Say you want a revolution?

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best picture ever.

 

After the February raid by the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (BATF) of David Koresh's dissident religious community at Waco, Texas, the FBI and the U.S. Army took over, mounting a 51-day siege. This included such psy-war tactics as sleep deprivation of the inhabitants of the community by means of all-night broadcasts of recordings of the screams of rabbits being slaughtered. Finally, despite David Koresh's pledge to surrender upon completion of his written explanation of the meaning of the Seven Seals, the FBI and the Army attacked. At dawn on April 19, 1993, and throughout the morning, tanks rammed holes in the main building and pumped (in the FBI's words) "massive amounts" of CS gas into the building, despite knowing that inside were more than a dozen children. The tanks demolished parts of the compound and created tunnels for the wind to blow through. The buildings at this point were saturated with inflammable CS gas and spilled kerosene.

 

Did Koresh ever say, in the last few days, that he had NO INTENTION of dying in there?

Had Koresh promised to come out after writing? Was he writing?

Did the FBi approve of, and assist this effort? Did they give some indication that he would have the time to write? Did they change their minds?

Did Reno ask the FBi if there was any progress she should know about before giving approval for the 4/19 raid? How did the FBi answer?

Did the FBi lie to Reno? Was it a whopper? Was Koresh beating babies? Was this lie central to Reno's approval of the "final solution"?

What did Richard Rogers order his men to do at Ruby Ridge? Did they blow the face off a women holding her baby? Did they ask over a loudspeaker the next day: What is Vicky having for breakfast?

Did they shoot a kid in the back? Did they attempt to lie about it to the court? Did they get away with it?

Did the FBi shoot at dogs at Ruby Ridge? Why? Did a Wall Street Journal article ponder whether the FBi shot at dogs in order to set off a set of events that would culminate in Weavers's death?

Did the FBi shoot penned dogs at Waco?

Has the FBi ever burned down a building with people inside by using tear gas cannisters shot or thrown in? If they have done it once, could they do it again? If they do it again, would they be responsible for a similar result?

How many FBi agents and civilians sat and listened to the Davidians conversations during the times you claim the Davidians were talking about their responses to an attack?

How many witnesses attest to the clarity of the words overheard?

Why would proof of such clarity be a very painful and dangerous thing for the FBi to admit? Why would proof of such clarity reveal and confirm FBi malice toward the Davidians, and complicity in their deaths?

Is the FBi responsible for their actions?

Does the "discretionary exemption" give government agents "carte blanche" or are there conditions which would exclude some acts under some circumstances?

Can the FBi have this cake and eat it too? Using the tapes to prove the Davidians started fires, but NOT having to face the implications that they initiated and sustained an attack that would and did trigger a response that would be lethal/suicidal... and if they had sure knowledge that their attack WAS provoking a suicidal response... shouldn't they have halted the attack OR be responsible for the results? If this decision to ignore the audio evidence was deliberate and premeditated, wouldn't willful inaction be akin to murder?

Did the FBi call an area Hospital to inquire about burn ward bed space approx. 7 hours before the fatal fire? If they had this concern over a fire, how could they initiate the attack and not be culpable for the consequences - especially in the light of the recordings which you claim impune the Davidians?

Which FBi agent gave Davidians a requirement that their egress would have to be prearranged and approved by the FBi?
And how did the telephone line (presumably necessary for MAKING any such arrangements) get cut?

Which FBi agent opined that it was ludicrous to expect women and kids to leave the relative safety of the buildings while those buildings were under a destructive assualt such as was demonstrated by tanks with orders to knock down walls?

What do CS instruction manuals warn NOT to do with CS gas? What did the FBi do with it?

How did the women and kids die in the concrete room? What were the orders given to the tank driver regarding the walls of that room?

If Saddam is a naughty man because he gassed Kurds and Iranians, why is an FBi agent who gasses Davidians not also a bad man?

What caused lethal blunt force trauma which killed women and kids behind concrete walls?

Which lawyer heard a Federale predict that Koresh would be killed?

How many government employees predicted that the Davidians would either be killed or would die?

How many government employees predicted WHO would be responsible? Who did they finger?

How many government employees asserted in the aftermath, that they heard other government employees admitting to participation in lethal action against the Davidians?

Under what circumstances can the government deprive people of life, limb or property? Were these circumstances met on 4/19/1993?

