Discussion in 'America Attacks!' started by Chris L, Jan 14, 2005.
I've heard some small talk about it. Anyone know anyhting at all? I'm extremely interested.
While I'm a big proponent of secession, I don't see it happening in the near future.
these stupid jokes and rumors arent even funny.
I have heard talk of that from Democrats, but it's not going to happen obviously.
im down for secession.
I don't see what difference it would make. The way I look at it, it doesn't make any difference whether Bush is president or some other crook. They all share the same exact agenda.
I think some people envision a "liberal" utopia with John Kerry as their president, which is just silly.
we could probably make more progress without the conservative nutjobs... but that doesnt mean I want john kerry to be president... he is like #4 on my hatred list... right after george bush, the pope, and pat robertson
It's the complete destruction of the US that you're after ???? and that will benefit you how ?????
States do not have the right to secede, I belive the civil war straightened that issue out.
Yes I heard about New England seceding. Something to do with tea and taxes I think.
My computer's very slow.
I really wish all the pussyhurt liberals who said they were going to leave the coutnry if Bush was re-elected would leave. Why take away a some states that almost vote 45% percent republican? Just go to Canada, then we can completely reverse the New Deal programs and the Great Society.
Democracy is supposed to mean majority rule and minority rights. New England is in the minority here, but these states have no rights. Why should they put up with this? Indeed, they shouldn't have to. Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, and Vermont should not have to accept someone else's choice of presidential contender. They should be free to exercise the right of self-government, and to live under a president of their own choosing.
Your forefathers decried being taxed to support a government that ruled without consent. Their solution was to declare independence from Great Britain. A long train of abuses and usurpations convinced them it was time to exercise the right to abolish that particular form of government and establish another. They did so in a peaceful act of secession. If the Brits hadn't objected, the transition would have been an easy one.
Secede, New England! Form your own country. Declare your independence. Lay out your grievances and decry the tyranny of living under the rest of the US. Invoke the rights of man and decry inequality under the law. You have the natural right to pursue happiness in a manner you see fit. You don't even have to pledge your lives, fortunes, or sacred honor. Most everyone will be glad to see you go your own way. No objection here.
You have a thriving economy, a marvelous history of civic involvement, and a regional consciousness that befits a free and independent people. Free of the burden to support those poor Southerners.
But isn't secession a radical step and a total departure from history? Not if you look at New England's history. The idea of secession was hatched there. When Jefferson was elected in 1800, he was denounced by Yankee preachers as the Anti-Christ because he favored the strict separation of church and state. "He was hated with an unholy hate," writes a Jefferson biographer. There was also an ethnic dimension: most New Englanders were of English stock and they were terrified of mixing with the German, Irish, and Scottish blood predominant in the lower states, to say nothing of the blacks in the deep South.
Tensions between the Yankees and the rest of the country grew until New Englanders threatened secession in 1803, barely one generation after the Constitution had been ratified. They objected to the expensive and expansionist Louisiana Purchase, and truly they had a point. This executive usurpation dramatically altered the relationship among the states. Worse, Jefferson undertook it without consulting Congress and without attaining agreement among the states.
Under the plan, the New England secessionists didn't envision economic isolation. They wanted free trade with the rest of the country but no entangling political alliances -- exactly as George Washington proposed with regard to the rest of the world. Separating right then would have spared decades of heartache to follow. Alas, it was not to be because Aaron Burr, the secessionist point man, lost his race to be the governor of New York, and his victorious duel with Hamilton discredited their cause, for the moment.
Jefferson fulfilled the worst of New England expectations when he imposed a trade embargo in 1806, in retaliation for a British capture of an American ship. But what was New England to do without trade? Why should its commercial aspirations be sacrificed at the hands of a tyrant? Secessionist tempers already inflamed, matters got worse under James Madison, who in 1809 imposed a rule that permitted the arbitrary seizure of goods. The Yankee secessionists struck back with a declaration that "any state is at liberty by the spirit of (the Constitution) to withdraw itself from the union." Darn right.
The next major attempt at New England secession was over the War of 1812. By the time Washington, D.C., was captured and burned by the British in 1813, New England was in an uproar. Most historians say that nearly everyone wanted to form a New England Confederacy. The result was the great Hartford Convention of 1815, but the political leaders betrayed the just aspirations of the citizens who sent them there. Still, they took step after step closer towards full secession, but by the time it appeared close to becoming a reality, the war ended.
Later, New England abolitionists in the American Anti-Slavery Society found they could not, in good conscience, be part of a country that permitted slavery. At the same time, they didn't want to risk mass immigration of blacks into their neck of the woods. The Society passed a resolution: "Resolved, that secession from the United States Government is the duty of every Abolitionist." They further said that the dissolution of the American Union was "one of the primary objects" of their anti-slavery agitation.
If New England wants to secede this time, and avoid oppression by a country that clearly does not share its values, it should be free to go. No questions asked. Go your own way. You can all still be friends. You can still trade. The United States is vastly too big as it is. It should have been broken up into a few pieces much earlier. You could use a little more competition between independent political units.
The Constitution was supposed to be a voluntary compact among the states. Show us the way, New England, and secede now!
What about states like Maine that went for Bush? Should they be forced into the McCain governmental orbit solely because of an accident of geography? Of course not. Non- contiguous nation states are perfectly feasible, especially with modern communications technology. For that matter, there is no reason to limit the right to secede to states.In the end, the principle that should dictate the future is the one laid out by our first secessionists: it is the right of a people to alter the form of government under which they live if it no longer protects their rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
Secede, New England! You have nothing to lose but your chains!
Llewellyn H. Rockwell Jr .( not complete)
The Civil War was 140 years ago. Don't you think that maybe old ideas deserve a little rethinking after that amount of time?
Well, it happened with the south, and almost happened with South Carolina. SO who knows??
Again, go ahead and sucede. We can conquer you and enforce policies favorable to the rest of the American populace.
soliloquy that was a very good read.
Might try checking the electoral results again, Maine (as with the rest of New England) went for Kerry.
As great as that may sound, I doubt it will happen. To be honest, I think it would be pretty cowardly to secede from the U.S. New England would be giving in to the establishment, not getting away from it. If they want to fix their dilemma with the government, they need to conquer it by facing it head-on.
How is breaking away from the current establishment giving into the establishment? That makes absolutely no sense.
If we ever did secede, It can't be with john kerry or other current leaders of New England. Everythign has to start from scratch. All laws must be passed by ordinary people. The middle class. The ones who are being oppressed should have all the power. THe ones who fought should have all the power. Not the ones who were in power before it started in the first place. So, John Kerry, Mitt Romney, Ted Kennedy and others can all go fuck themselves. If anyhitng ever happened...the country would be OUR country, not theirs.
Anyone get what I'm saying right now? I know I dont...
Separate names with a comma.