the humane thing to do. Using nukes is a terrible thing to do, but if our intentions at the time were to be terrible, we would not have dropped leaflets of warning, we also would have dropped them right down town Tokoyo.

My view of this war or any war incase you think Im some war monger. I hate war, I hate violence but do believe if you are attacked you should swiftly react in such a way that others will never wish to do so agianst you. I dont believe that war should have rules, that you rebuild what you had to destroy. I believe that if an attacker is seeking refuge in another country and that country refuses to assist in letting you reach that enemy then they too are an enemy.

As for Iraq, well this war is like putting a person in jail becuase he owns a gun, hates banks therefore you are putting him in jail becuase he has the ability to rob a bank. Preventative war practices is a bit crazy and if we were in it for that as the goverment would like you to believe then why did we not go after Suadi Arabia, Iran, China, (previous) USSR, Cuba and the lot. Hell Iran sanctioned the hijacking of Americans in the early 80's, Saudi has funded more terrorist activity against the US than any other country. We dont attack Saudi becuase they also make up over 30% of our countries revenue in the stock market (laundry dirty money).

They day anyone believes that your goverment represents the people and not large corporations is the day you live with a fool! I dont care what country you are from, it is business that dictates what is done and never was the people.

Damn I ramble on, touchy subject for me I guess. I believe in men who are willing to die for me to be safe, I believe in our country and all that I am allowed (for now) to do. I deplore our goverment and how they utilize and abuse thier power, there rights and other humans to gain further wealth and power for themselves and others.

 

Supporting the troops can be as simple as not blaming them for the war they're in. Blame the government that wages war, not the troops that fight it. Don't call them murderers and baby killers like some fanatics did when they returned from Vietnam. Don't hold their military service against them.

 

Why not? If I invite a bunch of people to a keg party at my place, and they all come and get drunk and cause a bunch of trouble, sure, its my fault for having the party, but then it must be their fault too for coming and participating.
When you kill someone it is called murder or manslaughter. And there are babies, little kids, women, elderly, all being killed. To say nothing of the torture being allowed. Self defence? If I'm stupid enough to hang on the street corner in the middle of gangland somewhere, and end up having to kill someone in "self defence", ya may as well call it murder, because I was the one who chose to be there, I could have chosen to be out in the woods instead.
So, what we're saying here is that the soldiers are just completely helpless pawns, slaves, victims, and we should simply feel sorry for them no matter what horrible things they do? (The devil made me do it)..... I suppose they had no choice but to signup for the military and its not their fault in any way shape or form, right? No one told them they might actually have to kill anyone?
Maybe I can feel sorry for someone who is too ignorant to realize that "be all you can be" means all they can be is a brainwashed slave, and a moving target. Maybe, but once the killing starts, you're on your own. Unless we were raised in a really sick environment, we were all raised to believe killing is wrong. Theres LAWS against it for petes sake, so someone must believe it. "Fighting for our freedoms" is total bull. Were losing our freedoms at a rapid pace, so nobody can use that as an excuse any more. And the way George B. banters around the words "The American people........" as if he thinks we're all on the same page as him, well, then I must not be one of those American people he always speaks of. A human without a country. Only the world for a home...

 

I Don't know about the rest of you, but I was always told the yellow ribbon thing was to show the troops there still in a hearts and that they make a safe and speedy return. I think the war is bull shit and I'v talked to a couple of my friends who have resently come back from Iraq. I don't support the stuff there doing, or how there doing it, but they are still human.

 

People say they support the troops but not the war because the troops are mindless drones that follow orders. They have no say, whatever the commander says must be correct to follow, or else you are a traitor. It is against the law, for soldiers to express themselves while in the services. Once you join the military, you are singing your life away for x amount of years and many freedoms and rights. Which is ridiculous, how do you expect people who sign their freedoms and rights away to protect freedoms that they do not mind signing away.

Most people who join the military do not join because they would like to. They join because they come from poor backgrounds, money for college, to escape something whether it would be gangs or poor neighborhoods and ghettos. Therefore, most join the army because of economical, financial, and social reasons. Just victims of circumstances

And the army does a good job at advertising itself to such people. Moreover, Bush recently slashed funding for domestic programs and financial help for students from poor backgrounds to enter college. So, I would assume there would be a lot more desperate people joining the army to get somewhere in life.

 

I am sadened at the tone of this thread... there is thankfuly a myriad of differing opinions from troops.. I support the decent troops regardless of their opinion.. but to just brand them 'mindless drones' is quite insulting... each person has a story to tell and has thoughts and feelings .. Ofcourse their is going to be many 'gun ho' soldiers but also some not so 'gun ho' soldiers who support the action in Iraq... as well as considerate soldiers and 'gun ho' soldiers who want to get the fuck home...

