The Palestenians are my brothers and sisters. There is enough room in Israel for all of us. We all have the right to share it.
a lot of Irish are drunks, i never said you all were! come on, open your mind and get past steryotypes you may have heard and learn a little. Israel isnt the only place in the world with jews...
If you said all Irish were drunks you wouldn't be to far off the mark, generalisations are there for a reason because they can be true for a large portion of the population.
I LOOOOOOOVE ignorance. Also, go away. No one wants your hate mongering here. That thread is old and you're just trying to get a reaction again. Stop being such an attention whore.
If you noticed, somebody else replied yesterday, it was they that dragged the thread back up, not me.
Wow, I always assumed nobody knew what they were doing because I don't. Then again if I knew what you were doing....
My dear, have you ever heard the saying "stay quiet and people will think you're ignorant, say something and people know you are"? The same goes for typing. Unless you have something educated, valuable, non-inciteful, and slightly more open-minded to say, please, for both our sakes and yours, don't say anything at all!
I'd have to say that my single biggest issue with Judaism is its attitude towards gentiles. I think the elitism inherent in the religion laid the groundwork for antisemitism.
Hitler probably got his ideas about a master race from the tanakh. It was the most widely distributed literature on a 'master race' at the time (and probably still is). Modern non fundamentalist Jews hopefully have learned not to go around promoting themselves as the 'master race' after the bitch slap that idea got during wwII. I think that as long as zionists realize they are an essential part of something bigger instead of seperate and 'better' they have learned their lesson. Then again, they might be better... at least better than me.
I just thinks it's a shame that that Zionists who's people went through such horrific times during the holocaust can now put another nation through the same. I understand that it is on nowhere near the same scale but still. It's like in schools they say most bullies have indeed been bullied themselves when they were younger.
There is no inherent elitism in Judaism. There was a period, around the 18th and 19th centuries in Europe, that some Jews began to develop this idea of superiority so that they could feel better about their position in society. Some Hasidic groups still maintain this attitude because they really never left that period in Europe. The great majority of orthodox do not hold these views and outside of that period of History did not. It seems to me that some people are put off by the fact that Judaism is not universalist in the same way as other religions. To me, this is a wonderful thing. Islam and Christianity have gone to great lengths to spread their word to new people. As Jews, we don't need to do that. Nobody else is expected to follow our laws. Dauer
It's not about the tanakh, actually, which doesn't speak about a master race. It's about a German translation by Martin Luther that promoted this idea. Martin Luther was also a huge antisemite and Kristalnacht was in his honor. He had suggested it. Although in Luther's version, after destroying all the shops and places of worship the Jews would be driven out of town because they can't be trusted. This was after he had started his career suggesting Jews should be treated well so they would see the good of Christianity and willingly convert. But he changed his mind. Dauer
The tanakh never literally calls Jews the 'master race', instead they are called the chosen of God (or something similar), which amounts to the same thing. All other people (non Jews- Gentiles) are inferior. The Jews are set apart as superior to the rest of the people that God has created, which is exactly what Hitler's group claimed about the aryans. It seems like WWII should have cured the Jewish people of their illusions of superiority, unfortunately they (as a group) still treat non-Jews (gentiles) as inferior citizens within the country they carved out of the weaker (not inferior) populace of Palestine.
