Revolution !!!

Discussion in 'Protest' started by Barefootsun, Feb 22, 2006.

  1. Barefootsun

    Barefootsun Member

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    It is time for a revolution , but how to start? , first we need to know how many people suport this action, we will need a lot of people to get any where, and then what? give me your thoughts, we will see what we can do.
     
  2. gary.newelluk

    gary.newelluk Member

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    If the USA is a democracy then you shouldn't need a revolution to oust your democratically elected government.

    In the UK if the government is so unpopular they usually call an election but if necessary the Queen has a right to step in and force an election.

    Basically if enough people in the US were upset at the current regime then they can use their vote to cause a revolution.
     
  3. _chris_

    _chris_ Marxist

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    pff...


    you cant acheiev communism through parliament (as much as the ssp like to think they can)





    anyhoo, i would support the revolution, yes, but you gots to get the correct political climate first...


    read state in the revolution by lenin...
     
  4. peaceloveandshrooms

    peaceloveandshrooms Member

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    You def. canNOT carry out a revolution in the US through democratic means. A democracy is not as free as it seems to be from the outside. The people don't have any power. We vote for people that are just trying to get elected. The people's wishes are not represented. A politician will say anything to get elected. And who are these politicians? They are the members of the elite, the higher class, the class that has historically been the oppressor. The middle class is not represented, women are not nearly represented enough, and minorities are practically ignored by our system. Then, you take the electoral college into account, what's the point of voting? No, revolution is the only way that change will come. Violent revolution? Passive? I tend to think like Gandhi, civil disobedience is my way. If you don't like a law, then don't follow it. Just to clarify, I'm not saying that you should steal just because you want to. But if you have reason why the government should not have authority over certain aspects of life that they try to dictate over, then just break the law. The government's power comes from fear. We are afraid of the consequences- money, time, reputation. Just say screw it. Take authority over your own life. If everyone just ruled themselves, there's your revolution, and my utopia.
     
  5. _chris_

    _chris_ Marxist

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    Ghandi got many people killed through his pacifism...


    i prefer to try a little utalitarianism myself...
     
  6. I don't have a lot of knowledge of utalitarianism, but in order to put such a philosophy into place, won't the revolution have to come first?

    Anyway....I'm not a fan of the traditional extremist revolution. There are other ways. In fact, the reason why a revolution is almost impossible in the west today is the existence of a hugely dominant middle class, and while they might not be happy, they're nice and comfortable and they're certainly not listening to us. I, and only I (for I believe that variety is the spice of life and the spice of change) am looking to "duck out the back" and seek ways of living that promote freedom, true happiness and test the systemic boundaries of political philosophies...maybe i'm being too optimistic but I think the more we demonstrate that alternative ways of living are effective, the less cynical and ignorant the masses will feel. That is all talk of course, for now. ;)
     
  7. _chris_

    _chris_ Marxist

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    im not following your first question....



    but the middle class (the peti bourgoirse) are never going to outnumber the workers, who are the base of society..
     
  8. You're only 15 yet you're living in the early 1900s, stop reading marx for a minute and look at whats happening around you. The workers ARE the middle class. Think about it, they've got all the luxuries of modern living they need to feel nice and content with their lives. The workers don't give a fuck about politics, they're not being opressed, they're being spoonfed and rocked to sleep like babies. And more importantly, they see communism, anarchism and most kinds of socialism as a joke because many of the, have been implicitly taught from birth that capitalism as it stands today is the ultimate and only effective way of life.

    As for the first question, isn't utalitarianism a method of running a society...and wouldn't we need to overthrow the current non-utalitarian government for this to work?...seriously i don't know exactly what utalitarianism is. Could you describe it and how we could use it to enact a revolution?
     
  9. citrus_seas

    citrus_seas Senior Member

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    I'm all for Revolution...as long as it's one that makes sense. Before I agree with you, what are your plans for after the revolution is succesful? IF the revolution is succesful, what are you going to put in place of the previous fallen empire? You can give everybody flowers and kaftkans and all that groovy stuff, hell, you can even blow up the White House for all I care. Just show me what you're planning to put in place of the previous system and then maybe i'll say yes completely to revolution
     
  10. citrus_seas

    citrus_seas Senior Member

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    To answer your first question:

    Utilitarianism (from the Latin utilis, useful) is a theory of ethics that prescribes the quantitative maximization of good consequences for a population. It is a single value system and a form of consequentialism and absolutism. This good is often happiness or pleasure, though some utilitarian theories might seek to maximize other consequences.
     
  11. confessor

    confessor Member

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    If you look closely at what the Bush administration is doing, you will see they are forming a climate for dictatorship. Exactly the same thing we supposedly went to war to stop.

