Psychadelics open gateway to hell for me! I need help!

Discussion in 'LSD - Acid Trips' started by unholytripper, Sep 17, 2013.

  1. So I'm now 20 and have been occasionally using psychedelics (either mushrooms or LSD) since I was 16. I've thoroughly enjoyed every trip I've had until an LSD trip I took alone in the woods about a couple months ago.

    In the past my trips have generally consisted of colors brightening and changing, geometric patterns, music taking on whole new meanings, and deep reflective thoughts on my life, but nothing too out of this world. No prior experience could come close to comparison to what I've now experienced.

    I live in Austin and my preferred trip setting had become riding my mountain bike with headphones at the Greenbelt, a public forest of hike and bike trails in the city. It had always been an uplifting and fun experience, until this day...

    I had the day off and spent the early part cleaning my house up. I felt like having the place tidy and having all the dishes and laundry done would put me in a more peaceful state of mind. I also decided to try out some new music so I jump on the net and see what people say is especially good for tripping. After browsing through a few forums, I noticed a trend of people recommending the band Shpongle, so I decide to check them out. After listening to them on youtube, I thought their music didn't make much sense but it would probably sound cool while tripping, so I decide to give it a shot. I download a couple of their albums and load them onto the Ipod. I take off to the Greenbelt in my truck with my mountain bike, my Ipod, three hits of LSD, and a gram of bud at about 2:00.

    I stop to pick up a one hitter and a couple spare tire tubes and get to the Greenbelt at about 3:00. I start playing some David Bowie on my ipod, drop the acid, and ride off on my bike. After about 30 minutes I begin to feel it coming on. I ride for a while until I come to a private spot where I feel the acid hit me like a wave. I realize I need to stop and let it ride out and I could hardly still ride my bike at that moment anyway. So I sit down and use my last bit of focus to change the music to the album "Are You Shpongled?" by Shpongle. This is where things begin to take off.

    What exactly happened and in just what order is a little blurry but my thoughts on the hallucinations are relatively intact. I will write this as best as I can remember and describe, but much of this profound experience seemed to take place out of body and either did not stick to memory and/or I simply don't have the words to describe it.

    I remember first wondering how such senseless music all of a sudden made perfect sense on this drug. I closed my eyes and it was amazing. I opened my eyes and saw everything in a new way. Every color was intensified dramatically. I could feel the connection with every plant around me like. I felt a strong, positive, uplifting energy flowing through me. This part was very much like earlier trips only much more intense.

    After that I very well remember seeing a very large black snake with red eyes approach me. It was probably the size of an anaconda and like no snake I'd ever seen. At first it was about 30 feet away. I wasn't immediately frightened but wasn't very interested in seeing an evil looking snake so I looked away. Surprisingly, when I looked back it was closer. I looked away again, this time shaking my head and rubbing my eyes. When I looked back again, it had gotten even closer. Now it was almost to me and when it got close it raised its head to look at me eye to eye and seemed to communicate without words, "Don't look away. Just take it all in." I was terrified and felt a strong urge to pull the plug on my Ipod and turn away but I chose to face this fear. As I focused, the snake and the rest of the world began to dissolve leaving only the eyes that turned into rods reaching out into space. The rods moved around slightly and then steadied like a shooter locking onto a target. Suddenly my essence was shot through.

    I first arrived in a perfect world. I felt every worry dissolve away. I felt as though I understood the meaning of life and it was to die and make it here. I can't remember what I saw but just remember thinking that I was in heaven. I also remember thinking I'd met God but have no memory to draw from this. I could have stayed there for an eternity but alas, it soon took a turn for the worst.

    What seemed to happen next I'd describe as my ego beginning to rapidly expand. I first felt extreme pride in being able to not cower down to the snake. Then I felt pride building up from everything I had been been proud of in my life. This huge ego bubble was about to pop...

    Then what seemed to happen I would relate to being arrested. Only this was some kind of spiritual cop that was far, far more threatening than any earthly cops. I was being taken in...

    The next thing I remember is feeling ripped from my close family members as if they just died. I remember thinking, "This feels very bad." First my parents, then my brothers.

    I then started to experience crystal clear visions of past misdeeds. I can't recall how many there were but I remember two of them. I saw me watching porn and then everything in the room disappeared besides me and the screen. I also saw me lie to my mother. After these visuals I began to literally feel like shit. I felt the sensation of flies buzzing all around me.

