Question for Transexuals

Discussion in 'Transexual and Transgender' started by straightguy, Jul 7, 2012.

  1. straightguy

    straightguy Guest

    was having a discussion with someone else about this and thought it made sense to talk to an actual transexual about it, so here goes.

    do you let your partner know about your history if you're post-op? do you make sure to let them know at least before sex, or before any other type of contact? if not, why not?

    I've read some answers already and it seems that no one feels they should disclose anything to anyone. then there are a lot of analogies about medical history, plastic surgery, etc. but the truth of the matter is that I would most likely suffer serious emotional distress if I found out I had slept with a transexual. it's logical to assume that most men feel the same way I do. if you know that you're getting someone to do something they don't really want to, wouldn't the right thing to do be to tell him the truth?
     
  2. 3....2.....1 Delete
     

  3. You have slept with post op transsexuals and don't know it... ok time to freak out now..

    oh it wasn't me.. i am a transbian. I only like other gurls or guyz like me.
     
  4. And that, my friends, is called transphobia. OH NOES YOU SLEPT WITH A GAL WHO PREVIOUSLY HAD A DICK! WHAT DO?
    This is precisely the idea that fuels transphobic hate crimes.


    As for whether a partner ought to know, I don't know. If a person has had top surgery and not bottom surgery (surgery on your junk), it's probably wise to say something because it's going to be fairly obvious once there is naked tiem. Bottom surgery and not top surgery, well, I don't know. I think that's between the partners, don't you?
     
  5. Invisible Soul

    Invisible Soul Burning Angel

    If you're attracted to someone, you're attracted to them, end of discussion. Straight guys mainly want transsexual women to disclose their medical histories to them, so that there's no chance of them "mistakenly" being attracted to a transsexual. But that is an oxymoron, as it's not possible to be attracted to someone "by accident", and finding out someone is trans does not erase the fact that you were attracted to them before disclosure.

    Transsexualism (at least for many people who suffer with it) is a medical condition, not an identity, and therein lies the conflict between trans people who don't want to be defined by a medical condition, and non-trans people who see transsexual as an identity, and a label for a person. Expecting a trans person to "admit" to being a gender they do not see themselves as being, is basically asking them to participate in their own oppression. Generally speaking, people do not go through the hardships, pain, and distress of transition to be seen as transsexual, they go through those things to be seen and recognised as the gender they identify themselves as being.
     
  6. Kinky Ramona

    Kinky Ramona Back by popular demand!

    I'd like to know if someone I was with was a post-op transsexual, but that's just because that's a really big part of their history, it shapes them as a person, and it DOES matter. Doesn't really matter if it's a one night stand, but if it's a serious relationship, keeping that a secret is a pretty big deal.
     
  7. I'm sorry, are you a queer? Because you sound like another self-entitled cissexual who thinks they can speak for us.
     
  8. drumminmama

    drumminmama Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Reasons, you need to be reasonable, OK?
    invisible Soul is definitely entitled to speak on the issue. Look at IS's other posts.
     
  9. My apologies. This is an issue I tend to go from zero to sixty on.

    I nevertheless seriously, strenuously object to transsexualism as a medical issue.
     
  10. Invisible Soul

    Invisible Soul Burning Angel

    No, I am not "a queer". Or indeed gay, for that matter. Not that there's anything wrong with being gay of course.

    I did not claim to speak on behalf of all trans people, and specifically stated as such in the post you quoted. However, there is no one single person who can legitimately claim to speak on behalf of all trans people, and that includes you. That you appear to be oblivious (or just plain ignorant) to the irrefutable fact that some trans people do not identify with trans as an identity, only their gender, shows that you are no more qualified to speak on behalf of all trans people than I am.
     
  11. Your use of "many" is what ticked me off - qualifiers are good and thank you for using them, but given the rejoicing I saw (and experienced) when "gender identity disorder" was taken off the books as a disease, I can comfortably say that your qualification of "many" is very wrong.
    I'm aware I can't speak for all trans* folk (I certainly wouldn't try because there's no two people alike) and although I have never met even so much as one of the people you describe, I know they likely exist, but as a trans* person, albeit a slightly different flavor of queer than a transsexual, I actually am more qualified than you are to talk about it.

    If I can offer some advice, in interest of not having queers get on your cissexual case, you may wish to note that your words are observations/thoughts/etc. Because otherwise you sound like you're talking FOR us, which is rude and will result in someone getting on your case far harder than I did.
     
  12. Invisible Soul

    Invisible Soul Burning Angel

    What I said was not false. "Many" does not equate to "majority", but you must have believed I meant that, as that is the only reason you could have had to be "ticked off" by me saying that. There are plenty of people (trans and non-trans) who do not agree with transsexualism being classed as a mental health disorder (or a pathology), but who do believe nonetheless that an incongrousness between ones' physical sex and and gender identity is a medical condition. But crucially, a medical condition that one is born with. One that is both neurological, and biological in nature, rather than psychological. Disagreeing with transsexualism being seen as a mental disorder is not necessarily an outright dismissal of it as a medical condition.

