question to the all the atheists

Discussion in 'Agnosticism and Atheism' started by rygoody, Feb 5, 2009.

  1. rygoody

    rygoody Senior Member

    If God existed. What would that mean?
  2. relaxxx

    relaxxx Senior Member

    Depends on your definition of God, if you have a weak abstract definition of just some being that created the universe but does not interfere with anything then his existence means very little. If the egomaniac, emotional, war mongering God of popular religion actually existed then it means were all doomed to eternal hell. 30 billion souls, just pawns for devil wars.
  3. Hoatzin

    Hoatzin Senior Member

    I kinda assume there probably is a god. Doesn't really affect how I live my life though.
  4. Any Color You Like

    Any Color You Like Senior Member

    Not every question has an answer nor a meaning.
  5. I dunno, perhaps, it would mean, that there's a God??

    Ok, but here's my take on God. Think about it, religion has actually convinced people that there is an invisible man living in the sky that watches everything you do every minute of the day and has a special list of ten things he doesn't want you to do And if you do any of these ten things, he sends you to a horrible place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time! Oh, by the way, did I mention that he loves you????

    Are you kidding me? That sounds like a fabricated story made up by some guy who was drunk off his rocker.

    But I want you to know something, when it comes to believing in God, I really tried. I really really tried. I tried to believe that there is a God who loves us very much, and keeps a close eye on things. I really tried to believe that, but the more you look around, the more you realize, something about our earth is screwed up. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed. In any decently-run universe, this guy would've been out on his all-powerful ass a long time ago.

    So that's why I chose not to be another mindless religious robot and blindly believing that all of this is in the hands of some spooky incompetent father figure who doesn't give a shit.
  6. jumbuli55

    jumbuli55 Member

    First, being an atheist IMHO is not much different from being a theist.
    Both have beliefs based on premises that neither side can prove or disprove empirically, beyond any doubt (not in terms of literal interpretation of what is written in the books of the past ages, but much larger argument in terms of the Nature of the Universe itself).

    For each argument one side advances about existence or nonexistence of Higher Power or Intelligence taking active part in affairs of Universe there can be found an equally reasonable claim and a counterargument from another side pointing to the opposite. And did we mention deists?

    Even top physicists and brightest minds of XXth century remained at odds with each other over such a contentious subject.

    Second, if God or any kind of Higher Power, or Powers or Intelligence that we are not directly aware of exist, then what it means would entirely depend on the Nature and Intent of such Superpower or Superpowers.
  7. lithium

    lithium frogboy

    Well if it could be verified empirically it would be the biggest scientific discovery ever made, it would fundamentally reshape our understanding of ourselves. I think most scientists would love such a discovery to be made, think of all the questions it would raise, all the new frontiers of knowledge it would open for us to learn about... If there were the slightest scrap of evidence, just one paltry thing that could not be explained by anything other than a god, we would jump on it and maybe finally figure out that ultimate unified theory.

    Unfortunately it's just a nice fairy story most people don't grow out of.
  8. jumbuli55

    jumbuli55 Member

    What people do when they have no empirical evidence to prove something one or another way?
    They resort to their own emotions, desires and intentions.
    Depending on those three they project the worldvision.
    And that's what everybody does.
    It is evident if you read what anyone ever said or wrote about it.
    Even rocket scientists do that.

    So, indeed, what everybody ends up with is a fairy story :)
  9. lithium

    lithium frogboy

    You think rockets work because the people who design them intend and desire for them to go up into the sky? Nothing to do with testing, evidence and calibrating their design to the physical world as best it can be measured and understood, then. Yep, makes sense[​IMG]
  10. jumbuli55

    jumbuli55 Member

    No, I did not say such a thing (that rockets fly purely out of scientists desire, without testing, evidence or calibration) lol
    Where did you see me stating such a thing?

    Subject here, as I understood, was not rockets or how they fly, but whether God exists and if God exists then what it means?
    I expressed my thoughts on it on Post #6.

    As far as my previous comment goes [Post #8] , from what I have read on this particular subject, it's been my observation that even the rocket scientists, who are known for most consistently relying on empirical data (they do this for living), even they get at odds with each other when it comes to subject of God ,or forces or phenomena that they can't explain , nor prove or disprove empirically.

    Even them, rocket scientists, end up [in such an absence of empirical data or hard evidence] drawing inferences that, in deeper analysis, are only reflective of their own pre-existing or existing desires, emotions, intentions and etc.

    Hence what I stated above :)
  11. lithium

    lithium frogboy

    Thanks for clearing that up - in my defence you didn't express yourself very clearly; "even rocket scientists do that" obviously lends itself to the interpretation that you meant they "do that" about the thing that rocket scientists are wont to do, which is to design rockets...

    And yes indeed, rocket scientists are outside of their field of specialisation when they are approaching the subject of the existence or non-existence of god, and are obviously as prone to the same errors of thinking that the rest of us are. However I maintain that a good scientist will know to apply the same principles of knowledge that she applies to her day job to the rest of her experience, and therefore won't make claims which are not supported by evidence or run contrary to evidence. Indeed scientists in general are more likely to do this than the general population, and hence more likely to be atheists, but obviously they can make mistakes of logic and inference in thinking about "spiritual" matters just like everyone else:)

  12. No, that's George Carlin's take on God.
  13. jumbuli55

    jumbuli55 Member


    not to render you defenseless, but "even rocket scientists do that" was preceded by

    "What people do when they have no empirical evidence to prove something one or another way?
    They resort to their own emotions, desires and intentions.
    Depending on those three they project the worldvision.
    And that's what everybody does.
    It is evident if you read what anyone ever said or wrote about it".

    I thought it was clear that about it referred to the subject of this thread :)
  14. lithium

    lithium frogboy

    Nope, that is very ambiguous and poorly expressed, I'm afraid...
  15. jumbuli55

    jumbuli55 Member

    Ok, so be it , I wasn't about to write a treatise on it :)

    And by the way, since you mention it, this was no less ambigious and poorly expressed than what you misunderstood :

  16. lithium

    lithium frogboy

    On the contrary there are no subjectless sentences, neologisms or syntactical confusions in that quote.

    This childish bickering is taking thread pointlessly off topic, apologies to the OP and anyone who bothered to read it...
  17. jumbuli55

    jumbuli55 Member

    Exactly on point :)
  18. Fault Finder

    Fault Finder Guest

    I think that depends upon what kind of God He was. A non intervention God would make little difference. A intervention god would mean that we need know what causes Him to intervene, in what manner He intervenes, and what causes Him to intervene. If He is an all controlling god, then we can just put it on auto pilot and let Him do His thing. I believe He is a God of intervention.
  19. Fault Finder

    Fault Finder Guest

    That's the way it sounds to me, and I am a theist. I don't know where you got all this stuff, but it is a horribly distorted picture of God and His relationship with us.

    I couldn't agree with you more that the world is messed up really bad, but I think your placement of blame on God is misplaced. We did it all by our little selves.

    "Greater love has no man than he who would lay down his life for a friend." I hardly think that "not giving a shit" is a credible charge for a God who died so we could live.

    Trying to believe what the Bible says is a far cry from repentence and calling on God for forgiveness. Do you think maybe you went about this thing in the wrong way?
  20. heeh2

    heeh2 Senior Member

    distortion lol

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