responsibility...it's a good thing

Discussion in 'Pets and Animals' started by graven, May 20, 2004.

  1. graven

    graven Member

    Unfortunately, a friend of mine doesn't seem to understand it. She has three dogs, and one of them she has decided will have puppies. She doesn't really have the money or the place to keep three dogs, her grandmother has paid for most of the dogs vet care, but I'm wondering who will be paying for the puppies? I told her to spay the female, but she refused. So I guess I'm posting here to vent my frustration and kinda make a note that if anyones looking for a puppy sometime in the next 6 months, they'll be some available. I know the father was a sharpei mix(looks more like a husky/german shepard), and the mother is a pit/lab mix.

    I think that after all this, I'm just going to get my dog spayed. I'm guessing that if I really want to raise a litter of puppies, I'll just rescue a pregnant dog and enjoy the endless hours of cleaning up puppy mess, and all the joys of housetraining, not to mention the bill for puppy vaccinations.
     
  2. Sage-Phoenix

    Sage-Phoenix Imagine

    Amen to that

    TTFN

    Sage
     
  3. PAPOOSES

    PAPOOSES Member

    Well, I let my doggy have a litter ... just one & I had many good owners [including vet techs] lined up in advance ... I just didn't feel right depriving her of the miracle of giving life =/ We were pregnant together & I was her midwife ;) It was the most beautiful thing I've ever witnessed [besides my own daughter's birth of course]! She was totally "in her element" being a mama & I have no regrets ... although she was spayed as soon as the puppies went to their new homes =)
     
  4. clawsy

    clawsy Member

    you should go to a shelter and watch them get killed because there are not enough homes, if the 'miracle of life' is so damn important.....
    ever think those ppl could have saved a shelter dog instead of taking one of your puppies?
    Go to a shelter and watch them die and then tell me its so touching and wonderful. You just did it for selfish reasons, not to help animals. Who pays for the shelter animals? Who are the people to do the dirty work and put them to sleep? to feed them to try and find them homes. WHy dont you ask them what they think of your touching miracle of life story.
     
  5. metro

    metro self-banned

    There are so many people who do not take responsibility for their pets, it frustrates me too. More people should adopt from shelters, if I were to get another pet, that's what I would do. I have two cats, one was from a farm that was giving kittens away and my other is a Himalayan Persian that I paid $200 for (he fell asleep in my lap, what could I do![​IMG]). My dad's dog had some puppies recently too. I love them.
    Alot of people I know have had tons of different exotic pets that they don't have anymore-they get rid of them as soon as it's no longer convenient or novel. Very sad. I think one should commit to your pets and try to keep them their entire lives.
     
  6. Sage-Phoenix

    Sage-Phoenix Imagine

    I totally agree with Clawsy and Metro

    Our bunny is a rescue rabbit. I felt gulity about buying a rabbit in a pet shop knowing poor bunnies were hanging around in shelters, who if anything were more deserving of a home because they've had such a hard time. Now I only ever consider adopting from rescue centres.

    There are plenty of puppies/kitten/baby whatever, pure breds and beautifully natured animals in shelters. So there's no excuse.

    TTFN

    Sage
     
  7. graven

    graven Member

    PAPOOSES ~

    It's great that you had homes lined up before you bred your dog...
    But what happens if the people who have one of your puppies can't keep it? Will you take it back? Even after 5-10 years? Would you take it back? Because, if not, more then likely it WILL end up in a shelter and be pts. And what about spaying and neutering the puppies, or requiring them to be altered by the new owners, so they don't produce more puppies? Thats just irresponsible. And that is the reality of it. I've rescued dogs and found them homes, and if at any point in the future those people can't care for the dog I gave to them, I will take them back, gladly. Go to petfinder.com and look at all the dogs and cats and birds and EVERYTHING that has been abandoned, dumped, neglected, or just 'traded in'. Thats what you contributed to. Please think about that.
     
  8. graven

    graven Member

  9. Sage-Phoenix

    Sage-Phoenix Imagine

    OMG that story is so moving. I was literally in tears by the end.

