Scientific proof God exist.

Discussion in 'Christianity' started by rebelfight420, May 23, 2007.

  1. rebelfight420

    rebelfight420 Banned

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    The Strong and Modified Weak Anthropic Principles: Scientific Proof there is a Creator

    The Anthropic Principles point out that there are over one hundred variables to this Universe, that would have made life as we know it impossible, if they were even slightly different. Either this Universe had to be finely tuned to the conditions that make the evolution of life possible, or there have to be googolplexes of Universes.

    Consider the following analogy.

    If you went down the street and saw a quarter on the sidewalk, you would think naturally, "someone dropped a quarter." If you went down the street and saw a handful of quarters on the sidewalk, you would think, "Someone had a big hole in their pockets, or dropped a roll of quarters." But if you went down the street and saw one hundred quarters on the sidewalk and they were all carefully balanced precariously on their edges, you would have to think somebody did this deliberately. The Universe as we know it, is that carefully balanced. This theory is known as the Strong Anthropic Principle. The only possibility other than this Universe was created, is there are so many universes that the equivalent of one hundred quarters falling out of someone's pocket and ALL of them ending up balanced on their edges occurred, completely by random chance. This theory is known as the, "Weak Anthropic Principle." So if you are a rational thinker here are your only two choices. Either this Universe was created , or that there are multitudes of Universes.

    Now here is what I call the Modified Weak Anthropic Principle. If there are that many Universes, then the chances of a Being Like God evolving would also be equally increased by all that abundance. Ecological niches tend not to stay empty. You could, of course call such a Being something other than "God." But if it quacks like a Cosmic Duck and waddles like a Cosmic Duck and builds little universe nests that produce baby Cosmic Ducklings, why not call it a Cosmic Duck? Paul did say we grow into Christ! (Ephesians 4:15).

    The Blind watchmaker may have started out blind, some universe somewhere, some when, but He/She/It evolved eyes right along with the rest of Life, and you can be quite sure sure, He/She/It will do whatever is necessary to guarantee His/Her/Its own development and continued survival, just the same as any other Life Form would. God does not play dice. He Plays poker, and He continually stacks the deck in His favor! Or, if we say He plays dice, He throws so many some are bound to land with the right numbers up."

    To name just a few of the finely tuned variables that are mentioned in the books, "God the Evidence," by Patrick Glynn, John Leslie, in Universes" and from George Greenstein's "The Symbiotic Universe."

    Gravity is roughly 1039 times weaker than electromagnetism. If gravity had been merely 1033 times weaker than electromagnetism, stars would be a billion times less massive and would burn a million times faster. Leslie, page 5.

    The nuclear weak force is 1028 times the strength of gravity. Had the weak force been slightly weaker, all the hydrogen in the universe would have been turned to helium (making water impossible, for example). Leslie, page 24. Leslie got this information from P.C. W. Davies, 1980 (Other Worlds), pp. 176-177.

    "A stronger nuclear strong force (by as little as 2 percent) would have prevented the formation of protons, --yielding a universe without atoms. Decreasing it by 5 percent would have given us a universe without stars." Leslie, page 4, quoting Hawking, Physics Bulleting: Cambridge, vol. 32, 1980, pp 9-10.

    The charges of the electron and proton have been measured in the laboratory and have been found to be precisely equal and opposite. Were it not for this fact the resulting imbalance would force every object in the universe--our bodies, trees, planets, rocks, stars, to explode violently. The Universe would consist solely of a uniform and tenuous mixture not so very different from air. There would be nothing else. Greenstein's "The Symbiotic Universe."

    The very nature of water--so vital to life--is something of a mystery. Unique among the molecules water is lighter in its solid form than its liquid form: Ice floats. If it did not, the oceans would freeze from the bottom up and Earth would be covered with solid ice. This property is traceable to unique properties of the hydrogen atom. Leslie, p 30, quoting Barrow and Tipler pp 143-144. CF Debtys Wilkinson, Our Universes (New York: Columbia University Press, 1991), pp 171-172.

    The synthesis of carbon--the vital core of all organic molecules--on a significant scale involves what scientists view as an astonishing coincidence in the ratio of the strong force to electromagnetism. This ratio makes it possible for carbon-12 to reach an excited state of exactly 7.65 MeV at the temperature typical of the center of stars, which creates a resonance involving helium-4. beryllium-8 and carbon-12--allowing the necessary binding to take place during a tiny window of opportunity 10-17 seconds long." Wilkinson, pp 181-183. See also John Gribbon and Martin Rees, Cosmic Coincidences (New York: Bantam, 1989 pp. 243-247.

    A remarkable feature of the Universe is its emptiness. Stars are extraordinarily distant from one another. However, were it not for these vast reaches of empty space, violent collisions between stars would be so frequent as to render the Universe uninhabitable. The yet more frequent near misses would detach planets from their orbits around their suns, flinging them off into interstellar space where they would quickly cool to hundreds of degrees below zero. Greenstein's, "The Symbiotic Universe.

