Some 4-aco-dmt observations

I ended up getting 2gm of 4-aco-dmt from two different vendors and tried vendor M 3 times at 20mg/25mg/30mg and vendor S once last night at 30mg.

It seemed about on par with what people report. A DMT leaning mushroom trip. It did still have some of the confusion at times like mushrooms to me, but maybe a little less. Mushrooms vary widely to me, so I don't think I'd be surprised at all if I had the exact same experience after eating mushrooms.

One thing that was pretty interesting was how different the timing was when having it in a gelcap vs drinking it with water. In the gelcap, it came on within a half hour, but came up much more slowly. It wasn't until may 1.5 hours that full effects were felt. With water on vendor M it was much more like mushrooms where there was a steep come up and levelling. It definitely seemed like vendor M was much more mild, but I only tried S once and it was on an empty stomach. (M has much better ratings on SOS, but I'd say for potency S was at least on par.)

Last night I tried vendor S, with 30mg in water (it didn't really dissolve as well as vendor M, so more like floating in water) on an empty stomach. The come up was very harsh and fast. Within 15minutes I was tripping with pretty strong visual. In a half hour, I was pretty overwhelmed and lay down in the dark for a while.

It crossed my mind that I or the vendor made a mistake since I also got 25i from the same vendor, and he doesn't label the bag with the chemical, but a paper envelop around the chemical. So....I thought 30mg of 25i....I'll live... By 30 minutes I was pretty sure that wasn't the case since I was still there.

The visuals while lying down were very DMT like, but also not too far off from a strong mushroom trip. I found myself ruminating about something earlier in the day, but was enjoying it to some extent because I was observing it and acknowledging it in order to disarm it. 5 minutes later, I'd catch myself back ruminating again and smile at the concept.

At one point in the dark, I felt pretty nauseous. I was pretty sure I was going to puke, but it subsided soon.

Finally I felt comfortable enough to navigate my way out of the dark, and come down stairs. I knew my wife would probably be going to sleep soon, and I wanted to see her and chat a little before then, just to have some human contact. She is pretty good for someone who never tripped. She doesn't ask much, just how is everything going. We discuss how nice it is out and I decide to get on a few coats and go outside.

It was crisp, but I bundled up, and went to the back yard and sat on the hammock. The sky was incredibly clear. There's a lot of light pollution near my house, but the moon and the clouds were gone, so there were hundreds of stars. The closer I looked, the more faint twinkling I saw in the spots between stars. I saw at least one meteor, but it was before midnight, so it was faint.

There was such joy and I felt incredibly alive outside. Probably partly in contrast from laying in the dark. I have to go outside more often at night.

After laying on the hammock for a while, I walked to the front of the house. The streetlights are pretty bright up there, and the Japanese maple and wisteria are just getting their full leaves. They both glowed and were so beautiful. It was a feeling of rebirth and a joy like finding an oasis after being in a dark wasteland. (I noticed how much nicer the wisteria looked now with glowing leaves than it did when I took too much 25i, and it was a tangle of branches too difficult to look at.)

I hung out there, and considered taking a walk, but was a little paranoid of running into a neighbour with saucer eyes, so I stuck in the yard. Eventually I headed back in refreshed and happy, and told my wife about how beautiful and clear it was.

I was still ruminating on this slightly socially awkward experience earlier in the day. I was learning a lot thinking about it, but still kept feeling like I was thinking about it too much. I think partly because I've been reading research lately about stress and peoples ability to let things go...and a little about mindful walking/breathing. I started to think about what drives my thoughts when not tripping, and realizing how often I'm not aware of being driven by my thoughts.

It started to drop off very quickly at that point. About 3.5 hours after taking it. The harsh come-up lead to a quick drop, very similar to mushroom tea. I felt a little sad it was ending, but it was getting late, and I had hoped to sleep last night, so I was okay with it.

I had some wine, and drank a glass or two a little bit quickly, and then went downstairs to scrape up some THC. I haven't had weed in a while, happily, so it was hard to find something, but was able to get pretty stoned just as bike day was turning to 4-20.

At this point the trip was pretty much over, but I was still experiencing a lot of visuals and tracers. If I hadn't been tripping so hard earlier, what I was experiencing would probably feel like full tripping, but by contrast it was pretty much over. I sat at the computer and was amusing myself and watching cursor trails when suddenly I felt very dizzy.

I was so dizzy I felt like I was going to pass out, so I quickly got up and lay down on my back. I was really worried I would slump over and fall off the chair.

