Some additional info on Female Genital Mutilation

I defy anyone to read these things (many of them written by Amenesty International) and still say "It's Cultural Identity and help Oppression from the White Man." It isn't either of these.

The physical and psychological effects of female genital mutilation (from Amesty International)

Physical effects
The effects of genital mutilation can lead to death. At the time the mutilation is carried out, pain, shock, haemorrhage and damage to the organs surrounding the clitoris and labia can occur. Afterwards urine may be retained and serious infection develop. Use of the same instrument on several girls without sterilization can cause the spread of HIV.

More commonly, the chronic infections, intermittent bleeding, abscesses and small benign tumours of the nerve which can result from clitoridectomy and excision cause discomfort and extreme pain.

Infibulation can have even more serious long-term effects: chronic urinary tract infections, stones in the bladder and urethra, kidney damage, reproductive tract infections resulting from obstructed menstrual flow, pelvic infections, infertility, excessive scar tissue, keloids (raised, irregularly shaped, progressively enlarging scars) and dermoid cysts.

First sexual intercourse can only take place after gradual and painful dilation of the opening left after mutilation. In some cases, cutting is necessary before intercourse can take place. In one study carried out in Sudan, 15% of women interviewed reported that cutting was necessary before penetration could be achieved.1 Some new wives are seriously damaged by unskilful cutting carried out by their husbands. A possible additional problem resulting from all types of female genital mutilation is that lasting damage to the genital area can increase the risk of HIV transmission during intercourse.

During childbirth, existing scar tissue on excised women may tear. Infibulated women, whose genitals have been tightly closed, have to be cut to allow the baby to emerge. If no attendant is present to do this, perineal tears or obstructed labour can occur. After giving birth, women are often reinfibulated to make them "tight" for their husbands. The constant cutting and restitching of a women's genitals with each birth can result in tough scar tissue in the genital area.

The secrecy surrounding FGM, and the protection of those who carry it out, make collecting data about complications resulting from mutilation difficult. When problems do occur these are rarely attributed to the person who performed the mutilation. They are more likely to be blamed on the girl's alleged "promiscuity" or the fact that sacrifices or rituals were not carried out properly by the parents. Most information is collected retrospectively, often a long time after the event. This means that one has to rely on the accuracy of the woman's memory, her own assessment of the severity of any resulting complications, and her perception of whether any health problems were associated with mutilation.

Some data on the short and long-term medical effects of FGM, including those associated with pregnancy, have been collected in hospital or clinic-based studies, and this has been useful in acquiring a knowledge of the range of health problems that can result. However, the incidence of these problems, and of deaths as a result of mutilation, cannot be reliably estimated. Supporters of the practice claim that major complications and problems are rare, while opponents of the practice claim that they are frequent.

Effects on sexuality
Genital mutilation can make first intercourse an ordeal for women. It can be extremely painful, and even dangerous, if the woman has to be cut open; for some women, intercourse remains painful. Even where this is not the case, the importance of the clitoris in experiencing sexual pleasure and orgasm suggests that mutilation involving partial or complete clitoridectomy would adversely affect sexual fulfilment. Clinical considerations and the majority of studies on women's enjoyment of sex suggest that genital mutilation does impair a women's enjoyment.

Psychological effects
The psychological effects of FGM are more difficult to investigate scientifically than the physical ones. A small number of clinical cases of psychological illness related to genital mutilation have been reported.3 Despite the lack of scientific evidence, personal accounts of mutilation reveal feelings of anxiety, terror, humiliation and betrayal, all of which would be likely to have long-term negative effects. Some experts suggest that the shock and trauma of the operation may contribute to the behaviour described as "calmer" and "docile", considered positive in societies that practise female genital mutilation.

Festivities, presents and special attention at the time of mutilation may mitigate some of the trauma experienced, but the most important psychological effect on a woman who has survived is the feeling that she is acceptable to her society, having upheld the traditions of her culture and made herself eligible for marriage, often the only role available to her. It is possible that a woman who did not undergo genital mutilation could suffer psychological problems as a result of rejection by the society. Where the FGM-practising community is in a minority, women are thought to be particularly vulnerable to psychological problems, caught as they are between the social norms of their own community and those of the majority culture.





In brief, I present here some of the most striking among these similarities: (This is also from a group which fights against both female and male genital mutilation, and shows the similarities between the attitudes in each culture (female FGM in Africa and Male GM (routine infant circumcism) in the USA) This was not written by me, Maggie)

Clitoridectomy and Infibulation in Africa​

Infant Male Circumcision in North America​

FGM "She loses only a little piece of the clitoris, just the part that protrudes. The girl does not miss it. She can still feel, after all. There is hardly any pain. Women's pain thresholds are so much higher than men's."