I do not doubt some will be traumatised by what they see.. watching as the insurgency blow people up is no fun i am sure.. Not ignoring the fact that 'we' did our fair share of killing.. i can't ever forget that.. but i have thought long and hard about it.. and i personaly can still back this endeavour of ours [and the vast majority of the troops].. I believe it is a good thing we are doing and we should seek the good and the bad...

I think the major concern of troops is Equipment Training and Leadership.

Bond of friendship

Helping hands: Hldr William Shepherd shares food during Eid al-Adha Picture: 7 Armd Bde​

BRITISH soldiers in southern Iraq have donated a third of their week’s food to local people in recognition of the Islamic festival of Eid al-Adha.​

Troops from The Royal Scots Dragoon Guards battle-group in Maysan Province put aside a selection of food that would normally be cooked for them over the course of a week, in accordance with Muslim custom.

The food, mostly in cans, was delivered to Iraqi Police Service stations and the local council for distribution.
Lt Col Ben Edwards, CO of The Royal Scots Dragoon Guards battle-group, said: “In the three months since we have arrived here, the men and women of The Royal Scots Dragoon Guards battle-group feel they have formed a special bond with the people.

“As Scots, we have lots of things in common – including a love of poetry and music and a passion for football. We are also great talkers and that seems to be something the people of Maysan enjoy as well.

“I suggested to my soldiers that we might recognise the close bond we have formed by following the tradition of donating a third of our food during Eid al-Adha and they unanimously agreed.”

Eid is the most important feast of the Muslim calendar and concludes the holy pilgrimage to Mecca in Saudi Arabia.


​

http://www.soldiermagazine.co.uk/mag/feature1.htm#story2

http://www.sftt.org/main.cfm?actionId=globalShowStaticContent&screenKey=cmpAbout

http://www.vic.com/tnchron/class/IraqJournal.htm

yeah very brainwashed (mind controlled) and subservient

 

The ones that are not mindless drones escaped to Canada to avoid participating in a misleading, illegal, unnecessary, and false war.

Since they have no rights to question or oppose their leaders. The "leader" knows best.

 

Of course people don’t want war. Why should a poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best thing he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece?” Hermann Goering

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." Herman Goering

 

Well i have edited my post to reflect a 'alternate image'..

So what you are suggesting is that those that DO support the war are war mongering ******** ..Are you suggesting i am also ?.

Is anything you have stated based on anything other that the top of your head..? You might call me 'apologetic' or whatever the hell you like.. but come on please 'justify' your thoughts with some 'evidence' ..

illegal !

Open to interpretation:



Authority to use force against Iraq exists from the combined effect of Resolutions 678, 687 and 1441. All of these resolutions were adopted under Chapter VII of the UN Charter which allows the use of force for the express purpose of restoring international peace and security:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1471659,00.html

Key documents: advice to the government
07.03.03: Attorney general's full advice on Iraq war (pdf)
07.03.03: Summary of the attorney general's advice on Iraq war
17.03.03: Full text of the attorney general's published advice

Key documents: UN security council
28.02.03: Hans Blix's report to the UN security council (pdf)
US security council resolution 678 (pdf)
UN security council resolution 687 (pdf)
UN security council resolution 1441 (pdf)

Key documents: House of Commons
18.03.03: Full text of Commons Iraq debate (Hansard)

Analysis
Lord Lester's analysis of the summary of the attorney general's advice of 07.03.03 (pdf)
27.04.2005: Q&A: Lord Goldsmith's legal advice and the Iraq war

Timeline
28.04.2005: Countdown to war

Full coverage
Iraq
Election 2005
UK politics and Iraq

 

Do you feel the war was necessary? If so why?

 

Are the people who are against the war against the troops fighting for their lives? Are they against the troops fighting for the lives and freedom of the Iraqi people? Are they against protecting people who want nothing more than their basic freedoms from people who want nothing more than death? Do you think the troops are there because of politics? Are you against the war because you don't like Bush, you think he lied to get us there, you think we are only there for the oil, or we don't care about the Iraqi people? Does this really have anything to do with the troops?

 

No, because it is not the duty of the troops to question their superiors, it is what they are trained too. Their job is follow orders like mindless drones, no matter what the circumstances are Which is kind of sad.

The troops are blameless because this is how the whole military works. It needs to change.

Would you want people like that protecting your so called freedoms that are in danger?

America's army is mindless and it needs a voice other than their commanders and leaders.

 

What are the troops doing that you are personally against?

 

Nothing, their job is to kill and fight wars considered necessary by their leaders.

My beef is with the bush Administration, misleading the public to a unnecessary war.

 

Unnescessary in the eyes of some.