    TTFN
    Sage
     
  10. My cat Luna had a litter of kittens. She ran between my husband legs one night, and got out the door. I was on a waiting list to get my cat spayed for low income families. Anyway, Luna ended up getting pregnant with our neighbors cat Sammie. She had gone into labor around six in the morning, and layed next to my head meowing for help. She taught me alot about giving birth, and it really was a wonderful experience. She was a major inspiration for me to go ahead and give natural birth. Luna seemed to enjoy her pregnancy, and it really made her into a different cat. She is more loving, and patient. After she was done nursing her kittens, she was spayed.

    I kept one of the kittens, Conan, and the rest found very good homes with my very good friends. I know that they are being well taken care of, and I wouldnt think twice about taking them back.

    Today Luna, and Conan have a loving relationship like no other. Luna and Conan constantly groom eachother, and purr. They sleep together, and Luna is very viligant, and protecting over Conan. They will call out to eachother, and come running. It is very sweet. I do not regret that Luna snuck out, and had kittens. She was able to experience that was her right as a living creature.

    Clawsy, whenever you or your relatives decide to have kids perhaps you should go to Uganda and sit in the refugee villages. Watching families die with swollen bellies, and babies with maggots in their tear ducts. Or whenever you eat meat or drink milk perhaps you should visit slaughterhouses, and dairy farms and experience immense amounts of suffering coming off these animals. And when you realize that you being alive, driving your car, being a mindless consumer in this dying world then you should consider taking your life.
    PAPOOSES experience is definately a miracle of life, and I think it is wonderful that she was able to experience that and share it. She also stated that she was responsible with the pups. If you want to look at things from your negative aspect, dont be a hypocrite. Look at your life, and the entire world that way.

    Now what are you going to do make this world better than mocking people for actually having good intention? Sitting here behind a computer screen isnt getting very far...;)
     
  11. clawsy

    clawsy Member

    edit double posting.....
     
  12. clawsy

    clawsy Member

    Great way to take the issue OFF TOPIC. We are talking about getting animals spayed. … why are you now talking about my parenting and diet? And you assume a lot about me that is wrong but I’m guessing you judge people by your own standards or something.

    "Clawsy, whenever you or your relatives decide to have kids perhaps you should go to Uganda and sit in the refugee villages. Watching families die with swollen bellies, and babies with maggots in their tear ducts. "

    Whats this got to do with spaying your pets? Nothing, but actually we decided a while back to not to have children, we would rather adopt or foster kids who need a home and love. If my relatives have kids, its not like they are breeding them then tossing them out unwanted, just so they can experience the miracle of child birth.

    "Or whenever you eat meat or drink milk perhaps you should visit slaughterhouses, and dairy farms and experience immense amounts of suffering coming off these animals."

    HAHA funny guess what? I’m vegan, lol I haven’t larfed so much in ages I haven’t eaten meat for about 16 yrs. You assume I’m not..you assume a lot about people. I actually do have a very good idea of slaughterhouses that’s why I am vegan and help in an AR group. The same reasons I think breeding pets is wrong is why I try to not consume animal products.

    " And when you realize that you being alive, driving your car, being a mindless consumer in this dying world then you should consider taking your life. "

    Yeah yeah heard this "argument" before , if you can’t avoid killing a bug or a field mouse then you should eat a steak, let your pets breed , because after all life is pain.. right? are you telling me i should go kill myself? gee thanks!

    "PAPOOSES experience is definately a miracle of life, and I think it is wonderful that she was able to experience that and share it. She also stated that she was responsible with the pups. If you want to look at things from your negative aspect, dont be a hypocrite. Look at your life, and the entire world that way. "

    Breeding pets isn’t responsible.. and its not a miracle. Why do you think animals are being killed in shelters?! why are the shelters killing so many animals?Whats the reason?

    "Now what are you going to do make this world better than mocking people for actually having good intention? Sitting here behind a computer screen isnt getting very far."

    And what do you do to help these animals? I volunteer in a no kill shelter, and it there is a about a 3 month waiting lsit , that animals have to wait before being able to come into the shelter..many get turned away and get put to sleep no doubt. Why is this? Why is it full to the brim with animals and many are turned away?!