    The Gaia Hypothesis states that all the life forms on Planet Earth work together to keep the planet life-bearing. There is much evidence for this. The heat output of the Sun has changed much down through the ages, and yet the temperature of our planet has maintained the narrow range necessary to maintain Life.
    The level of atmospheric gasses has also remained, for the most part, a steady constant despite changing conditions. This is extremely important. If there were not enough oxygen in the atmosphere, fauna would die. If there were too much oxygen and not enough carbon dioxide and methane, plants would die and the atmosphere would be so flammable, fires would overrun the Earth.
    Too much of both oxygen and carbon dioxide would also be fatal. But a third gas, methane, (produced by termites and digestion) is just abundant enough to keep the oxygen and carbon dioxide levels in check.
    Some kind of biological feedback system must be working to keep all this balanced. As of yet, there is no evidence Gaia is sentient, but She is biological. I strongly suspect that any sufficiently advanced Gaia would evolve into Sentience.
    More about the Gaia Hypothesis at
    I believe in what I call the Hyper-Gaia Hypothesis, that all or some of the Gaias in the Universe or Multiverse work together, to keep the Universe or Multiverse Life Bearing just as life on Earth works to keep Earth life bearing. This is a simple, logical, rational explanation for the Strong and Modified Weak Anthropic Principle, and for the testimony of billions of people, (the author included) who have felt a loving "PRESENCE" when engaged in loving, submissive and welcoming prayer towards Christ, or Whatever the individual chooses to call Him/Her/It.
    An article in the December 2001, Reader's Digest on page 141 on brain scan images of people experiencing the Divine indicates that feeling this PRESENCE is neither epilepsy nor Schizophrenia. We are hardwired to interact with what we call God, and you can be sure that, as with everything we are hard wired to experience, it has survival value.
    Phase I Of Evolution and Beyond
    The biggest leap forward in evolution occurred when different life forms learned to cooperate with one another. We went from being single celled organisms to multicellular organisms and from that major change grew all the variety we see around us. Love and cooperation, not competition, is what drives much of evolution, and among other things, "Christ is Love." (First Epistle of John 4:8).
    I propose that the term, "supernatural" does not mean "antinatural." God is as natural a Being as any other life form. I propose as Teilhard De Chardin did, that if the evolutionary process really is so strong that Humans and Whales can evolve from pond scum in just five billion or so years, God is perfectly capable of evolving in ten billion or so years. The pond scum did not even know where it was going and it had no will. We at least have a vague idea of where we are going, and we have the desire. Heaven also is buildable because Humanity is so tenacious we get what we want eventually. We saw birds fly we learned to build machines that let us fly. We saw the Moon, we went there. We want to live forever, we evolve into God and build Heaven, just as we built Manhattan, the Kennedy Space Center and Disney World. To understand the Universe, all of space and time, one must see it as a whole. The next five billion years are every bit as real as the five billion years that have just come. The Universe (and us) are works in progress and nowhere near finished yet. We are looking at a half unfinished construction site and seeing a mess. Do not judge any construction site by what it looks like while still half finished. Judge it only by its finished state. God is the natural result of a perfectly natural process we can understand. Every link in the long evolutionary chain is the natural result of the link right before it, one stair step after another, one long and difficult but far from impossible climb. The journey is difficult and often painful but I believe the results are well worth it!
    The pressure to survive will make this evolution necessary. The Universe we live in will not last forever. And when it dies you can be sure Life will not peacefully roll over and play dead. That is not the nature of life. So Life will "grow into the Head which is Christ" (Ephesians 4:15), in order to survive the end of this Universe, (if we haven't already done it sooner). Life will either have to find or make another universe, "a new Heavens and a new Earth," or repair this one. Either way we can't do it at our present level of development. Life will have to "grow into the Head which is Christ" just to survive. If we don't make it, it is a big Universe, somewhere Somebody will. Trying to stop evolution all over the Universe from reaching its Ultimate Life Form is like trying to stop a tidal wave or a volcano. Natural Forces of Nature you cannot stop. Maybe you can slow them down for a while but you can NOT stop them!
    Why not Buddha instead of Christ? Read their words. It is obvious to anyone who does so, Buddha doesn't want the job, Jesus Christ does.
    In a way the Kingdom of Heaven is a cosmic democracy. Whatever the Man from Galilee was originally in some alternate time line, long extinct, Human kind, or Hyper-Gaia has chosen to make Him evolving Humanity's Head, and He has been given all the skills and powers necessary to hold down the job. If Humanity does not listen to Christ's message, that we FORGIVE ONE ANOTHER, it is only a matter of time before someone with nukes chooses to "get revenge." If the chain reaction of revenge is not broken by forgiveness, our species is doomed. But even if we don't make it, its a big Universe out there, God has plenty of breeding places. Will the Hyper-Gaia come out of us, other species, computers or all of these? We choose by our actions and decisions.

