So What Does "being Christian" Actually Mean To You>?

I was thinking about this question.

Now firstly, I think most of us in Europe/N America/related places (ie usually non immigrants etc) are actually Christian, to some level or other.

But what I refer to in my question is people who make a specific point of it. They go to church, pray a lot, and specifically point it out in various ways. Unfortunately, my experiences of THIS group haven't always been great. Infact, in some cases, far from it.

This is what troubles/confuses me. I CERTAINLY don't blame Christianity, the exact opposite infact. But why is it Christianity teaches good traits. And then you get people who claim to be devout, but show even the exact OPPOSITE of Christian principles.

I could list lots I've come across personally - a sicko priest, politicians, gangsters of the most unpleasant type, a bullying priest who was a teacher, psycho exes, and then hypocritical windbags etc. Sure there are appalling non Christians and appalling people who are "privately Christian" too.

But why should more open/supposedly "devout" Christians have a higher incidence of bad traits, atleast in my experience?
It really puzzles me.

And also, if you ARE Christian (publicly, privately, devoutly or whatever) what does it mean to you? How does it affect the way you live your life/act towards others etc?

 

It means being outdated.

 

Christianity isn't outdated in any way. Some of the sick Establishment driven fads ARE however.

I'm asking Christians (public/private, devout or non etc) why some supposedly devout Christians seem to be people I have had problems with.

 

maybe it's you and not the Christians that are the source of the problem?

If you have issues with different people, what is the one common denominator in the equation?--------YOU

 

People are primarily human individuals, not their religious affiliation. So when you wonder how can a supposedly good christian do nasty things you just keep in mind they're subject to the same stuff other people are: jealousy, greed, urges etc. etc. etc.

The flesh is weak

To primarily see them as a devout christian and hold it against them when they too act upon primal urges, like hey you're a christian, why does this happen?? is rather funny to me. It's not that they become immune to anything or receive an unlimited amount of discipline out of their faith or something.

Higher than who exactly? Every non christian?

You ask why. But.... why not? And... are they the only ones you had problems with? So they are just people like anybody else. It almost seems that you are suprised by this or as if this doesn't compute because they're 'christian'

 

Bit of a daft comment? ; ) I have "issues" with murderers too. Does that mean it was my fault they murdered people?

One was a Catholic priest - a paedophile.
Another was an anglican reverend - he left the school because he used to pull girls hair/guys hair/bully kids - just a nutter. I'd never spoken a word to him, no axe to grind.
Another was a psycho - really hot, but most people seemed to avoid her. I was told beforehand "dont waste your time with her".
Another was a gangster. Now most gangsters play straight against "civilians". This one didnt, he threatened to kill an old guy who was his neighbour for no reason. He was a druggie too.
Devout Christian - came close to being struck off as a doctor in TWO countries. fraudster +other things.
Lay Anglican preacher - child molester, politician who covered up scandals.
Evangelical church member - broke off contact with his own adopted son for reasons most fathers would not.
Plenty of others.

I don't think I need to go on! But it looks like you think you know these people better than me... Hmmm..

Again, this isn't condemning Christianity. Quite the opposite infact, because I privately describe myself as Christian.
I'm just thinking of the ones I've known who were openly "devout". Not all were bad, but overall, the group was not as good as "private Christians".

 

Well one of my suspicions is that the more "openly devout" ones are creatures of extremes. In Britain and many countries, most Christians don't go to a church.

I think sometimes Christianity is abused as a "public relations gimmick" eg Tony Blair.
But also, supposedly "devout Christians" are prone to rage, psychosis, self righteousness, and other things. Maybe they think by being devout, it stops them "falling over the edge"?
Its sad that Christianity gets the rap for this, when the individuals should.

I just wonder about why it happens. And what other Christians views are on how they should be towards others.

 

Maybe you can explain first what being a christian means to you and how it affects your life?

How do you know how 'good' other private christians are when they are private about it?

So the pedophile was an alcoholic. The psycho was a psycho. The ganster was a gangsta. They all happened to be christian and they probably know what they did in the examples you gave that it was not entirely ok. Just when most other people in our society commit this stuff. Why does it happen then anyway? Because being christian does not sudddenly change being primarily human

For every self righteous devout christian you can find a self righteous non christian. It just means being a devout christian (or being considered to be one ) doesn't change shit by default, even when we're perhaps taught they ought to be the best people in society In that way I agree with Noxious, it is how you perceive them. We can think that devout or good christians are less prone to rage, psychosis, rape, selfishness etc. etc. etc. but that is our thoughts misleading us. People are always primarily people, wether they are christian, satanist, hindu or whatever.

It is good to realize that everything that can be abused by people will be tried to get abused by people (happily not ALL people ), politics, religion, the economy, 'even' education. Sometimes it is sad that the organisation/facilities that are abused get the responsility or a bad rep for it, but sometimes it is very logical and understandable.
Like with pedophile priests, the church is not directly to blame. The church rejects this practice just as much as anybody else. Yet, it can be argued that the rule that these priests are supposed to practice abstinence is part of why SOME of them are indeed sexually abusing kids. Also a thought: as homosexuality (and esp. giving in to it) was even less accepted in the past certain gays might have chosen the priesthood because it seemed the most practical solution to avoid certain issues to them....