    If you let your pets breed, i dont care if you found "loving homes" By getting people to take on YOUR animals, you are only adding to the problem. Making sure the animals in shelters have less chance of finding a home. And what happens to those animals who never get a home? Where is their miracle of life???!! they dont get one, they get death and not being wanted.

    call me judgemental i dont really care, when i see people calling it (breeding animals when there is already millions who will never get a home) a miracle and making out its so speacial and wonderful, like something that everyone should do, i get angry. its not a miracle, its BS and selfish.


    edit: I hope you actually do make sure you take YOUR animals back if the new owners cant keep them until they die . I dont know if you know but some vivisection labs get their animals from gov run shelters, (eg dog pounds). So just turfing them out to other people and forgetting about them could mean they end up in these horrible places, imo a fate a lot worse than being put to sleep.

    oh & regarding 'even my vet took some', well i feel sorry for your vet. My vet, the whole staff has had to take in animals that people dont want, guess what? they are not Gods that have unlimted resources to take in every animal ppl decide to breed and get rid of. why does my vet take them in, because its either that or have them put to sleep and they actually give a shit about the animals.but they cant take in every animal, and what happens when they have to say NO MORE?
     
  13. graven

    graven Member

    Cosmic Butterfly, PAPOOSES,

    http://www.spaldingcountyanimalshelter.com/dogs1.htm
    http://www.spaldingcountyanimalshelter.com/cats1.htm
    ^ These animals have about a week to live. Where is their happy ending?

    http://www.petfinder.org/pet.cgi?action=1&pet.Shelterid=OH235&preview=1
    ^ This shelter recieves over 4000 animals a year. Where is the miracle of life for them?

    http://www.petfinder.org/pet.cgi?action=1&pet.Shelterid=IN26&preview=1
    ^ Almost 100 unwanted pets! Why?

    http://www.petfinder.org/pet.cgi?action=1&pet.Shelterid=GA217&preview=1
    ^ 227 unwanted pets! How many do you actually think will be adopted? If you really need to experience the 'miracle of life', why don't you adopt an unwanted pregnant mother? And be responsible with the babies. SPAY or NEUTER. It's really simple.

    Do these pets not deserve to live? Is there some reason that you can see that you need to bring more animals into the world and take a chance away from a pet that is dumped at a shelter? How is that a miracle? And did you ensure that all the kittens or puppies were spayed or neutered before you found them homes? And would you take your 'miracles of life' back at any point in their lives if their new owners couldn't keep them? I never did get an answer there. You need to wake up and realize that you haven't helped anything by breeding your pets. If your cat wasn't spayed, why not? Did you get her from a breeder or did you get her from a shelter or rescue group. Use your own situation as an example. You got your cat and she wasn't spayed, and she got out and had kittens...but you found all of them great homes, right? If they aren't spayed or neutered, whats to say they won't get out and have a litter of kittens, which is the problem. You and your friends, and all of their friends may actually find great homes for all the kittens, but where does it end? It ends at a shelter, with animals getting put to sleep because of irresonsible owners who let their pets breed. Do you understand that?
     
  14. clawsy

    clawsy Member

    Also check this out. Please make sure you are responsible for the animal babies that you have brought into this world, for their whole life, unless you want to risk them being tortured in some laboratory.

    "Pound Seizure Defined: Pound seizure means that animals who arrive in a pound or shelter and who are not claimed by former or new guardians within five days, are required by law to be turned over on demand to laboratories for experimentation. "

    "Pound seizure is illegal in England, Denmark, Sweden, and Holland. In the United States there is no federal law regarding pound seizure, but 14 states forbid it: Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York, New Jersey, Delaware, Pennsylvania, Maryland, West Virginia, South Carolina, and Hawaii.(2) Most other states have no law on the matter and leave it up to county or town governments to decide, but five states require pound seizure of government-run facilities. These states are: Iowa, Minnesota, Oklahoma, South Dakota, and Utah. There have been several anti-pound seizure bills before Congress, but none has been enacted.
    " http://www.peta.org/factsheet/files/FactsheetDisplay.asp?ID=33
     
  15. Just for your reassurance I see my family and friends every weekend. These cats are taken care of and spayed and neutered! I will take them back without a thought and I have no need to as of yet. Some people are responsible with their pets, and you cannot put a label on everyone. Obviously you dont pay attention very well. I did not intend for my cat to be pregnant and she was on a waiting list. What was I supposed to do? I had 2 weeks to go before she was able to be spayed. Would it have been better to give her a cat abortion or perhaps club her kittens in a potatoe sack??
    So I realized that it would be a positive experience whether you think it is or not. It was a learning lesson and it did show me the miracle and beauty of life! Call it selfish or mean. It wasnt, I was circumstance that came about, and made it the best for both of us. After that she was spayed. I found good homes for them, and I know that the owners are taking good care of them. These cats wont be going to a shelter. You are overly judgemental and there is no need point the angry finger at all owners who had a litter. Im very happy and fortunate that Conan is alive sitting on my lap. He is and his sibling were very lucky to live good lives. It is a tragedy that people have litters and give them away to strangers or let them loose. But to show contempt for those who have taken the proper steps insuring the animals life in a good home is just being overdramatic.
     
