Privatizing Public Schools

State governments are showing the effects of Republicans going to the polls more than Democrats. Take Indiana for example. Catholic schools have seen a 70% increase in enrollment because the state legislature passed a voucher plan.

America has been fighting this battle in the cultural war since at least the 1870's. When Catholics came to America in large numbers, especially Irish Catholics, they found the public schools wanting them to listen to Protestant prayers. So, Catholics went off and founded their own schools. Trouble was, they wanted taxpayers to foot the bill.

During the 1870's, 38 states passed amendments to their constitutions prohibiting the giving of tax dollars to religious groups. Even President Ulysses S. Grant was publicly speaking of the need for separation of church and state.

Today, religious right groups are working to rescind these "Blaine Amendments". But, we don't only have the religious to worry about. Chase Bank is in favor of charter schools (Donating over 300 million dollars to the campaign for them.). Wal-Mart's charitable foundation is pushing vouchers, and donating millions of dollars here and there. ALEC, what Occupy Wall Street taught us about, is in favor of privatizing public schools.

Please, vote in your state elections. Don't give this big a victory to Chase and the Catholic Bishops' Conference.

Check this out:

https://www.au.org/church-state/mar...eatured/challenging-the-school-choice-charade

 

Charter schools being bad or good depend on what the charter states itself.


Public schools are bad or have been bad because No Child Left Behind in it's requirements of what school districts need to do are overwhelming with mandates that the Act does not provide adequate funding for.

Also in terms of individual school districts there are corruptions cases, mismanaged funds, and too high of a salary going to administrators rather than teachers and education departments.

---

The plus side of charter schools is that they can cut costs by not having 6 million going to administrative super intendants and office grunts. They can streamline those costs into hiring and firing the best and brightest and personably trained teachers.

Teachers not only need to know the course material fluently, they need to explain it well, notice possible students with behavior and learning disabilities, and how to effectively communicate with parents about their children.


Being a teacher should be an 80K job at the minimum.

 

<<Today, religious right groups are working to rescind these "Blaine Amendments". But, we don't only
have the religious to worry about. Chase Bank is in favor of charter schools (Donating over 300
million dollars to the campaign for them.). Wal-Mart's charitable foundation is pushing vouchers,
and donating millions of dollars here and there. ALEC, what Occupy Wall Street taught us about, is
in favor of privatizing public schools.>>

Gee, for being so bad at least all these people seem to want to break the dumbing down effort and provide quality for their young. Wow! What a bunch of assholes -
The stupidity and nonviability level has gotten so bad that people are desperate to provide something that resembles a quality education experience for a human.
Of course the result will be that somehow some schools and kids just thrive? Then there will be this smaller percentage that for some reason won't. There will also be a need to shop because some schools will be just a public school with uniforms, to serve those kids. Just because it is a private school doesn't mean it is the school you want your kid in.

No. There's no way I am going to vote against private education for the sake of the schools and the kids who thrive. This idea that everyone must go to the lowest and dumbest level to be politically correct is just a big trick and a joke. You don't hold life or potential back period. That's the "anti life"


Being a teacher should be an 80K job at the minimum.>>

I'm sure the teacher's union would agree, but that's about double. You over value the public school, it's "education" and it's products. Money does not fix that. There is no reason to invest more money there, it is throwing good money after bad.

It's going to be difficult to sell parents an ideal that does not exist compared to quality education experience which does.

 

The vast majority of Americans have been educated in the public school system, and as a result they're being claimed to be incapable of making the best choice of where to send their children to school, public or private? This doesn't speak well of the public school education system, or is it an indoctrination failure?

 

<<The battle has been going on for years now, the proponents of vouchers and private schools
continue their media onslaught against teachers, public schools, unions, and "Big Government" in a
thinly veiled attempt to push their agenda of continued segregation, >>

No, segregation has nothing to do with it. It is about quality, nothing more. People in America get to make educational choices free of race.


<<Their indoctrination of children
into their conservative religious views, >>

Which I think is still people's individual right? This "thinly veiled" rant about crushing human potential and development, seeking to dumb down ALL children because of the accusation of conservatism is upside down. In really tough times many, many people elect more conservative positions in an effort to preserve what they have and are striving for.

<<And their assault on science and the Enlightenment>>

That is a false tactic of generalized condemnation which could not be further from the real truth. At least children in private schools know what "science" and "enlightenment" are?

<<with the
ultimate goal of destroying the U.S. public school system.>>

No one cares about what the public school system does if they have elected private education. The local governments control the schools in their area, other involvement is all about getting more funding in exchange for teaching government issued, lowest quality education and propaganda. How dumb do you think people are?
These are the best arguments for private school and educational quality and freedom! Please continue waving the retarded commie flag because people really do need to see what's going on especially if they have children or care about any kind of worthwhile future for everyone.

Stupid and smart, positive and negative are not colors, religions or political parties but sinister people who play on human stupidity and ignorance continuously try to create that delusion when it doesn't matter except to incite hate and raise a stupid mob.
"The irrelevant parent" pfft! That's public school aggressively. Private people get what tbey pay for or they stop paying and buy somewhere else. It's astonishing the idiot making movement and how viscious they are! Thank G-d they're so stupid they can't fool everybody all the time or it would be a worse idiocracy than it already is!

