Ron Paul Blasts Secret Gov't

Discussion in 'Conspiracy' started by Dayzed Dreamer, Feb 17, 2009.

  1. Mellow Yellow

    Mellow Yellow Electrical Banana

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    Yet the US could afford eight years of corruption and no-bid contracts to support a senseless war based on lies, tax cuts for the rich, and the lack of oversight on Wall Street that drove our economy into the ground, resulting in the worst economic downturn coupled with the highest national debt in US history.

    And the republicans call the investment in renewable energy, our infrastructure and social programs "socialization" because it doesn't benefit the rich, go figure.

    Somehow I fail to follow your logic.
     
  2. Mellow Yellow

    Mellow Yellow Electrical Banana

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    Don't get me wrong, I agree the wall street bailout the bush administration initiated is a HUGE waste of money. We'd all be better off if government would keep their hands off and let the big corporations crumble into little pieces, some of which would succeed, some of which would fail based on performance, not handouts.

    This idea of the "tax-and-spend-dems" reminded me of Bobby Jindal's rebuttal of Obama's speech last night, yet we've seen the result of the GOP's destructive economic policies with the economic downturn and S&L scandal back in the reagan administration in the '80's, now the bush administration, yet they expect us to forget all that, and trust them. Like the saying goes, those who don't learn from their mistakes are doomed to repeat them.

    Somehow it always amounts to a heist of the US infrastructure, a transfer of our tax payer funded resources to feed the greed of private interest. It sucks that the obama administration has so little to work with, but maybe they'll make some progress if the GOP can stay out of the way and stop trying to sabotage everything.

    I just wish the dems would stop pussy footing around, take the gloves off, and kick some ass, they're not doing themselves any favors by playing nice (after all, the GOP never does).
     
  3. Fyrenza

    Fyrenza Queen of the Ians

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    It's the logic of math,

    where, if you have a pie, and you start slicing it up for X amount of people, and then, all of sudden, there are 2X number of people to divide it amongst, the logical outcome is that your original X amount of people are now trying to live on 1/2 of the pie they were originally provided.

    On the Infrastructure issue ~ you're aware of the fact that America is SELLING our "infrastructure" to the highest bidders, regardless of country of citizenship? (Meaning, it's being sold to other countries and/or people/biz'es who will take whatever profits are to be had BACK to their countries.)

    The horror of it is that the Dems are willing to spend taxpayer monies to spruce up everything, in order to get a higher price.

    Yeah, well,

    mark me down as against that. :rolleyes:
     
  4. gardener

    gardener Realistic Humanist

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    The SPP is not a conspiracy, it is something Bush/Cheney foisted on the world, and since it's inception the world ecomomy is in the dumpster. Misdirection is something you are great at. And now the discusision has sunk to new lows. That was probably your aim.
     
  5. gardener

    gardener Realistic Humanist

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    I hope you do look into my references. Hiptastic does only one thing... try to misdirect information. Hiptastic says this is a conspiracy...I try to show that our legislature does not take it as a mere conspiracy, but as an implication that someone or some thing or power is try to usurp their power.

    In this time of economic turmoil, just what powers are leading our legislative bodies? Why don't we know what derivatives or triple A ratings are based on?
     
  6. gardener

    gardener Realistic Humanist

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    It's not about taxes it's about who was responsible for the melt down, and will we allow them to direct the recovery.

    You have the same people receiving bailout/TARP funds sitting on the boards of the SPP committees telling us what is going to work. Does that win your confidence?
     
  7. Mellow Yellow

    Mellow Yellow Electrical Banana

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    ...or so the party line goes, but the reality is that with Republicans at the helm, we inevitably end up with 1/N of the richest people (where N is a small number) sharing the majority of the pie, instead of investing it back into the middle class people who made the pie in the first place. For me this has become a pavlovian response, but I hope I'm wrong, I hope that if and when the republicans come back into power, they don't ransack the country like they have in the past...

    Agreed, but I don't buy that it's a partisan issue, the republicans are as responsible for selling off our infrastructure as the dems. That's why folks like Ron Paul and Kucinich will never be viable candidates for the presidency, they don't comply with that agenda.
     
  8. odon

    odon Slightly Popular

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    I will (and have.)
    I'm not going to get into a bitch fight with you and Hiptastic, but I would say you do sometimes avoid the issues raised or go off on a tangent and perhaps he is slightly condescending (But, I do know how he feels sometimes.;))

    The same ones.

    We can find these things out.
    As far as I am aware the "new" products were based on how they looked after they were packaged together.
    Not how they are if you stripped them down.
    There was nothing fundementally different to how these products were rated but they were held together with more instability than the bog standard financial instruments these banks had used for decades.
    If you did strip them down you would not find anything new.

    You have to register but this site http://www.moodys.com/cust/default.asp has quite a lot of info on how it rates companies and nations.
    It seems to boil down to: Market position; Product risk and diversification; Asset quality; Capital adequacy; Profitability; Reserve adequacy.