    And then something happened I cannot recall. I came out thinking and unintentionally saying aloud, "I'm going to hell." I caught myself and said, "No." in disbelief. Then I felt something and said, "No." in a pleading way. And then I felt something and yelled, "No!" in a fearful and terrified way.

    All of a sudden the world seemed to start tilting me backwards as a gateway into hell opened. I ripped out my headphones and started to run but there was no escape. I cannot recall the next two to three hours.

    I finally came to when I ran fully clothed into a creek. I was seeing snakes all around that were rushing towards me. I flailed around helplessly for a minute or so yelling aloud words attached to positive memories to no avail. I go to get out of the water and the bank appears lined with crocodiles as I'm climbing out which startles me to scurry out. The hallucinations started to subside but looking around I could only see death. The plants were no longer bright and alive, but dull and dead. I saw people around and thought they were also in hell with me. At this point my mind was pretty scattered. I was trying to remember how I died and couldn't believe this happened a week before my 20th birthday, just when life's really about to start.

    My shoes and socks were soaked so I took them off and left them behind (shoes were pretty ratty anyway). I had no shirt because it was hot and I had decided to spend the day without it. At this point I was down to only my shorts and although I didn't realize it was covered in cuts from running through cedar trees. I also seriously hurt my left shoulder which took over a week to recover from. I started to remember my truck and mountain bike. I felt my pockets and I didn't have my wallet, keys, or phone (all of which I had the foresight to leave in my truck). I felt as though I'd never return to their world again, the world of my home, my job, my friends and family. All I had was my one hitter and a wet lighter and bag of weed (which I never even got to smoke). I thought I was in hell. I started walking around aimlessly until the trail I was on dead ended into a fence. I hopped over and found myself in a fairly wealthy subdivision. I thought, "So this is hell." I started walking down the street and met a lady outside watering her grass and thought, "So this is who I've got to spend eternity in hell with." I was pretty thirsty so I started drinking from her sprinkler.

    She looked at me strangely and asked, "Are you okay?"

    I said, "I'm okay, I guess. Do you have some more water?" hoping she'd bring me a bottle.

    She said, "No, but hold on." She ran inside and came back with a few snacks, a couple granola bars and some raisins. I stuffed them in my pockets and walked on wondering what hell had in store for me next.

    After about 15 minutes of walking barefoot up and down the street my feet began hurting and I was really wishing I could have another chance at life, a chance to do things right. About then, a police car pulled up, got out, identified himself as APD, and I couldn't have been happier. They could have taken me to jail and I still would have been happy, just happy that I was alive and not in hell. Another cop pulls up and they begin to question me. They remark and laugh about the description from the caller of a deranged, cut up, half naked, young man being totally accurate. One sees my stuffed pockets and asks me to empty them. I start pulling out the snacks and then I pull out the bag of weed as well. One cop grabs it and they really start questioning me now. I try to make up a story but my minds so scattered I can hardly produce a clear sentence. So I simply tell them the truth that I had taken some acid and was just coming down from a nightmare trip. I think they took pity on me because I was so badly cut up and spaced out. They told me there was no way they'd take me to my truck and let me drive but they'd give me a ride home. I was so thankful.

    On the ride home I couldn't even comprehend what had happened. I was seeing mild pattern hallucinations but nothing profound the rest of the night. When I was getting out I noticed a small bag of weed on the floor of the cop car. Thinking it was mine, I grabbed it before shutting the door. The cop said, "Yeah, take that. Smoke it, do whatever you need to with it." in a humorous way. As I got inside, I noticed it wasn't even mine. It was in a smaller bag and full of seeds. So essentially the cops took my one hitter and kind bud and sent me off with a tiny bag of seedy crud and then told me to smoke it. That's off the topic but I thought it was pretty funny.

    So I felt like I need some closure on this trip. Previous trips left me feeling refreshed and at peace with dieing someday. This last trip seemed to have the opposite effect so I wanted to trip again to try and regain what I'd lost. This time I tripped at a buddy's apartment so he could sit for me during the ordeal.