MGM (Male Gential Mutialion or "routine" infant circumcison") "It's only a little piece of skin. The baby does not feel any pain because his nervous system is not developed yet."

FGM "The parts that are cut away are disgusting and hideous to look at. It is done for the beauty of the suture."

MGM "An uncircumcised penis is a real turn-off. Its disgusting. It looks like the penis of an animal."

FGM "Female circumcision protects the health of a woman. Infibulation prevents the uterus from falling out [uterine prolapse]. It keeps her smelling so sweet that her husband will be pleased. If it is not done, she will stink and get worms in her vagina."

MGM "An uncircumcised penis causes urinary infections and penile cancer. It generates smegma and smegma stinks. A circumcised penis is more hygienic and oral sex with an uncircumcised penis is disgusting to women."

FGM "An uncircumcised vulva is unclean and only the lowest prostitute would leave her daughter uncircumcised. No man would dream of marrying an unclean woman. He would be laughed at by everyone."

MGM"An uncircumcised penis is dirty and only the lowest class of people with no concept of hygiene leave their boys uncircumcised."

FGM"Leaving a girl uncircumcised endangers both her husband and her baby. If the baby's head touches the uncut clitoris during birth, the baby will be born hydrocephalic [excess cranial fluid]. The milk of the mother will become poisonous. If a man's penis touches a woman's clitoris he will become impotent."

MGM "Men have an obligation to their wives to give up their foreskin. An uncircumcised penis will cause cervical cancer in women. It also spreads disease."

FGM "A circumcised woman is sexually more pleasing to her husband. The tighter she is sewn, the more pleasure he has."

MGM "Circumcised men make better lovers because they have no more staying power than uncircumcised men."

FGM "All the women in the world are circumcised. It is something that must be done. If there is pain, then that is part of a woman's lot in life."

MGM"Men in all the 'civilized' world are circumcised." (these two are some of the scariest of all.)

FGM "Doctors do it, so it must be a good thing."

MGM "Doctors do it, so it must be a good thing."

FGM Sudanese grandmother: "In some countries they only cut out the clitoris, but here we do it properly. We scrape our girls clean. If it is properly done, nothing is left, other than a scar. Everything has to be cut away."

MGM My own father, a physician, speaking of ritual circumcision inflicted upon my son: "It is a good thing that I was here to preside. He had quite a long foreskin. I made sure that we gave him a good tight circumcision."

FGM 35 year old Sudanese woman: "Yes, I have suffered from chronic pelvic infections and terrible pain for years now. You say that all if this is the result of my circumcision? But I was circumcised over 30 years ago! How can something that was done for me when I was four years old have anything to do with my health now?"

MGM 35 years old American male: "I have lost nearly all interest in sex. You might say that I'm becoming impotent. I don't seem to have much sensation in my penis anymore, and it is becoming more and more difficult for me to reach orgasm. You say that this is the result of my circumcision? That doesn't make any sense. I was circumcised 35 years ago, when I was a little boy. How can that affect me in any way now?"


Genital mutilation leads to more child birth deaths

A new Australian study has shown that female genital mutilation leads to an increased risk of death in newborn babies.
The study has been published in medical journal, The Lancet, and involved more than 28,000 women in six African countries: Burkina Faso, Ghana, Kenya, Nigeria, Senegal and Sudan.
The author of the study, Australian National University Associate Professor Emily Banks, says the procedure causes an extra one to two deaths per 100 deliveries.
Professor Banks says the study’s results are being used in campaigns to try to stamp out the practice.
“What we’re seeing here is something that’s happening during labour, so I think it’s fair to say that there’s something about women who’ve had female genital mutilation that means that their labours don’t go as well and their babies are more likely to be distressed and they’re more likely to die,” she said.
Professor Banks says it is the most reliable study on the topic to date.
“There was quite a lot of questions about whether female genital mutilation really did impact on child birth, and now we know that it does,” she said.

I'd post a picture, but, oh, God, I don't know if it would be appropriate.

 

As I clarified in the other thread discussing this, the relation to "oppression from the white man" is that whites, especially types like those from Amnesty International, went in without understanding the cultural context and cultural logic behind the practice, and started trying to force people to stop practicing. Therefore, this practice, which has been performed since before whites went to Africa, became a symbol of opposition to oppression at the hands of whites.

So it's their cultural practice, hey whatever goes?

No. Abolishing it takes away their free choice, but I'm all for making people wait until they are able to make an informed decision (sort of like how we, in the US, can mutilate our bodies in any way we deem appropriate after we turn 18).