Was there an official government raid plan that
called for using machinegun fire against the Davidians? And if such a plan existed, why would a critic consider it absurd that someone might view the IR flashes on the FLIR video as suspicious?

Is there evidence that the tank destruction of the complex after the fire was premeditated?

Is there evidence that the tanks strove to push debris or bodies back into the fires?

Why was it important that one of the front doors of the structure are missing?

Why was it important that Jimmy Riddles skull parts are missing?

Why is it important that the videos of the initial raid are missing?

Why were the post-raid interviews with the BATF halted? Who halted them?

Who were the government employees punished for actions or inactions relating to the Waco events?

If you did to the FBi what they did to the Davidians, what do you THEY would have done? Especially given the armaments that we tax payers lavish upon them.

Alternatively, how would the FBi feel, if they were entrapped or ensnared by the same type of trap or labyrinth that they imposed on the Davidians? (Do not try to exit without making special arrangements... then you sever the only means of communicating to make those arrangements...)

Who is Steven Barry?

Who is Gene Cullen?

Who is Vic Feazell?

Who is Joyce Sparks?

Which of the above persons predicted the government would kill the Davidians before it happened?

Which of the above persons said, after the fact, that they heard other government employees boast of killing the Davidians?

Which of these persons was threatened by the FBi? Which was under the custody of Iowa Senator Charles Grassley?

If the four government employees lied, what was their motive? If they lied, could John Danforth have found it out? Could he have interviewed them under oath? Could he have charged them with perjury if they lied?

If citizens suspected that they might be telling the truth, would those citizens be guilty of anything? Would concerned citizens be doing
anything bad by paying attention? Would they be doing evil if they didn't pay attention?

If those four government employees TOLD THE TRUTH, how would it change your assertions about the integrity, fate, or responsibility of the Davidians?

If they lied, and if those lies were scripted and organized to mislead the public in certain specific ways, how would it change your view of government?

For extra points: write an essay response on your reactions to this statement:

"The conduct of our nations affairs always demands that public
servants discharge their duties under the Constitution and laws
of this Republic with fairness and a proper spirit of subservience
to the people whom they are sworn to serve. Public servants cannot
be arbitrarily selective in their treatment of citizens, dispensing
equity to those who please them and withholding it from those who
do not. Respect for the law can only be fostered if citizens believe
that those responsible for implementing and enforcing the law are
themselves acting in conformity with the law."

 

"For almost every positive concession the negotiators were
able to obtain from the Davidians, the tactical team was
ordered to counter with a negative response."

-- Mr. Van Zandt, FBi psychologist and profiler.
The Dallas Morning News 10/03/99 By Lee Hancock and
Bruce Nichols

*

"The feds are preparing to kill them. That way they can bury
their mistakes."

--McLennon County District Attorney Vic Feazell
Houston Chronicle, March 2nd, 1993 (48 days prior
to the April 19th conflagration.)

*

"They (The FBI) intend to kill them all."

--Texas department of Social Services social worker Joyce Sparks
speaking to her husband at 9:30 A.M. 19 April, 1993. (Two hours
thirty-one minutes before the April 19, 1993 fire.)
In Carol Moores The Davidian Massacre. pg. 325


*

"The negotiators told them no one would be coming out if they
cleared the cars."

--Mr. Noesner, FBI psychological staff at Waco in 1993.

*


"Noesner thinks he is stating the opinion of all of the negotiators
when he says that the decision on March 12 to cut off the power and
the decision on March 21 to remove vehicles after seven people had
come out were not just matters of poor timing, but were absolutely
critical decisions that changed the outcome."

--Justice Department Report
(Notice the phrase: "...ALL THE NEGOTIATORS", emphasis mine.
If this does not confirm Wrights thesis, nothing can or will.)

*

"I want to get out of here, because all of these people in that
compound are going to die, and I don't want to be here when it
happens."

--Mr. Lanceley, FBI psychological staff at Waco in 1993.
From Dallas Morning News 12/30/99 by Lee Hancock


*

An FBI behavioral profiler said in a separate Justice
Department interview that he warned early on "that they
should not send in the tanks, because if they did so,
children would die".


--- Lee Hancock, Dallas Morning News 12/30/99

Ex-FBI official's legacy tied to siege

Colleagues defend leader of hostage rescue team at Waco,
Ruby Ridge

10/03/99

By Lee Hancock and Bruce Nichols / The Dallas Morning
News

excerpts:

"He (Lanceley) and others said their warnings against pressuring
the apocalyptic sect were ignored, and the escalating tactics
crippled negotiations."