    I ate about 2 grams of very potent mushrooms this time. As soon as it came on I felt a sudden flashback to the acid trip. I recalled how intense and real it felt. I've described it as being "realer than you and I sitting here talking right now." It filled me with terror and I had to lay my head down on the table in front me. I decided to go lay down on my friend's bed until it passed. As I lay there, I felt the horror of hell come over me, as though I knew it would be my eternal destiny for what I've done. At this, I turned to the only direction I could think to, Jesus. I started praying for him to return to my life. I then heard the thought, "Oh, now you need Jesus. Now that you've really fucked up." I lay there in the fetal position twisting and turning until it passed a few hours later.

    I then got up to hang out with my friend feeling very disturbed but trying to conceal it. We watched some TV, smoked a couple bowls, and called it a night.

    The first thing I did the next morning was start drinking beer to try and kill the memory. I thought after those experiences I needed a lot of alcohol and no more psychedelics. However, after further thought, I realized this wouldn't get me anywhere. I decided I'd do anything to save myself from eternal hell and would turn back towards God and the Christian life I'd left behind three years earlier.

    So I quit cigarettes, drinking, watching porn, and dug my Bible out of the attic. I spent a lot of time praying and was beginning to feel my life transform for the better. A few weeks went by and I started backsliding towards my old temptations again. I decided I needed to trip again to receive a message of how I must live my life in order to avert hell and I still wanted positive closure.

    This time I drank about an 1/8th's worth of mushroom tea at my house. I prayed to God to bless the tea, give me insight, and allow me to experience a positive and uplifting trip. I chilled on my back porch and waited for it to kick in.

    It hit me like a wave and all I could do was lay down on the porch and take it in. I started feeling an urge to move my hands in these strange ways. With shoulder, elbow, and wrist movement, my index finger and thumb pressed together, it felt as though I was writing something out. I felt the free will to either restrain it or let it happen, but the movements themselves were not mine. It was as though I was channeling these movements. Throughout the movements, the part of the acid trip I can hardly remember seemed to replay and then, jolt! I felt a jolt of dark energy hit me all of a sudden and literally knock me back. The jolt only lasted a split second but felt like an eternity, an eternity of hell. This scared me greatly. I decide to no longer move my arms but feel an urge to stretch my leg. I started channeling strange leg movements and then, jolt! Same thing happens again. I look around and everything looks dull and dead. Even my dog who's only two years of age appeared old and withered. I decide its time to get my mind on something else.

    I go inside and turn on the computer and pull up a Joel Osteen sermon. I try and watch but his face keeps looking like that of a demon and I can't focus on anything he's saying. I then grab a book I'd been reading called A Case for Christ. If you look at the cover its a hand with a shadow forming a cross in the middle of it. Every time I looked at it the shadow it turned into a portal to hell that would be pull me through if I focused too hard. I tried to read the pages but had absolutely no focus.

    I'm not sure exactly when it started but I began hearing a rattle that seemed to go around in a loop. If I focused too hard, it would get louder and try to pull me in. I was experiencing open and closed eye as well as audio hallucinations all acting like portals into hell. If I focused too hard on any of them I'd feel that horrific dark jolt.

    I started drinking loads of water to try and pass the tea. I watched a couple videos of sermons to keep my focus on something positive but had a very hard time taking in the message. I felt completely distracted by what was trying to manifest around me, in me. I started feeling tired and wanted to go to sleep but had to open my eyes every time the black doorway appeared. And I'd have to close my eyes every time the black doorway appeared. And I had to have some music playing so I could tune out the rattle in my head. I must have spent about two hours in this battle of breaking focus to keep from feeling the jolt again. I finally fell asleep after that thinking I never wanted this experience again.

    The next day I go to church for the first time in three years.

    So I plan on living a Christian lifestyle henceforth. I pray to God everyday to forgive me for my sins, to keep me in the light, and to give me the strength and will to resist temptation. But is this enough?

    The message from each of these trips has been the same, I'm bound for hell. Will I experience that jolt in the moment of my dieing? I ride a motorcycle so is this some kind of preparation for a sudden death? I sure hope not.

    Is there anyone out there that can relate to this experience or offer some words of encouragement? I really don't want to spend eternity in hell and would do anything to save my soul. Please help!
  2. machinist

    machinist Banned Lifetime Supporter

    tl;dnr version? going to hell sounds AWESOME
  3. guerillabedlam

    guerillabedlam _|=|-|=|_

    Some of your story seems pretty unbelievable, I feel like you may have some distorted recollection of some events from tripping so hard but I found this part amusing...