Gentiles are never called inferior. Jews are shown to have a greater responsibility for their actions because they have been chosen. They are also shown not to feel as if they are special. "It is not because you are the most numerous of peoples that the Lord set His heart on you and chose you--indeed, you are the smallest of peoples; but it was because the Lord favored you and kept the oath He made to your fathers that the Lord freed you with a mighty hand and rescued you from the house of bondage, from the power of Pharaoh, king of Egypt (Deuteronomy 7:6-8)." That shows we aren't meant to think we're better because we are chosen. Further, "it is not for any virtue of yours that the Lord your God is giving you this good land to possess, for you are a stiff-necked people (Deuteronomy 9:6)." Chosenness has to do with following the mitzvot. At sinai, the people had to say: "All that the Lord has spoken, we will do (Exodus 19:8)." And when they break their word and build the calf, God threatens he will find a new nation to choose. It's following the mitzvot that matters. These mitzvot govern all aspects of life including moral law. We were chosen to recieve these laws, but there is nothing special about us. That's the biblical understanding. As you can imagine, the Jewish one builds from there. Any idea of chosenness that supports superiority has nothing to do with mainstream Jewish thought and subverts the Torah. Dauer
Ok. So were the Jewish people 'chosen' to lead? For if this is the case, it appears that this belief is the old one instilled in nazis and rulers throughout time, a divine mandate to rule (in other words) which any gentile would oppose. I have to admit a bias against God (because of God's actions). God is a complete asshole sometimes and really pisses me off. Like how God lead the Jewish people into slavery and then taking credit for leading them out of slavery later. What a complete piece of shit. I think God has to agree with me on this one (perhaps not, God's reasoning is more convoluted than the best lie a human con artist could come up with).
Lead is my word. A better phrase that is biblical, is that Jews are supposed to be a "nation of priests." Just as priests in Judaism have extra laws of purity compared to the Jewish people, the Jewish people have extra laws of purity compared to the rest of the world. Just as the priests in Judaism, the cohanim, can -- or really could -- act on behalf of the larger nation, the same is true for the Jewish people. There used to be on one of the pilgrimage festivals a sacrifice of 70 animals, one for each of the 70 nations. 70 is a general number and also suggests holiness and perfection, and does not refer to 70 actual nations. The kohanim weren't considered superior to the rest of the people either, just as the Jews are not considered superior to the people of the world. And we also sometimes understand Isaiah 53 as talking about the Jewish people, which makes sense if you read all of Isaiah -- then you know who the servant is. It's not about personal glory or ruling people. It's about God. That's all. Everything done for God. And all those laws deal with the ways to treat non-Jews, being moral in work, at home, in the community, etc. There is nothing that suggests world conquest or domination in any Jewish literature. There is only one piece of land that is important. You know what that is and you seem to have feelings about what's going on there. Make note: If a Jew or even many Jews are acting immorally, they are breaking Jewish law. Israel is a secular state, and as a nation it's not the rabbis, the experts in Jewish law, making the decisions, and I wouldn't want that! That would mean the orthodox in power and fewer freedoms for the liberals like me. But it is a shame that certain powers within Israel have been handling some things so harshly. Still, it is important to recognize the bias of the media in support of Palestine and the way the radical Muslims handle those who speak against them, even among their own people. ---- Either you're an atheist who's pulling my leg or you really are having some struggles with your faith and the bible. This is my story. I've made my peace. I've come to understand that it was written by people who often had their own ideas in mind. God isn't always portrayed the same way and I can think of at least one instance where it seems like David said, "God did it." rather than owning up to murdering somebody. It's like blaming the dog when somebody farts. He wasn't superstitous. Some parts of the text attack other parts of the text. There's a whole world of modern biblical scholarship out there. Still, I don't have a problem seeing different levels to the text either. At the same time, I will go past the plain meaning and look for why things were probably written as they were. And I still have no problem with mystical or exegetical understandings of the text either, as they all have their place to me. They're just an extension of the text, meanings within meanings encircling Meaning. There are others who are perfectly comfortable taking the bible literally and finding reasons why God's actions were okay. I have no problem with that. I feel better looking at it as many other people trying to understand God and their relationship to God. That's something I can relate to. I also don't think there's anything wrong with being mad at God. At least it's engaging in some way with the Divine. I hope that helped at least a little. It helped my anyway. I'm just taking my first steps down this blatantly liberal perception and I haven't really had the chance to put it all together in one place yet. Thanks. Dauer I guess it's like the psychoanalysts who have you lie on the couch and talk while they nod their head and jot on their little notepad. I had one of those once. He looked like Freud, too. But he didn't have me lie down. I sat on the sofa. That was a nice sofa.