    And no, you are no more qualified than I am to talk about it. One thing that I discovered from closely observing the "trans community", is that there are deep divisions within that community. And unlike you, I have seen quite a few trans-labelled (not trans-identified) people who are exactly as I described. And much more still, who would have major objections to transsexualism being classed as a "flavor of queer". So on the contrary, you are no more qualified than me to talk about it.

    The trans umbrella is very wide, and encompasses many different sorts of people. Which is the main problem with anyone claiming to speak on behalf of the trans community as a whole. You have just said you are not transsexual. So that, on top of everything else you've said is just further evidence that you are not any more qualified than me to talk about issues specifically pertaining to transsexuals.
     
  13. Aww, fuck. I had a nice post all written out and then my browser crashed and took it with it.

    Where are you meeting these people? How many trans* people do you know? What percentage of the gender minority folk you know feel this way? I fully admit, thinking on it, that my own identity as a genderqueer person is influencing who I talk to and what I read with regard to trans* identity as relevant here. I'm inclined to think that most people will take to the identity for one reason or another, however.
    Also, as a member of the community, divided though we are and I certainly note when I'm talking about an aspect of the community to which I don't belong (I felt the way you talked about the subject impuinged the whole group or I would have phrased things differently) I'm still more qualified to talk about this than you are. You are cissexual. I am not, which gives me a certain perspective you lack.

    Queer, as a reclaimed word, means, basically anyone who isn't heteronormative, heterosexual, or cissexual. There is divide as to whether the word ought to be taken back, but I think it should be because I'm a big fan of taking away the power of insults.


    "Many" implies a very large number, which is what I took issue with.

    I'm beginning to suspect we may be talking about somewhat different angles to the issue, too, actually, upon re-reading.
     
  14. Invisible Soul

    Invisible Soul Burning Angel

    Both through observation and direct discussion, "these people" are posting all over the internet, and actually not difficult to find at all. I am glad that you acknowledge that your identity as a genderqueer person does have a bearing on the people in the trans community that you have direct contact with. Even if your last point is true (and perhaps it is), it is certainly also true that even many transsexuals who do self-identify as trans, do not identify in any way as queer. And some also strongly object to transsexualism being linked with queer identities.

    You say I'm cissexual, how do you know that? Besides, whether or not I'm cis has no relevance when discussing facts on this issue. Facts are facts, whether they are talked about by cis or trans people has no effect on a statement if it is based in fact. Nothing I have stated in this thread is untrue, although I have clearly stated they are not true for all trans people. Now, me being cis or trans actually has no relevance on the truth in the statements I made. They would be true regardless. Being cis would not erase the truth in anything I've said. And I would argue that a cissexual person is no less qualified to talk about this issue than a trans person talking about an aspect of the trans community with which they don't belong, and with which they do not personally identify.

    As for the word "queer" being reclaimed, I'm not sure if non-transsexual people have any right to "reclaim" that word on their behalf. There are many, many transsexual people who would take major offense to being called queer. Especially those who identify as being straight. Now, I am aware that there is some homophobia within the trans community, but I do not believe that homophobia is the main reason why some transsexuals reject the word "queer" as a label for themselves. I can understand why some gay people feel the need to reclaim the word (for the record, I would never call anyone by that word), and also some trans people, but I think it would be fair to say that generally speaking, transsexuals do not identify as being queer if they identify as heterosexual.

    Well, the huge difficulty in discussing numbers regarding those who others would label as trans but who do not self-identify as that, is that those people generally do not participate within the trans community. The fact that they are not openly trans, and live completely as the gender with which they identify, makes it very difficult to say with any accuracy, how many people there are who are trans-labelled, but not trans-identified. But certainly, I have seen some trans-labelled people openly stating that they do not identify as trans.

    We may be talking about somewhat different angles to the issue... I'm not sure. lol
     
  15. I'm not messing with quotes on my kindle. That's only going to result in a frustrating mess.


    And those trans* folk who object to the term are perfectly in their right to do so, whether that has to do with their sexuality or not (I kind of getting to the point that I prefer gender, sexual, and romantic minorities as an alternative to queer, even if it came from a furry - it's more inclusive with less lumping). And I am nevertheless in the right to use queer, particularly in relation to myself, just the same.

    You have indicated that you, iirc, are not trans* through you statement in response to my first comment to you and your subsequent replies. That, according to the generally accepted definition, makes you cissexual. Correct me if I'm misremembering your part of this conversation.


    Don't demonize my "those people", please. That was specifically in reference to the people you know, not a derogatory designation. I'm definitely involved with the internet trans* community, admittedly mostly via tumblr, which is home to a significant trans* community, and I'm aware of the general opinions. Not so involved IRL, because that's a little unsafe here and my living situation does not need to be unstable.

    Although this line of conversation is not actually germane to my comment, I'm aware of the difficulties in pinning down total numbers. The best guess we have is about 1-2% of the total population is trans*, but that's possibly not accounting people who can't, won't, or chose not to (sometimes openly) identify as such.