    I love Shpongle, especially while tripping. It's far from senseless music, it's a carefully crafted hybrid of electronic and organic music that's really psychedelic and can be very powerful and overwhelming music. It's definitely not a lollipops and candy canes type album.

    Psychedelics can have a way of shoving unwanted thoughts and feelings in your face just as they can show you extrodinary beauty. Confronting those misdeeds and perceived experiences of Hell on LSD and subsequently on Shrooms maybe will help you find some resolution to those isssues. If not, well it seems you have taken up a Christian lifestyle so maybe that will provide you some peace.
  4. gendorf

    gendorf Senior Member

    you need to recognize the illusions. And they will pop out of existence!
  5. drumminmama

    drumminmama Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    It's been my experience that imagery is often from deep inside us.

    I'm curious if your "good trip" imagery was Xian in nature?

    All in all, I think you layered too many things together and now want to find a daddy god to make it all right.
    1 person likes this.
  6. Meliai

    Meliai Banned

    dude, the biggest thing I got out of this is that you tried to watch a Joel Osteen sermon while tripping. Now, THAT is someone who is going to hell if anyone in this world is.

    good luck.
    2 people like this.
  7. Mr.Writer

    Mr.Writer Senior Member

    In my opinion it is your faith which is the hell. There is no god seperate from you, you are god, everything is god, otherwise any "god" you imagine is inferior. You try and force heavy moralistic, millenia old tribal teachings onto yourself while in the midst of a psychedelic experience. You lose touch with reality while tripping because you CHOOSE to lose touch with reality while tripping; instead of realizing "I am walking onto private property and look like a crazy person", you view everything through a christian lens. You want to save your soul from an eternity in hell? Stop worrying about things like "souls" and "hell" and "eternity". Start living a good life. A good life DOES NOT EQUAL reading the bible every day and obsessing with some asshole on a podium giving you his interpretation of middle eastern myths passed down for generations by political power structures and people who lack critical thinking abilities. It means being true, honest, just, and being able to look at yourself in the mirror.

    Stop obsessing with myth and with stories and with things in your head. Start doing real things that make a real difference. If there is a hell, and you go to hell for living like this, then fuck the god who sent you there and may he join you there for all eternity.
    1 person likes this.
  8. 0nelove

    0nelove Member

    Man, Joel Osteen while tripping? You've got some iron balls man, I can't think of anything worse while tripping.

    Anyhow, this is the normal religious guilt and repression trip. Don't fret too much.

    You are trying to come to terms with your ego image and what is approved behavior for an ego-image.

    Now would be a good time to search more for the Truth (that is, the absolute, universal truth that is not religious).

    Also explore more of the actual feelings you felt and explore the whys of all that.
  9. deleted

    deleted Visitor

    maybe you need some helldol...

    Joel Osteen dont preach about going to hell. If your going to bash a spiritual person,. do your homework first.. He does not mention hell satan or any other fire and brimstone shit in his sermons..
  10. Mr.Writer

    Mr.Writer Senior Member

    helldol :rofl:

    always good to have handy when FBI flipping
  11. muharic

    muharic Guest

    my opinion
    first i think you have OCD-it has nothing with lsd,trip or your question
    second you have like leftovers of oedips complex
    third you are still not mature enought confront yourself.
    And all bad trips are coused by your beliefs. You must be raised as religios kid?
    my advice keep going to church until you are ready! Your readiness deepends on you.(or keep religion forever and use it as lifeforce,motivation )
    dont worry you are still young as you said its maybe way of your subconscious telling you are not fullfiling your life...
  12. rygoody

    rygoody Senior Member

    religion is for those afraid of hell

    spirituality is for those that have been to hell

    look up 'kundalini'
  13. So I've come to the conclusion that experiencing this trip and trying to interpret my explanation are two vastly different things. I want to add a little more detail as well as point out a few of the prevailing themes in order to distinguish them from much of the mindless jargon I have detailed.

    When I first came down off the first trip, the LSD trip, the only parts I could remember were up until looking the snake in the eyes and then after crashing into the water. I think I put way too much emphasis and detail in the part of the trip spanning from crashing into the water up until being picked up by the police. I just thought I would include it as part of the story but all that stuff was really pretty off the subject. That part of the trip was the part that took place in my head. The part of the trip in between, is what's truly noteworthy here. This part never came back to me until I ate the two grams of mushrooms later. Even now it's difficult to remember or imagine in my sober state of mind and mostly impossible to put into words. But I want to highlight a few of the important things that I can explain in hopes of better conveying what exactly went down.

