question for the Christian haters

we weren't even discussing the same point.

 

it's a valid one.....one man's "right" is another man's "wrong" and vice versa ad infinitum

 

again, the point was whether or not he could derive some cultural parellel between the statement "all have sinned" on the christians part to the secular "everone has fucked up" as an example.

 

Yes, but then wouldn't christianity (or at least catholicism), to be more specific and direct on example directly forgive those pricks of the conscience and therefore justify fuck ups?

 

is forgiveness a bad thing? i mean, not in the case where someone is just following the "judicial guidelines," but in cases where people are really sorry? every society, and i do mean every society, has it's own guidelines for those same sorts of actions. it's a basic function of society.

 

well the abranic traditions effectively sidestepped that one.......we all born in orignal sin....it's god's eyes, yer born a fuck-up :H

 

Forgiveness is a terrible thing when people know that they can attain it after fucking-up. Forgiveness is connected to religion in such a way these days that it contradicts the laws of the country. Sure, a goernment, society, etc may issue a smaller punishment for a guilty plea and such; but it is still a punishment. No society will forgive a man for a murder of an innocent, while religion will.

 

i just don't think it's humanly possible not to make a mistake. we're built for it. so i'd still have to say we're all born to fuck up. some fuck ups are worse than others, i guess, but we're all bound to fuck up sometime.

 

Apparently not. Because "sin" doesn't exist.

 

the law is concerned with the body, the religion is concerned with the soul. what do i care about the soul of a man? i don't even know that it exists. but even without religion, there would still be crimes of passion, wouldn't there? like no one was ever killed over jealousy or greed before someone invented catholocism? that's where my problem lies. i truly don't care what a person thinks is going to become of their soul after they commit an atrocity. chances are the reason they're capable of an atrocity is simple biology.

 

lol. brat.

 

You love it.

 

i do.

 

I personally try my hardest not to "fuck up" in the first place as I feel a lot of Christians also do. Granted, there may be many "christian" people out there who do not think before they act or have no "preconceived ethics" and yet when they do something that they think goes against the "rules" of their religion they find justification merely through confession. But if they don't care in the first place, why do they feel the need to confess or justify after the fact. Do they think they can commit whatever they want and as long as they confess they will go to heaven?

What specific acts are you referring to that christianity justifies. The only ones I know of (by my perception) are the ones that are altruistic and unargueably hurt or infringe upon no one. The ten commandments for example, how could acts as the commandments "commands" infringe upon anyone elses liberties?

For the people who justify their actions by other means, why do you need justification? Is it based on rewards and punnishment? Is it based on karma. Why do you feel certian things are bad actions versus good actions? What will happen if you perform "bad" actions repeatedly? Or do you try to abide by the notion of doing unto others as you would have others do unto you? Simply because you don't like to see humanity distrought?

 

The irony!

 

I often feel the opposite. There are many sins that I commit that society never knows about and even if they did, it wouldn't even be something they would look down upon. In fact, most of my sins would brobably be looked at as fitting right in with normal society, yet I feel horrible for committing them purly because I have let my self, my religious beliefs, my saviour, and my God down. As A result I pray for the strength, awarness and the diligence to change my ways so as to not committ the sin. It becomes a very important part of my lifestyle to learn about sin and limit it in my actions. Only then, through this hard work to better myself am I forgivin!

 

if we just deal with christianity as a society, incstead of a religion, there's laws a regulations to be followed. but the same people condemning christianity for having a concept of damnation are the same people condemning the christian faith for their concept of forgiveness.

 

Why do we need to consider a religion as a society, there is no country that is strictly a "Christian society".

What don't we just forget Christianity and deal with our society of diversity and build our principles upon the maxim: Do as you will as long as it doesn't infringe upon someone else's right to do the same. Essentially, a variation of the "golden rule", which coincidentally, isn't Christian in origin.

All the tripe contained in Christianity....I mean you can't forget it is based on netherworld bullshit.

 

That sounds good to me, but if you believe that than why do you criticize christians for doing their thing? It is not infringing on any of your rights is it?

So, what is the origin of the "golden rule"?

If being a good person, sacrificeing ones own selfishness for helping others, etc. is looked favorably upon in society than what do Christians have to gain or lose by associating their actions with spirituality?

 

Because Christianity is more than just the "golden rule" it is a religion with an agenda built upon CONVERSIONS and based upon supernatural mumbo jumbo that anyone can twist and turn to fit their own little "interpretation".

The question is: Can we have a good society without all the extra baggage of Christian netherworld gibberish? I say, indeed we can.