    Violent revolution? Maybe, maybe not. The people still have some power, but we must use it now, before it is taken away. And we do need a plan, not only for the revolution, or uprising, or whatever, but also for what will be put in place.

    I'd rather keep democracy, I think this mess can be fixed, we just need to pull together with a solid plan. It will take people in the know to come up with this, I try to follow what I can but I don't have any real inside info, other than what I find on the web. Mainstream media is a crock, it's controlled solely by the government and you can't get the full story from it. We need people who really know what's going on and are willing to fight for the right changes. And do it for the right reasons. There is still hope, if we can get together and act in time.
     
  12. Barefootsun

    Barefootsun Member

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    democracy real democracy , when the U.S. first started every thang was almost good i think that we have fallen from what we were and that we need to gether and reclame are contry the goverment is corrupt (power corrupts) if we give all people power then we might have something , but people are differt mabe we need to devide the states in to differt contrys like west and east just for starts ,all im realy saying is im unhappy and im trying to do something about it ,but where to start ?
     
  13. hmmmm..I've never liked that way of thinking.

    As for chris' comments on Ghandi. We are living in a different time. People are far more akin to human rights issues before they were during the liberation of india. If governments try to quell any sort of revolutionary action through tyranny, they pay. Centralised governments have advanced in their thinking, they now trick people into thinking they're free. If the British hadn't treated the indians with such slavish disrespect and oppression, then Ghandi's revolution would have been far less effective.

    [font=&quot]"A really efficient totalitarian state would be one in which the all powerful executive of political bosses and their army of managers control a population of slaves who do not have to be coerced, because they love their servitude." Aldous Huxley 1950[/font]
     
  14. deadonceagain

    deadonceagain mankind is a plague

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    well the US is a republic not a demacracy which most people think it is, well its not, utopia is impossible its a lost cause, not to say that we shouldnt work toward a better scoeity just a perfect one wont happen we are only human, just not fallowing laws on a small scale wont work either, i belive in revolusion but so far no one has any idea worth even giving a though to, as it stand the US is not a bad place but is getting worse i belive in this country and i belive it can be a good place there just needs to be some change
     
  15. I want to make a point against popular revolutionist thinking that revolutionary movements in this day and age would be done better by different folks, with different ideas, in different ways...because a great strength of humanity is our creativity, ingenuity and cultural diversity, and globalisation is (or already has done) rapidly destroying these virtues.
     
  16. Barefootsun

    Barefootsun Member

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    different people ? why ? it is us that notice that there is something wrong and that there needs to be a change, if not a Revolution then reform the government, don't just sit idly by that is what I have been doing waiting for something to happen, it wont unless we do something about it but how do we reach out and say hay that's not ok
     
  17. gary.newelluk

    gary.newelluk Member

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    I think Lying in a fields point is that average joe is content enough to be brought up by the system he has grown up with whether it is right or wrong, controlled or not. Whether average joe is truly free is a matter of opinion that quite often appears on these forums.

    I see it a bit like the film The Matrix. You have your Neo who finds out that life isn't what he thought it was and you get the average person who is a battery pack for a computer living out what they think is their life.

    The question is given the choice would you rather know the truth or not know and live comfortably the way you are.

    Think about caged animals like pet rabbits. Wild rabbits roam free and eat what they want and do what they want and ultimately end up as road kill or fox food. Alternatively you get pet rabbit who lives in a small hutch and/or run with relative freedom within the confines of his cage. The rabbit gets fed daily and doesn't particularly have to worry about foxes and will never end up as roadkill.
     
  18. Barefootsun

    Barefootsun Member

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    i would rather know the truth,and be the rabbit that is fox food because that is what my life was ment for, if your not that rabbit then you are just going throw the motinos
    until you die,( eat sleep poop )lots of fun lets see how fat i can get
     
  19. are we not all different? I think this forum is an example that even lefties disagree at times, but this is for the best. Look at it in biological terms, diversity makes for a stronger chance of survival. Of course we should all be aiming for the same sort of ends...
     
  20. ChinaCatSunflower02

    ChinaCatSunflower02 Senior Member

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    i definitely call for a revolution. problem is, no matter what, not everybody will be happy. but that's what makes life what it is. life is so confusing and scary sometimes. sometimes i don't know what to believe. like i said, no matter what, not everyone will be happy, and if there was a utopia, life would be boring and there'd be another revolution, and then somebody won't be happy with that system and preach their own system. it's all a cycle. who are you supposed to believe? what are you supposed to believe? all of this gives me a headache. but i do know that our country IS turning into a police country and there needs to be SOME kind of revolution.
     

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