    -First off, the snake. This was a very large black snake with red eyes and a head about the size of mine. Many would credit this snake to imagination, but how could I have imagined this snake if I had never seen anything like it? And this snake was perfectly crystal clear to me, not just a thought or a whimsical blur. And I even looked away a few times to see if it would fade when I turned back.

    I've done some research and apparently the shamans that take and distribute ayahuasca in the rain forest speak of two snake spirits: the rainbow boa and the black anaconda. The rainbow boa represents good and the black anaconda represents evil. I've scoured the internet and have seen a few posts of people that say they have seen the rainbow boa, but none others who have said they have seen the black anaconda as I have. I would really like to hear from someone who can relate with me for once.

    -Second, heaven. Seriously guys, this shit was undescribably, unimaginably awesome. It was like the best ecstacy you have ever had, times 1000. Plus the colors were all super saturated and just so beautiful that... I don't know how to put it because words simply cannot. It was as though each trip I had had prior to this was a little taste. I am sure you guys probably know what I mean by a little taste, but to be totally enveloped, it was astounding, astounding times 1000. I knew this had to be what heaven was.

    Third, the visions. The visions I had were all so crystal clear. One vision I left out was that of an egg. At first I thought it was some kind of alien egg attached to the ground of another planet but looking back I believe it was the egg from whence my body arrived attached to my mother's ovary. I saw a beautiful divine light come about the egg. I believe it was my soul being placed inside the egg of my mother. I believe I was taken all the way back to the beginning. Later in the trip came the visions of my sins. The two I remember were about seven and eight years old, but oh how crystal clear they were.

    Fourth, the voice(s). I say voice, but really there was no actual audio to it. And it was not English being communicated with me, it was all some kind of telepathic language that I understood oh so well, far better than English. The snake spoke this language as he seemed to tell me, "Don't look away, just take it all in." Anyway, throughout the whole ordeal, I had the distinct feeling that I was recieving a message. Nothing was coming from me besides a few of my own personal thoughts. It was as though I was I was a computer downloading all of this information. Also, I remember asking a couple of questions. One, how was I ever supposed to know that such a place could exist? The answer came in a flash back of my grandmother warning me about hell as a young boy. Two, why couldn't I know the consequences of my actions? The answer recieved seemed to be, "That's the point!" As though life is all about how we act without knowing the consequences. If we steal something and think we got away because nobody saw, we are dead wrong. If we help somebody in return for nothing but to see them more well off, we win in the end. That right there is what I believed to be the meaning of life.

    Fifth, hell. The conclusion of the message was that I was bound for hell. As I had said, the message scared me greatly and I first spoke, "No," in disbelief. The voice replied back and I spoke, "No," pleadingly. And then the ground around me seemed to vortex downward into what appeared to be the passageway into hell and I screamed, "No!" louder and with more fear than ever before in my life. At that point the very last thing I can remember is throwing my Ipod down and trying to run. I do not think I was able to escape however. I have about two hours of completely missing time after that point. At first I wondered why, but I now believe that my mind has mentally blocked it off for biological purposes, for the memory of hell would be so devestating that it would be difficult, perhaps impossible to carry on any sort of remotely normal life with the weight of that memory on my shoulders.

    And lastly, the jolt. When I say I felt a jolt, the only way I could describe it would be to say the devil punching you in the brain. It felt like my soul was ripped out and then instantly shot back into me. It gave me shudders and sent chills down my spine. This shit was as real as real gets, folks. When this shit kept happening I had absolutely zero control over my trip. That's why all I could possibly do was down tons of water and try and distract myself with as much audio and video stimulus as possible to drown out the portal that was trying to manifest itself all around me.

    So that's all I have to add. I hope that perhaps now after going through these points you can understand a bit more clearly what kind of shit I am going through and perhaps provide me with a bit more useful feedback than I have been getting.
  14. Mr.Writer

    Mr.Writer Senior Member

    Have you ever seen a unicorn? Can you imagine one? What about if I feed you a powerful psychedelic that can induce visions, do you think you could really imagine one then?