However, rushing in head first, without understanding WHY women continue to force this on their daughters, causes more harm than good -- as is shown by the reaction in which many cling more tightly to the practice as a rejection of white influence.

So why circumcision? In the US, male gential mutilation has become so commonplace that most of us don't even think about it. As time has passed and we became a more secular nation, I suspect most of us don't even realize the religious basis for the practice.

The mandate for male genital mutilation is found in the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible. Not being Christian or Jewish or a scholar of Judaism or Christianity, I'm not positive of the story, but I think it was Abraham who was told to sacrifice his son, but when he went to do so, god had mercy upon him and took just the foreskin as a sufficient sacrifice. God also commanded that all of Abraham's descendents, so all followers of Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) must perform this sacrifice to show devotion to God.

I don't personally know any devout, traditional Jews. The only Jews I know are reformed Jews, and I've not discussed circumcision with them... Does anyone here know any devout, traditional Jews who would willingly give up the practice of male circumcision, as commanded in their holiest book?

How likely is it that a devout follower who prefers a more literal interpretation will easily say "ok, sure, I'll stop circumcising my sons, just because some random stranger tells me they think it's barbaric. It was only commanded by my God, but hey, you think it's bad, so I'll stop." Not likely.

Same sort of problem with Amensty International people running into Africa and telling them to stop what they're doing. Without understanding then addressing the cultural background of the practice, you're not likely to get very far.

I don't know anyone who thinks that we should just sit back and not care about female circumcision (I was going to say "not care about genital mutilation, but I unfortunately don't know many people who DO care about stopping male genital mutilation). BUT, without understanding the culture, you're not likely to do much good and may do more harm.

And, as for the practice of female circumcision, Amnesty International is not a reliable source. They focus on the aspects that will get the most attention. They don't fairly represent the variation found -- only a minority get the most extreme version, which involves infibulation. Most only have the labia removed (which is not pleasant, but not as bad). In Saudia Arabia, the practice involves only a nip off the tip of the clit, and is generally performed in hospitals.

Furthermore, where allowed (which often means where activists have not pissed off the government officials), harm reduction workers distribute sanitary utensils, antibiotic ointments, and local anasthetics, which cuts down on the harm done, including spread of HIV and infections. NO, this doesn't make it all good, but harm reduction is better than nothing.

 

So you're saying that African pride causes them to cut off their nose to spite their face?

Seriously, it seems that Maggie and dawn-sky are arguing about what level of outrage is appropriate. Even if that question could be answered, it doesn't stop the mutilation of children.

Is there anything that people on this forum can do to stop genital mutilation? This is not rhetorical question. What avenues are there for action?

 

The first step, in my opinion, is to educate yourself. Not turn to organizations like Amnesty International to provide their spin on the research available. Actually go read the journal articles written by anthropologists and sociologists who work with women who choose to subject their children to this and who have experienced this. This isn't my area of specialization, but I have read a few articles on the topic -- some came across as more rhetoric than anything else, while others got at the cultural context, the cultural rationalization behind the practice.

Based on what you learn there, look for organizations that are attempting to improve the situation while considering the cultural context. Those who scream the loudest about how horrible it is generally are the least effective. It will probably take some searching to find anyone doing anything particularly productive -- I don't know of anyone, but their work has been mentioned (in passing, not with specifics) in articles I've read, so they're out there, just smaller operations than Amnesty International.

Then, learn what you can do to support those organizations that are taking measures that seem most effective.

Sounds like a lot of work, doesn't it? Unfortunately, saving the world was never meant to be as easy as just clicking a couple of links and donating to whoever is screaming the loudest about a problem. Just reacting is easy, actually doing something effective takes a lot of effort to understand HOW to actually help.

 

That is part of what I am saying. I don't really think AI "runs in" they do plenty of research and have done a lot of stop torture ect world wide. I mean, should we stop them from going into Abu Grahib prison, or Gitmo Bay, just because torture of foreign prisoners is part of Military USA "Culture?"

IMO, no.

But, everybody has a right to their opinion........especially when they still possess their own clitoris, in it's original condition. I still have mine, so the argument is more cerebral to most who have not experienced the horror of the torture that occurs to children who have no say in the matter. But, I still care. MORE about the children than some "culture" that thinks that Gential Mutilation and Slavery are fine, and practices them with abandon. I care more about the innocent and the nonconsenting.

Mike, you asked what we can do? Well, for one, my son is NOT circed,that much is IN my control, and I counsel the womyn I work with not to circ, with plenty of info from many sources. That is a start.