    This one is good too:
    http://www2.standardandpoors.com/po...0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.html?lid=us_topnav_criteria

    Both are the market leaders.
     
  9. Mellow Yellow

    Mellow Yellow Electrical Banana

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    Oh yeah, and my favorite part of Jindal's speech was when he went off on "volcanic spending", and pissed off the residents of the pacific northwest who live near Mount Saint Helens and other active volcanos. I know, while we're at it let's cut funding for the levies in New Orleans, but wait, that was already done by a republican administration. What an asshole!
     
  10. Fyrenza

    Fyrenza Queen of the Ians

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    None of it was ever meant for the middle class ~ the "pie" was supposed to be for the poor folks.

    Check this out:

    Percentiles Ranked by AGI
    AGI Threshold on Percentiles
    Percentage of Federal Personal Income Tax Paid

    Top 1% ~ >$388,806 ~ 39.89%

    Top 5% ~ $153,542 - $388,805 ~ 20.25%

    Top 10% ~ $108,904 - $153,541 ~ 10.65

    Top 25% ~ $64,702 - $108,904 ~ 15.48

    Top 50% ~ $31,987 - $64,701 ~ 10.74%

    Bottom 50% ~ <$31,987 ~ 2.99%

    Note: AGI is Adjusted Gross Income
    Source: Internal Revenue Service

    Now, this:

    [​IMG]

    If the top 5% of the wage earners are paying almost 60% of the total Individual Income Taxes receipts,

    i don't believe any of us at the lower end of the spectrum have anything to gripe about...

    And if you look at the Corporate Income Taxes, and how much they already contribute, it explains a lot about why American biz is moving "off-shore" and why some of our top wage earners are expatriating themselves.

    And what happens to us when they're gone?

    Yeah. Look up these words: serf; peon; sharecropper; and squatter.

    Depending on your skills, education level, experience, and willingness to actually WORK,

    you'll be known as one of the above.
     
  11. Fyrenza

    Fyrenza Queen of the Ians

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    Why in the world would that statement make anyone mad?

    Errr, and i believe that spending was cut for the New Orleans levees when some ACTUAL Rocket Scientist scratched his head, and figured out that building anything right next to a major body of water, that would end up being below sea level, wouldn't work. No matter HOW many levees were built. :rolleyes:
     
  12. gardener

    gardener Realistic Humanist

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    Certainly they pay a higher percentage of total tax receipts. They control a larger percentage of taxable income. You can't charge an income tax on income people don't make. I am sure the republicans would love to tax the lower level people for breathing, if they could get away with it.

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/tax/article1996735.ece

    Warren Buffett has had this to say:

     
  13. Fyrenza

    Fyrenza Queen of the Ians

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    What i find amazing about your post is that this Buffett dude evidently thinks his mouth can flap, and THAT's what's "real,"

    yet his actions say he doesn't give a rat's banana.

    He paid, what, $9.25 MILLION, just for taxes, but only pays his secretary $60K / year, KNOWING that s/he will only TAKE HOME about $40K??? And he's concerned with "the disparity of wealth?!?"

    So. He wants everyone taxed at what whatever rate, and his Big Idea of throwing the rest of us a bone is to make it more "fair,"

    NOT to begin paying his workers a substantial percentage of the income they help him to earn.

    Gottcha! :rolleyes:
     
  14. Fyrenza

    Fyrenza Queen of the Ians

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    There's also this:

    Tax Year: 2008

    Filing Status: Single, Married filing jointly, Married filing separately, Head of household

    If your taxable income is between... your tax bracket is:

    0 and $8,025 . . . . . . . 10%
    $8,025 and $32,550 . . . 15%
    $32,500 and $78,850. . . . 25%
    $78,850and $164,550 . . 28%
    $164,550 and $357,700 . . 33%
    over $357,700 . . . . . . 35 %

    so if he's only paying 17.7%, he's finalgaling the figures, and taking every loophope deduction he can, putting paid to his statements of concern for others, imho.
     
  15. Mellow Yellow

    Mellow Yellow Electrical Banana

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    I had a different pie chart in mind, one entitled "return on investment for government spending," I saw it on Mother Jones a few months back, they got it from Moody's.

    Unfortunately the figure's no longer there, but I remember balking at the idea that spending $1 of tax revenue provides a return of something like $1.67 back into the economy when it's spent on food stamps, because that money doesn't just feed the poor, it provides employment from the food that's bought, etc.

    By contrast that dollar only provides a return of something like $0.35 when it's spent on corporate tax cuts, yet the Republicans still seem to insist corporate tax cuts are the answer, why is that? Is it genetic?

    Maybe we should bring on a flat tax, that way the rich would have to pay their fair share, forget loopholes from fancy tax accountants. Then we should pull our troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan, and send them to the Cayman Islands instead, take the banks by force, and reclaim all that loot that our honchos are laundered there, that would go a long way toward shoring up our economy.

    I dunno about Warren Buffet, but 60K seems like a pretty damned good salary for a secretary!
     

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