 

Well to me, its about showing restraint, holding my temper, helping people less fortunate. Using any abilities I have for the community and world in general. And doing something to help those who are abused/exploited/whatever. But it also means holding back/keeping out of some things when there's no single answer or its too close to call. Its not even about a "team" of whatever religion. Just certain ways of acting. Thinking how my actions AND inactions might affect others. I mean I'm not a saint, but I don't go out of my way to be a complete shit either. To me its more about the long term aim, rather than just day to day. Trying to do the right thing, even if I dont "want" to.

I'm not saying that all devout Christians are bad. Far from it. There are very good ones too. Some of my best friends are devout. But I can think of one who was actually prone to bouts of violence when he was younger - AFTER he considered becoming a priest too.

I remember a couple of devout Christians saying to me "being Christian doesn't mean being a nice person". In other words, "its ok to be a piece of shit". I just thought "what sort of bible do YOU read". I found it really shocking.

Finally, I used to think "such and such is very devout, I'm sure I'll find they're a very nice person when I get to know them better". Then I got to know them and thought "oops I was WRONG on that one". This is at the heart of what I'm trying to express. Like a flat feeling. They read a big book and you think "did they learn a single thing"..?

 

Years ago I used to work for a bookmaker who was also a practising Catholic. That in itself might seem like something of a contradiction, as gambling isn't usually encouraged by Christians. He was also a very heavy drinker, probably the heaviest I ever met. Overall though he was an OK type of person, and usually happy or at least jovial.

He used to tell me 'only one perfect man ever lived, and they killed him'.

Probably, he had a point. At least in Christian terms. However, if I could talk with him again now, I'd have to remind him of the injunction 'be ye perfect'. But in actuality nobody, Christian, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu or atheist gets to be perfect.

 

Perfection is subjective, it is not an absolute thing.

I disagree with your rephrasing. Indeed, being a christian doesn't mean being a nice person by definition/default at all! Being a christian means being a christian and even then it appears it means different things: one person is a christian mainly because of the words of Jesus, another because they believe in the holy trinity and that Jesus has died for our sins.

 

not at all.
most folks tend to forget that they are the common denominator in their dealings with other people.
so I always ask this if a person has issues with certain other types or groups of people.
first place to look for answers is in the mirror.

 

However that might be (and it was JC not me who used the word), I think the issue here for the OP is some concept of moral perfection or at least improvement being an integral part of Christianity, and the fact that he's encountered Christians for whom that isn't important.

It always seems to me that when Jesus told people to be perfect, it was meant as a kind of ideal towards which his followers should strive. Probably, he knew he was setting the bar high, and thus giving his followers something at which they could aim.

 

Wouldn't being a Christian mean being resolved to be nice to people?

 

For most perhaps. But for most people in our society who aren't christian just the same. Except people are more suprised when a christian person is not nice to others. I can see how they get there but to me it doesn't make a difference.

It's like when people get more pissed about a muslim drinking a beer than any other person. Because muslims are not supposed to drink alcohol. But why should that matter or make any difference to to other people? I guess because they are troubled that this simplification that they all ought to subscribe to in theory does not seem to work in reality. Therefor muslims that drink alcoholic beers are faulty muslims... according to nonreligious people who enjoy beer Dude, just let the muslim person enjoy his beer and take some thought why you have a problem with it exactly is my advice. Is it a problem for you? Why exactly?

 

It doesn't surprise me when Christians are not nice, or bother me if a Muslim wants to drink. To me as an individual it makes no real difference. In terms of the wider credibility of the respective religions, it may well make a difference. It might make a difference too for the Christian or Muslim concerned, as it seems they'd be going against the tenets of their respective religions. But again, that's their own affair.

But I do think that if being a Christian doesn't mean being nice to other people it means nothing at all.

 

The christians that exemplified real christianity in my life never announced that they were. Ever. I discovered that they were by accident. They didn't have to preach it--they lived it. I admire the type.

 

To you, a non christian. Because you think they are ought to be. But every christian is subject to the human experience like any other individual. They may change even though it is not by choice.

Doesn't it all depend on the particular person (that happens to be christian, which are ought to be nice) and why exactly they are not nice?

Can't a traumatized christian for example no longer be a proper christian (by their own or fellow christians merits) because they lost the ability to be nice to everyone? It's not about being nice for certain christians, it is about being a christian (whatever that means, but it does not necessarily means being nice )

 

I have a close friend who used to be in the army (saw action in the first gulf war), he was certainly a very committed soldier, however when he left the forces he followed his grandfather & became a vicar! He has no issue with the fact that I do not go to church & have strongly held beliefs that religion is the root of a lot of evils in this world, however he says that i am still a christian as many church goers can be quite selfish, nasty people, intolerant & bigoted. It is what you do & how you behave towards your fellow man that makes you christian. I agree with him.

 

Partly. It's also their beliefs regarding Jesus. Otherwise a person is just a social and constructive member of society, not a christian.