"We lost any chance of trust," Mr. Van Zandt said.

Mr. Rogers refused to let negotiators speak with his HRT
members, Mr. Van Zandt told Congress. Negotiators complained
of open HRT taunts, such as tying a bra to a negotiator's
car bumper and the appearance of bathroom graffiti that
read, "Negotiators are Davidians."

Mr. Van Zandt testified. "For almost every positive concession
the negotiators were able to obtain from the Davidians, the
tactical team was ordered to counter with a negative response."

Again, compare to Stuart Wright:

...The violations do not appear to be random, incidental or the
result of disorganization, as officials claim. The data indicate that
the FBI's on-scene commanders and tactical components of the
Hostage_Rescue Team (HRT) contributed largely to the failed
negotiations through methods of increased tactical pressure and
psychological warfare providing the justification for the high-risk
assault. The thesis is advanced that the HRT command may have pursued
furtively what some insiders call a "western" view of
hastage-barricade incidents - i.e., that negotiations should be used
as a means of manipulating people into positions where a tactical
solution can be executed. In this context, the standoff is analyzed as
a government massacre. Possible motives for this state of violence are
linked to the sect's defiant posture, aspects of police culture,
effective demonization of the sect, and the disturbing trend of
"militarization" within law enforcement.

--Dr. Stuart Wright Anatomy of a Government Massacre: Abuses of
Hostage-Barricade Protocols During the Waco Standoff

As published in the Journal of Terrorism and Political Violence.
ISSN 0954-6553 A Frank Cass Journal
Frank Cass, c/o ISBS 5804 NE Hassalo Street Portland, Oregon 97213
Tel. 1 800 944 6190

Dr. Stuart A. Wright
Lamar University
Dept. of Sociology
P.O. Box 10026

 

If you wish to read further, you'll find that though MeCl is not officially listed as *Flammable*, it IS listed as COMBUSTIBLE, with the note "low flash point=HIGH DANGER".

IOW, when it does go off, it does so explosively.

As to CS, the lies by Donforth are just astonishing. The retired pres. of Dow, Eric Larson & innumerable other chemical experts have testified to its toxicity.

The amount shot into the building, including at point-blank range into the old vault (the *bunker*) where so many of the mothers & kids were, is unbelievable. 450 rounds WERE to be inserted over a 2 day period. They fired them all in within 6 hrs.

As for its potential, at those levels of contributing to an explosive fireball once the building caught fire--how do you think grain elevators explode? Is dust, per se "explosive"? Not under NORMAL conditions, but in a heavily saturated atmosphere, damn right it will explode if sparked.

Between the saturation level of CS dust, the vapor of MeCl, the fact that the building's electricity had been cut off for some time & the Davidians were using Coleman fuel & kerosene lanterns, the tanks slamming the entire wooden building around, even knocking it off its foundation, the tanks knocking over & spilling the fuel supply tanks of the home all over the place--how could the place possibly NOT burn down? In fact, that appears to have been the objective, as Steve Schneider realized--"to burn this place down, kill all the people, destroy all evidences"

Fire contributor or not, the TOXICITY of CS is WELL established. As is the fact that the FLIR tapes record the machine-gunning of Davidians that tried to escape from the back, kitchen area.

David Hardy's website, with his many FOIA articles linked for viewing, is probably the most concise place to view the refutation of Donforth's lies. Hardy is a lawyer & a former gov't employee--he knows the lingo & the mindset & kept slapping the beast with FOIA suits 'till he got the info.

 

Unfortunately Arwen, your story is all too common. And very similar to what Breault & Baranyai did to David, by filing false charges against him. Children's Protective Services investigated the charges and found no basis, but it opened the door for the gov't to attack Mt. Carmel and murder the very children they were supposedly trying to save from non-existent abuse.

 

I thought every EVERY office, federal, state, and local had to have an account of EVERY action they have done in situations. They have to do a walk through of the situation's events and have an account of where they were when everything happend. They match bullets, footprints, and ect to every officer and everyone else that is on the scene. This is supposed to happen anytime someone is killed or injured, whether the person was an officer or civilian. But I guess, in this case, as well as others, we, civilians, are the only ones accountable for our actions. The government isn't...we know that for sure.