This feeling was a little disheartening. Even after laying down, I still felt dizzy and was trying to think what could be happening. I'm a little hypochondriac-ish sometimes and a little paranoid of RCs, so things like lack of oxygen and stoke crossed my mind. Finally I realized that maybe I was hypoglycemic and got a glass of straight grape juice. I splashed a little water on my face and drank the juice and felt much better, but still a little off.

I think this is the same pass-out that a lot of people experience on mushrooms, but luckily I didn't quite passout. Looking back, earlier in the night when I was in the dark and quickly turned on the light for a minute, it was almost a white-out experience.

I lay down again and fell asleep for a few hours on the couch before heading up to bed.

So, it was a pretty amazing night and an experience to remember. I would say that the vendor S seemed much different, and when I take S again I'll probably go with 20mg, especially if I take it with a friend. It was a little bit too overwhelming, which was fine, but it would be harder to leave a friend and lay down than it was by myself.

Vendor Ms seemed much less harsh, not necessarily less potent somehow. The passing out feeling and nausea was not so nice on S. Although it didn't taint the experience much at all, it still makes me want to be more careful with it.

Both were very emotional, but in a very positive way. On 30mg of M a week or two ago, I had a really good connection with my wife, which still seems to have a positive impact.

Today, I have a slight knot in my stomach, not unlike what mushrooms can do, but much more delayed.

For me 4-aco-dmt is a pretty nice substance. I like it much better than my recently firsttime 25i experiences, and it seems a little easier to deal with than mushrooms. I have some 2c-e and 2c-i which I haven't tried in ages, so I can't really compare, but I think I'll revisit those soon. LSD is still really my favorite, but tripping as hard as I did on the 4-aco-dmt is much more of a time commitment, so I can see the advantage of 4-aco-dmt.

Dosage wise, I'd say 30mg from vendor S on an empty stomach was similar to at least 5gm dried cubes. So, I'd be careful recommending 30mg for someone's first time. 20mg of M was probably about 3gm dried cubes with 30mg a little over an 8th (At least the cubes I get.)

 

Your observations very much correlates with my experience, I refer to it as being similar to a 'hollowed' out mushroom trip, feels like it sheds some of the heavyness in the body, and lifts some of the dreamy mental and visual fog I get from shrooms.

My doses dont really correllate tho but mushrooms can have a fair amount of variability in dose/response. Both your vendors have fumarate? I've only had fumarate and 30 mgs I spent at a concert which felt equivalent to at most 3 grams of mushies.

That's strange you thought you mixed it up with your 25i, made me think of the blind taste test thread. I agree with 4-aco-dmt being a powerful emotionally charged experience, checking out the stars on a hammock sounds like it must've absolutuley beautiful.

 

I was kind of surprised at how strong the 30mg was for me. Either I'm becoming a complete lightweight, or it's very good quality, or something... It was pretty serious, not something I'd want to be at a concert for.

Maybe that blind taste test thread planted the seed for that initial parnoia. It also came on so fast and strong.

 

I don't think there would be situation in which I would take 30mg of 4acodmt in public lol. That is for sure a serious dose, you are not a lightweight. Wine + 4aces can also cause nausea/light head.

 

I've wondered in my case, if some of these things have lost potency over time or if I've gained tolerance. I'm certain there's a bit of the latter.
Last year I saw Shpongletron w/30mg of aces and I did indeed trip very hard.
Even though it was a very public setting it was pretty psy-friendly and the music was magical. I had a number of experiences last year in the 30-35 range that were quite heavy and psychedelic including one on the islands. The last few, at even greater amounts have been substantially milder. There's been a few times where trips weren't spaced out very much but have also gone several weeks between so I really can't say. I sort of feel like the only way I could nail down the difference between loss of potency and tolerance would be to go maybe 2 years, then try 30mg.

 

I'm definitely avoiding any wine next time. It's not uncommon for me to smoke or drink a little at the end to help with sleep...but it did not mix well this time.

(BTW: both were fumarate.)

(An edit, just for clarity...not worth a whole post: I didn't drink any wine or even smoke until things were starting to wind down a little. I only felt dizzy after the wine, but did have a twinge of nausea long before that. That feeling of white-out was long before too, but I had just went from a very dark room into bright light, so it's likely it was just my eyes adjusting while my world was crumbling.)

 

i am gonna show this to my friend "pat"

"suddenly I felt very dizzy.