    Sure, some dudes in the amazon say "black snake is evil", but maybe some dudes somewhere else say "black snake means sexual power". The real question here is what do you think a black snake is? Stop looking outside yourself for this to more and more superstition and religion.

    I agree with you 100%, a full blown LSD experience is well described by the term "heaven". My earlier argument was with any reference to a literal heaven.

    Yes, you mentioned you were on a powerful psychedelic, remember? The one that was so strong that it essentially was heaven on earth? Do you think maybe such a powerful consciousness altering chemical could induce very clear visions?

    It sounds like a powerful psychedelic made you remember the moral teachings of your childhood through the inner mental voice of someone important to you, your grandma. It sounds to me like you were thinking thoughts.

    I can't imagine how terrifying fixating on the christian idea of hell could have been on such a powerful LSD experience. It still is just that though; a powerful LSD experience in which you fixated on religious ideas and scared yourself half to death.

    You never have much "control" over your trip, and physical sensations like jolts are common on psychedelics. Where you are confusing yourself is when you assign the meaning of this to "a portal opening up".

    I understand that the gravity of what you are dealing with is profound, but understand that we are trying to point out that LSD simply magnifies what is already going on in your mind, and for someone who is going through a personal theological revival or questioning, this WILL manifest as an overtly "good vs evil" and "god vs devil" and etc kind of trip. There is absolutely nothing that you described that does not REGULARLY happen on psychedelic experiences, especially a powerful LSD trip.

    Sorry if this doesn't confirm what you want to believe, that satan was trying to open a portal to hell for you, because you took LSD. I don't know, you aren't very clear on what you think this was all about.
  15. You asked if psychadelics might allow me to visually see whatever I'd like such as a unicorn. The answer is a definite no. I have never even been able to close my eyes and picture things in my head by thinking of them as many claim to be able to.

    Another thing I might note is that anytime I've taken psychadelics in the past, plants and trees have appeared brighter and more alive as I'm sure almost everyone here can relate to. Now however, they all lose their color and appear dead to me. Like I said before, even my dog who's only about two or three seemed to look like he was very old and withered. And where I used to feel an uplifting joyous energy, I now feel heavy and tired. Psychedelics literally went from being my absolute favorite thing to do to my absolute least favorite thing to do. And I would seriously love to have more good trips such as in the past but I've decided I'll be taking at least a few months off before I give them another shot.

    And I went into the LSD trip completely agnostic. I was not looking through a "Christian lens" as it has been said. I only later returned to the faith in absolute fear and panic after my following trip. I'll also note about a month later I went to bed praying for Jesus to lift the fear of hell away from me. That night I had my first lucid dream. I could not control my surroundings but had complete control of my actions. At one point I was in a room surrounded by demons. I tried to fly away but could not get through the ceiling. I was trapped. The demons started climbing on top of one another to get to me. Then one grabbed my leg and started pulling me down. Feeling totally helpless I noticed a very bright cross above me. And then it suddenly shot down at me hitting me in the chest. In that moment I felt a jolt of love and all the demons suddenly vanished. I woke up saying aloud, "Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you." It is still hard going on with the memory of my trip but that dream has definitely been a glimmer of hope for me.
  16. Voyage

    Voyage Noam Sayin

    oh bs... he's just like all the other christian wackos, come on man we gotta put everyone into tidy little boxes.




    sarcasm aside, there is something that creeps me out about him when i've seen him talk. each their own but i wouldn't watch him tripping.
  17. scratcho

    scratcho Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    One thing for sure---you're gettin' your moneys worth!! Not a lick of what you experienced was in in the drugs you took. It was and is -ALL inside you.

    I suggest you now do lots and lots of normal things and forget the drugs. Go to the movies. Play ball on the weekends with regular folks. Volunteer someplace you would be needed. Get a dog. Work your job diligently, if you have one. In other words---put time space and effort into getting past this. Sometimes it takes a while to rid oneself of the mental oddities revealed when baked. And above all--use your own mind to try and figure out the mysteries of life and not the minds of hucksters that make money by telling people what they should think and do. Good luck. You'll get better with time. Work on it.
  18. deleted

    deleted Visitor

    he looks funny.. his wife is a hottie.. [​IMG]
  19. Voyage

    Voyage Noam Sayin

    i'd do a 3-way with you and her, leave Joel at home :love:

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