Afterall, the government ignores things right in front of their faces because it was supposed to be someone else's job to catch it...and wonder why towers fall and people are killed. It all has to do with egos...no one wants to be wrong and when someone is wrong, there is a cover up. Hell, civilians go to prison forever for the same shit the government pulls. People get murdered and the blame always gets shifted away from who is truely responsible.

 

Thanks for taking the time to view, most appreciated.

To be honest, I use to post regularly on the old Waco93 board under the same handle. Then one day the discussion board was discontinued & eventually as far as I can surmise Waco93 shut down for awhile. A few days ago out of curiosity I decided to punch in the sites URL. Lo & Behold back on line but with a different format which I'm now trying to get use to.

Back then this board use to have quite a bit of activity vertually every day of the week. Some of the old posters even got others to admit that they were Feds playing a game with the rest of us!!!
Yes those were the days!!! Gone but not forgotten.

WACO has always been a sore spot of mine ever since I chose to take the time to research the issue. I'd venture to say that happened when I first bought a copy of the first showing of "WACO- RULES OF ENGAGEMENT" years ago and my curiosity was aroused.

I said it long ago and I'll say it again-- The Davidians, were 'MURDERED' (for whatever reasons) by government depts. that were allowed to turn into rogue agencies.

Did any of you think that it couldn't happen again?? Then think again & look at who the players were!! Do any of you happen to remember an incident that happened in the Cuban section of Florida a few years ago involving a little 6 Yr. boy that was taken away in the early morning hours of 'Easter' at gun point!!?? Do any of you happen to remember that little boy's name?

Do any of you think for a moment that something can't/won't happen to you or your family? Then think again!!! 911 was the door. The "HOMELAND SECURITY ACT & PATRIOT ACT" became the keys to open that door even further!!

Think not!!?? All it now takes is for someone to make an anonymous phone call to whatever agency and guess who comes a callin/banging down your door!!!! It ain't gonna be your mother or inlaws!!!

Hope that some of you will take the time to view the "Autopsy Photos" that I presented earlier.

 

i read about half of that spliff, thx for posting it... and giving the heads up... patriot acts are no joke, they will use them on anyone... even children...

 

Thank you Mui.
Waco Holocaust Electronic Museum

http://www.Public-Action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum
or http://206.55.8.10/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum


Mt. Carmel 31 A
Autopsy photograph of the alleged remains of Aisha Summers

 

Waco Holocaust Electronic Museum

http://www.Public-Action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum
or http://206.55.8.10/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum

Mt. Carmel Doe 33
Autopsy photograph of the alleged remains of Dayland Lord Little

 

After having worked as a contractor for the FAA on the STARS program for years, having witnessed the FAA's lies to Congress, and having watched Congressional 'oversight committees' provide nothing of the sort; I am more firmly convinced than before that the FBI/federal government deliberately covered up their wrongdoings in the Waco incident.

Before I began to work with the government, I usually believed a government agency; I was not a conspiracy theorist. I have changed my opinion.

 

Former Waco District Attorney Bill Johnston is now representing Clive Doyle (trustee) and the Branch Davidian Seventh Day Adventists, free of charge, in the court case brought against them by Amo Bishop Roden. It looks like everyone with any grey matter between their ears has, upon twelve years of reflection, seen the painfully obvious truth.

 

Sworn Affidavit for obtaining search warrant of Mt. Carmel

Pg. 8, Paragraph 3, Line 1:

"Mrs. Sparks also said that on April 6, 1992, she visited the compound again."

Pg. 9, Paragraph 1, Lne 2:

"She said that during her conversation with Koresh, he told her that he was the "Messenger" from God, that the world was coming to an end, and that when he "reveals" himself the riots in Los Angeles would pale in comparison to what was going to happen in Waco, Texas."

The LA Riots did not occur until April 29, 1992.

Let that really sink in a minute.

Joyce Sparks' testimony in a sworn, dated affidavit cannot be true because the events she referenced had not occurred yet at the time that she claims the conversation took place. Her testimony could only have been written AFTER the LA Riots - over three weeks later than when she claims to have had a conersation with Koresh about it. If her testimony is false, or has been altered in that way, one can only wonder what else has been altered.

The question remains...

Did they edit the original affidavit after the raid to portray David in the worst possible light, or is the affidavit we have seen a blatantly false document created later as a red herring to give to Hardy and others seeking to unravel the mysteries of Waco with FOIA requests?

Either is a punishable offense. Why have multiple teams of lawyers and multiple court proceedings failed to recognize this blatant manipulation of truth?

 

http://www.serendipity.li/waco.html