    Replace "cis" and "trans*" with the dominant and minority groups of your choice. What the fuck do I know about the struggles of people of color, other than what I have learned about and observed? My ass is white, and my place is very different in my actions as an ally to people of color in their struggle than my place as a trans* person in agitating for equality a cissexist culture. People who do not belong to the minority group in question need to fucking listen. Their input is sometimes valid (and sometimes it's ignorant, misinformed, or cookie-seeking 'ally' behavior) but in a different way and I'm going to examine their contributions with a fine, fine tooth comb before accepting them. It's an issue of lived experience versus empathetic experience. If some is of the dominant group, the latter is as close as they are going to get, short of a repeat of Black Like Me.
    That is why cis discussion of trans* issues is not quite the same as trans* discussion of them, imo.

    I think I got tangled up in my perception of your wording, and you were talking about a different angle of it.

    Also, I'm sorry for the frequent editing. The last time I talked about this stuff, it got kind of ugly/I noticed a pattern in my own behavior I want to weed out and I second guess myself in talking about them a lot because of it.

    Lastly, I gotta note, you're coming off as patronizing. Please refrain.


    I'll respond to the rest of it in the morning.
     
  16. Orison

    Orison my dog is full of stars Lifetime Supporter

    Im just going to sit over here and paint my nails..
     
  17. GLENGLEN

    GLENGLEN Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter


    And While Your At It, Do Something About The Ladders In Your Fishnets.

    Peeling Toenail Paint, And Ladders, Are Not A Good Look...[​IMG].



    Cheers Glen.
     
  18. Orison

    Orison my dog is full of stars Lifetime Supporter

    there were no ladders in my recent pictures.. :eek: only plywood..
     
  19. Invisible Soul

    Invisible Soul Burning Angel

    @because-of-reasons:

    I am all in favour of more inclusiveness, and less exclusion. This is part of the reason why I refuse to use terms like queer for anyone unless they specifically see themselves as that, and would wish me to address them in those terms. But even then, I would feel a bit uncomfortable with it, as I don't like othering anyone for a part of themselves which does no harm to anyone. You are of course entitled to use queer in relation to yourself, and as long as you have no issues in being called that, then I wouldn't object to the term being used in that context. People calling themselves queer is fine, but other people using that term, especially for people who do not identify with it, is unacceptable to me.


    I never actually expressly stated that I wasn't trans at any point during our conversation. I only stated that I wasn't queer/gay. However, anyone reading my posts in this thread would very likely assume that I'm not trans, so I guess it's not too difficult to see why you also thought that. You were correct though to think that.

    I was not insinuating you were "demonizing" anyone. When I put "those people" in quotes, I was simply highlighting the people you were referencing. I was in no way implying that you were being derogatory to those people.

    It is a very small percentage of the population that is trans, but it's pretty much impossible to come to an exact figure, as there are surely many people who have gender dysphoria, or at least some transgender feelings who are not open about those things. And those who have transitioned, but have no affiliations with the trans community, and do not identify as trans.

    Whilst your assertions about dominant and minority groups are largely true, and I mostly agree with them, I think the main thing that has to be said here, is that NOBODY can lay claim to anyone's unique lived experiences, unless they themselves have experienced them. Unless you have truly been in someone else's shoes, you cannot really speak for them. You can certainly speak out in support of them, but you cannot speak for them. There are some people in the trans community who have as little knowledge of what it's actually like to be a transsexual, as someone who is cis has. Only people who are actually transsexual can accurately describe what it's like to be them, just as only someone who identfies as genderqueer like yourself can really give an accurate depiction of what being genderqueer is like.

    Now, the one thing that all trans people have in common, is that they are oppressed minorities. But there are also non-trans people who are part of an oppressed minority group. The problem with at least some people in oppressed minority groups, is they like to play "the oppression olympics". When in my mind, all oppression based on harmless aspects of a person's being and personality is bad, and it should all be treated with equal contempt.

    You accused me of suggesting that you were "demonising" people, when I was doing no such thing, and you are also making blatant assumptions about my person without knowing anything about me. So a little self-analysis wouldn't go amiss before saying I'm being patronizing.

    I haven't seen anything particularly vitriolic in your posts, so I don't think you particularly needed to edit them. Conversations on this subject and similar ones do sometimes have a habit of becoming ugly, and it's particularly disheartening when the people tearing strips off each other are actually on the same side. So I can understand not wishing to come off as antagonistic, which is something I always do myself when talking about such sensitive subjects. Sometimes, people are just looking for a fight though, and there's not much you can do about it in that instance.


    @Orison + Glen: You guys are awesome! xD
     

  20. That one gives you away.

    Your thought process being along the lines of if she is not A, then she must be B without it seeming to register the obvious C or D, in your "generally accepted definition"

    As for that C or D, that in itself is the red flag, if you were what you say you are, been through certain things. No one would have to explain to you what is logically wrong with "Indicated you are not trans...makes you cis"
     

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