    The laws of Biology teach us that survival of the fittest favors a nurturing God. Sea turtles lay many eggs and then abandon them. Alligators lay many eggs and guard them carefully. Sea turtles are very endangered. Alligators are prospering. Survival of the fittest favors both a God who multiplies enormously and a God who nurtures His offspring. We can be sure God did not "wind up the Universe" and abandon it, as some Deists claim. The nurturing of offspring is a survival technique that works. He sticks around to guard His "nest." That is why prayer has been proved to affect organic tissue in double blind experiments.
    Survival of the fittest also favors One who doesn't do too much for His children. Interfere too much and evolution ceases to be efficient, and we would have no motivation to grow up into the Head. Death must occur so there is room for evolution. Suffering must also occur so we may learn compassion for our fellow "cells of God,". It is more important that we learn love and compassion than any other lesson we could possibly learn. Without love and compassion we cannot evolve into He Who Is Love. It is also important that we are motivated to continue to learn medicine and other sciences. We are His past. He is our future.
    More proof of God: Ecological niches. An ecological niche is the part of an ecological system that a particular life form occupies. There are predator niches, prey niches, plant niches, etc. Ecological niches tend not to stay empty. For example on the Galapagos Islands, the ecological niche of "woodpecker" was empty. So a little bird called the "Darwin's Finch" moved in and took that niche. They are one of natures few tool using birds. Lacking the ability to peck like woodpeckers, they actually fashion twigs into poking tools to pry insects out of the bark of trees. If necessary, even tools become part of evolution. We can be sure if the ecological niche of "God" really was empty for some reason, some Life Form would move in to fill the empty niche. As a friend of mine admitted, "There is probably a waiting line."
    Once Christ evolves to a certain point, He will expand to fill all of time and space plus every part of all the other dimensions Quantum Physics has discovered. It is the normal nature of Life to overflow whatever container it happens to be in. Once life escapes from the time space bubble, it is no trick to reenter it again at any point. This is how a Being whose Body is made up of us (1 Corinthians 12:27), can make the Universe that evolved Him. The Universe is a warm starry nest in which God raises Himself. The Earth is a kind of egg. The Lord creates the Universe evolves the Lord. Outside the time space bubble God the Father is changeless. Inside the time space bubble, God the Son evolves into God. As John 15 puts it, : ."Gospel of John, Chapter 15:1 "I Am the true vine, and my Father is the vinegrower, 2 He removes every branch in me that bears no fruit. Every branch that bears fruit He prunes to make it bear more fruit." Christ evolves until He escapes this Universe. As Ephesians 4:9 puts it. "When it says, 'He ascended,' what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower parts of the Earth? 10 He who descended is the same one who ascended far above all the Heavens so that he might fill all things."

  2. edyb123

    edyb123 Senior Member

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    this argument is probably the worst argument in favour of there being a god..

    the life that humans have.. is possible because we evolved into what we are..

    your assuming that humans apeared on the earth or something.. and it was a very low chance that they would be able to survive considering the very strict measuremnts of gravity etc needed to sustain this particular life form..

    when in fact.. we did not just appear here.. we evolved into creatures that COULD live under the conditions on earth..

    so it is not any wonderful thing that humans happen to be able to live on the earth...

    if the worlds atmosphere gravity etc etc were of different strengths then a different kind of life form would have evolved to suit its surroundings..
  3. rebelfight420

    rebelfight420 Banned

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    Just to let everyone know I am a atheist just found this on the web and thought it was worth posting
  4. mortes

    mortes Senior Member

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    lol This entire article is made moot by the last sentence in the first paragraph.

    "Either this Universe was created , or that there are multitudes of Universes."

    That statement right there proves the entire paper false. There are multitudes of universes according to popular science today. Therefore this dumbass can't use science to prove something that isn't true within itself. The system fails and god doesn't exist.
  5. misterrain

    misterrain Banned

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    I honestly don't know why anyone would care if science says there's a God or not. I mean, science and religion are two very different things.

    The ultimate goal of science is the demystification of the universe and the bending of all things to the human will (basically, deflating and explaining the mysteries of the world while increasing our own ability to be comfortable in our environment). The ultimate goal of religion is to promote a harmony between humans and the cosmic unknown (basically, preserving the mysteries of the world, and seeking comfort in one's own humility and faith).

    I really don't think that you can find God with a microscope!

    SILVERWOLF_87 Member

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    Nearly that entire argument was blatantly ripped off from Patrick Glynn's book "God: The Evidence".

    Oh, and for those of you who are interested, all of those arguments are total and absolute crap.

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