  16. Also to add:

    When did I say I was purposely breeding my animal? I was not breeding her. BIG difference from me purposely letting her hump, and her escaping! If you read I said it was an accident...

    I never said I gave any of the kittens to the animals. Where did that come from???:confused:

    Anyother nonsense you would like to conjure?
     
  17. graven

    graven Member

    You are missing the point. Why wasn't your cat spayed to begin with? If you had adopted her from a shelter or a rescue group, she would have been spayed before she was adopted. If you bought her from a 'responsible breeder', you would have been required to spay or neuter before a certain age or the cat would have had to be relenquished to the breeder. So you must not have done that. I am making assumptions, yes. Where did you get the cat? It must have been from someone who had an 'accidental' litter of kittens, or bred the cat to experience the 'miracle of life', and was either selling them cheap or giving them away. Which is the problem. Instead of adopting, you just got a kitten from someone else who made the same mistake you did. And you took chances away from shelter pets to get adopted. Good job, though.

    Why is it so great? What is so natural and beautiful about adding to the overpopulation of animals? Cats and dogs aren't 'natural'. Humans have been domesticating them for a very long time. And yes, you can spay a momma cat or dog if it's early on enough in the pregnancy, and not have puppies ot kittens, or any adverse affect on the momma.

    Though, there really isn't any point to arguing with someone who won't listen and insists they haven't done anything wrong. I just hope you don't get any other animals and allow them to breed by 'accident' or purposely.
     
  18. I got my cat off the street. She was running around the apartment complex where we lived. There were cats running around from people who did not take care of their animals. The owner whoever they were was not taking care of her. She had ear mites, and was not spayed. I dont even think she had ever been to the vet.
    You may say that I took away a shelter Cats life and what if, what if, and what if. But I honestly know that I wouldnt have gone to the shelter to get a cat even if I did not come across Luna. Even if I didnt take her in she would most likely be dead our out there now having loads of kittens....
    But the point is that I adopted this cat off the streets, and she had the potential of being a shelter cat or worse. She got past my husband and had a litter before the spay date. Instead of lamenting and pulling my hair out I let her have those kittens. No kitty abortions, or drownings.

    But I took responsibilty and made sure that those babies were well taken care of.;)
     
  19. [​IMG]Conan and baby Gaea




    Luna and her litter[​IMG]
    Mantra is the newest addition to our family. She was ADOPTED from the shelter.
    [​IMG]
     
  20. graven

    graven Member

    "But I honestly know that I wouldnt have gone to the shelter to get a cat even if I did not come across Luna."

    Why not? That is the most thoughtless statement I have seen in a while. So you admit you wouldn't have wanted to help a shelter cat, and you allowed your cat to have her kittens, and thoughtlessly took away a chance at life for more shelter cats. Your friends might have adopted a kitten from a shelter. But they didn't, they got one from you. I hope you're proud.

    "Anyway, Luna ended up getting pregnant with our neighbors cat Sammie"

    Well. This wouldn't have happened if your neighbors cat had been neutered, would it? That is irresponsible.

    There are all kinds of places to go for cheap or free spay and neuter of your pets.

    http://www.lovethatcat.com/spayneuter.html
    http://operationnoblefoster.org/speuter/resources.htm
    http://snaptx.org/
    http://www.petsandanimals.org/spayneuter_services.html
    http://www.friendsofanimals.org/spaying/htline.html
    Pit bull specific
    http://www.pbrc.net/speuter.html

    If it's 'too far' or you 'don't have the time', or you 'can't afford it',
    why do you have an animal anyway? If you can't afford to get one cat spayed, how are you going to pay for vet bills and health checkups on an entire litter? Furthermore, how would you spay and neuter an entire litter if you can't get just one cat done?

    Really.
    There are over 300 kittens in Arizona right now that need homes. It's too bad you wouldn't have adopted one.
     

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