I was so dizzy I felt like I was going to pass out, so I quickly got up and lay down on my back. I was really worried I would slump over and fall off the chair.

This feeling was a little disheartening. Even after laying down, I still felt dizzy and was trying to think what could be happening. I'm a little hypochondriac-ish sometimes and a little paranoid of RCs, so things like lack of oxygen and stoke crossed my mind. Finally I realized that maybe I was hypoglycemic and got a glass of straight grape juice. I splashed a little water on my face and drank the juice and felt much better, but still a little off.

I think this is the same pass-out that a lot of people experience on mushrooms, but luckily I didn't quite passout. Looking back, earlier in the night when I was in the dark and quickly turned on the light for a minute, it was almost a white-out experience."

sounds a bit like what he experienced on 30.5 mg (+ a hit of L, booze and pot)

i guess i didn't know it was so strong, and i gave each of my friends a little too much. maybe could have went with 25 and 20, instead of 30 and 26.

i won't mix this one again either. 'cept with weed.


my doses don't seem to match up with mushrooms either, but i have little experience with them. i would say for ME, 25 mg is like 1-1.5 grams of shrooms, ~33 is maybe like 2g, and 45 mg was roughly like an eighth, maybe a half eighth, depending on potency.

 

So....me and an old friend took ~30mg each of the M (what I thought was less potent).

He talked me into 30, even though I was planning on 25. I was a little bit underwhelmed because I was expecting a lot, but tripped pretty nicely. He definitely tripped very hard, and was literally speechless for about 1.5 hours. (I had no trouble with that...it was funny because later on he said he felt a little weird not talking, so he wanted to make sure then, that it would be okay if he didn't talk next time we trip.)

We took a couple of walks which were fun and amazing. Drizzling some of the time. Had some amazing realizations about life and drugs. All together a great night.

(I mentioned to him that some equated 30mg to < 8th of shrooms, and he felt like it was more like 5 grams or something.)

He had a great time. A few times towards the middle/end of the peak, he said he could never feel any more content and good than he was feeling. He was really coming to the realization that everything was okay, and will always be.

 

what's "the M?" less potent i see, but what does M mean?

that sounds like a great experience peacegrow.

i've shared 4acodmt (fumarate) with 4 people now. my brother (36 mg) had a good trip, but said he didn't like it that much compared to L. my one friend loved it (37 mg), and two other friends DID NOT. one took 30 mg, 9 hours after we took LSD, and after drinking...and lost consciousness for ~30 seconds. the other is not really cut out for tripping, and he took ~25 mg after drinking, and had a bad trip where he had to "face every misdeed" he's ever done. even though he had a bad trip, i think he got some personal growth from that experience.

those last two were bad decisions on my part (and theirs, i mean...i didn't FORCE FEED them haha)

for me, i think ~30 mg is like ~ 2 grams of mushrooms?
45 mg was maybe like an eighth. very hard to say though...so i should just erase that.

i don't have much experience with either, and no shrooms for a few years. shrooms vary a LOT in potency. and individuals in biochemistry..

 

Good TR peacegrow. 4-aces has emerged as my favorite RC - dosing ~25 mg. I'm in the same situation with my wife not tripping. I seldom trip around her as she tends to be concerned and ask difficult questions like, "How are you?"

 

^^^i'll soon be in the same situation, with my wife not tripping

my girlfriend has tripped several times before, she even tripped a few times as my fiance, but i think she's pretty much done with it.

 

I got 2 grams, one from vendor M and the other from vendor S. I am under the impression that M's is a little less potent. S's was the 30mg that was almost too much for me...that was the only time I took S.

I am also suspecting that not smoking weed really makes me trip much harder. We didn't smoke much the last time, but I had been smoking pretty regularly all week. The time 30mg seemed very powerful to me, I hadn't smoked weed for at least a week.

It was a great time. My friend really had a wonderful experience. He was really into going to a pool hall or bar to play pool before we dropped. I told him at 30mg, it's pretty unlikely that he will want to go. I think he knows what I mean now.

Congratulations on being newly married. (It takes at least 5 years to get used to the word wife... https://www.myspace.com/pablopicassowasnevercalledanasshole/music/songs/when-i-say-wife-82758846 )

 

Interesting that you say that 45 mg was an eighth out in the first page somewhere pork. Writer [I think that's who] says 30mg is heavy. I would put an eighth of mushrooms between 25 and 30mg but it's apples and oranges. Maybe we all just need to get mushrooms where pork's getting them and get this high-> :dizzy2:

I especially liked the "length of experience" @ 3.5 hours. That is the first time I've ever seen someone else comment the short duration that we experienced a long time ago from out-of-business vendor.

I've been thinking on some of these RCs if its possible there's a limit. Like once you take 45+mgs, would 100mgs or even 200mgs really be that much stronger than the 45? I don't want anyone to do something they normally wouldn't do based off this comment as it is only speculation, but what I felt on 4-HO-MiPT a trip nearly the same power from 17mg as from 34mg for example.

 

There seems to be a ceiling effect or leveling out effect for psychedelics in general. I've read sources that claim 200 ugs LSD trips can potentially produce a stronger trip than 500 ugs LSD trips. Set and setting really are primary factors that play into your trips. I've found that effects tend to gain intensity as dose increases but more on a curve rather than at a consistent rate, so like where 25 mgs 2ce might feel 5x more powerful than 10 mgs 2ce, 50 mgs 2ce feels maybe 2x more powerful than 25 mgs.

 

^ That seems like it make sense since there is a limited number of receptors. I remember hearing somewhere that more than 1000ug (or maybe 2000ug) was the max for serotonin receptors with LSD, and that the rest was mostly waisted, rather than extending the trip or anything.

I think I might have started the comparison between mushrooms and 4-aco-dmt. (or maybe I read it first...) Now I can see that it is a bad idea to compare. The main reason I wanted to try 4-aco-dmt in the first place was because mushroom dosing is so variable. While on average, an eighth seems like a medium strong trip, I've definitely had very strong experiences on less, and lighter experiences on more. (And these were all cubes.) Even the same batch, same strain, maybe even same cake and flush can vary a lot. So...comparing something so variable to something else just doesn't work.

Unless maybe you're comparing how variable they can be. It seems like 4-aco-dmt may be a little bit variable for me, but I need to experience it some more with consistent doses and batches to be sure.

 

45 mg of 4aces really didn't get me THAT far out there. i mean, it was a great trip...
after thinking about it, i dunno why i said that. i was quite a strong trip, i couldn't do much but lay on the couch near the peak, couldn't bring myself to really walk near the beginning. i actually don't recall much of the walk in the park. i'd like to go back and find the posts i made about the trip, the next day. but i don't think i made a new thread, it's buried in the bump thread.

my point was, i don't think the shrooms i got were that great all the time. the last shrooms i had were only "decent" potency, and an eighth was still "more menacing" than 45 mg 4aces.

 

Yeah for sure. IMHO its easier to fall into bad trip off the shrooms, because they become a part of your thoughts, it seems it works from the foundation up. But if you consider 4-AcO-DMT you can be slightly less emotionally attached to the trip its more controllable. It is IMHO like the difference dumping water on top of a garage[4ace] or going to the inside with a fire hose and saturating it[shrooms].

 

1st Paragraph: The first time I tried it this happened to me but it abruptly stopped. I took 30-40mg if I remember correctly. I had NO effects for the rest of the night. I chalked it up to perhaps being degraded despite the color being good.

I know I have told this story before so the regulars already have heard this but I tried it twice more from two separate vendors not including the first one. The second time I took 50mg's and experienced a very very light mushroom-esque trip. I had to really cut down on outside stimulation besides music to get mediocre effects.

I was VERY disappointed and racked my brain as to why this chemical isn't working for me. This batch and the previous batch worked for my friends (one friend the first time and a second friend that second time.) I was so confused and thought that maybe the fact that they were relatively new to psychedelics and I having 10+ years worth of experience behind me that maybe I am a bit hardened.

My third and final attempt I decided to go balls deep and took over 80mgs. To my dismay I had an experience similar to my last, a tad more powerful but nothing as mind blowing as what everyone raves on about the chemical.

I wish I knew what was wrong with my brain. Maybe some people are immune to certain chemicals. Mushrooms, 4-HO-Mipt, DMT, and 4-HO-MET work perfectly fine.

So, I live vicariously through TR's like these and the discussion to follow. (Sorry this was so long. I am a bit stoned at the moment and tend to talk a lot lol)

On to paragraph 2: That is a VERY scary feeling. I have been there once with MXE. I thought the vendor may have mislabeled the bag because I was way way too high considering the amount I took. Turned out my scale's batteries were low and miscalculated. From then on I make sure fresh batteries are in the scale! :2thumbsup:

 

^^^did you have freebase? i've heard of that being weaker, but probably not that weak

 

Fumerate.