 

You're trying to be slippery:

<< Yes segregation does. If it is about quality, why are the voucher schools doing no better than the
private schools and why would I send my child to an unregulated school which has no standards
for teachers or curriculum, can deny access to anyone they want and is not accountable?>>

They are ultimately accountable, we covered that already. They are directly accountable to the people who are paying them and whose child it is. Slippery sounding slanders and diversions doesn't change one bit that parents have more say and can expect higher standards in private education.
And...you specifically don't have to send your child to private school that's why there are public schools and parents still have the right to choose. You attempt another big lie, like bs'ers denying people their rights to push a commie agenda, by saying private schools have "no standards" when everybody knows that isby school and they do have better standards. You lie a lot. I guess you are trying to fool ignorant people? (Back to that stupid mob thing there...)


<< Yes it is, but not with my tax money. We have something called the separation of church and state.>>

Do you honestly feel that way about muslim schools, or are you just lying again? If it is not a semnary, it is a school. Buddhists have them too. The voucher program was so parents could buy other education. You paint big, false sensational pictures for idealogical claims which are completely broad, demanding everyone's rights be denied so you can get your way. You are the reason for private schools.


<< Why wouldn't they? Don't they belong to the same society that all those public school children will
eventually join? Doesn't their tax money support the public schools? Don't they wish to see all
children educated properly, even the ones in public schools?>>

Again, a big mouth accusatory forest fire to try and trick stupid people? Because...the parents of the children going to the school, the school board, pta and even children of a school are usually the ones who get to say.....I suppose you want to get rid of that too in your facist diatribe of dumbed down, compulsory propaganda dystopia education at your identical prison schools where the government makes sure your kid is ok? Again, how stupid do you think people are?

<<
Of course you know all about educational programs, curriculum, local, state, and federal funding,
metrics for educational evaluation, etc.>>

Actually yes I do, but that pales in the face of the lies and false tactics you have hurled with sledgehammer force in the hopes brute makes right....it wouldn't matter if I was a single parent wirh a ged! Anybody has sense enough to see through all that! Ahaha!

Remember now and be careful, when people become stupid and phony enough to be completely worthlesscommies do take over and the first thing they do is make it a whole buncha buncha less of the very idiots that let them do it being feckless, which is btw not cool and way out of style.

 

Most often the primary difference in the application of Democracy between the Left and the Right appears to boil down to providing "a choice" rather than "choices".

I've not seen anyone pushing to privatize all public schools, but simple provide competition, which in my opinion by providing competitive choices would put pressure on the public schools to improve, or at least provide alternatives for parents and students who want to get a good education.

All of us pay taxes, regardless of our beliefs or political leanings, and allowing parents and students to choose allows each of us a greater choice of where our tax dollars are being spent.

People are most free when they are allowed more choices, and government of a free society should only intervene when people make choices harmful to others. Indoctrination occurs when choices are reduced to but one, Governments duty to the governed is not to assure equality in outcomes for each individual, but to protect their freedom to make choices and hold them responsible for the choices they make. A free people in free societies should be free to succeed, recognizing the fact that along with that freedom exists also the freedom to fail. Competition is the ultimate promoter of progress.

 

Oh yeah agreed.

I just listed 1 problem (the lack of funding) from No Child Left Behind, but I am in no way saying that that is the ONLY thing wrong with the premise of that legislative Act.


The No Child Left Behind Act was based off of a bad understanding about how the human brain learns, and it's standardized tests show and narrowly define what it means to be "smart".

It's ideals and intention alone was good, but when the details got hashed out on what the law would do, it became a mess.

 

No, lets start here:

<<And so you continue to attack me.>>

If saying you are a lot of false claims and hot air is attacking you. That's anotjer typical tactic. You come in and attack intelligence and freedom of education with a big loud "whoop whoop" speech all teeth....but yoy're the victim. That's important to point out these days.

<<First I was a communist, now I'm also a fascist.>>

I can't decide? Your whole act is identical to We must liberate our comrades from the evil of tibet!" But you're talking about destroying parent's choice and will....I don't know? Is one stupider and a bigger monster? Idiocracy either way is the result.

<<You also accuse me of slander,>>

That's when you say bad things about people you have not a shred of real proof to back up or have skewed so bad you need a thorazine...

<<Of having a big mouth, >>

You absolutely do. Look at this thread.

<<of diverting the thread,>>

No, I think I said you were using education as a cover to rant for communist ideas and control of the feckless.

<<and being the cause
of private schools.>>

Yes. Anybody reading your arguments would say "I don't want my kid that clueless and eaily led. Quality education teaches people to think, not what they think.

So now that we've been through the whole "you're attacking me!!!" Attempt, used by liars most, we can move on - It's just important to me to point that little stuff out. You know, for parents.

Pathetic.

 

<< Teachers who teach in a nonpublic school (religious school) registered by the
Department of Education are not required to be Pennsylvania certified; however, the
school can choose to request certification of their teachers.

Quote:
The commonwealth is not empowered to approve the faculty or staff of any registered,
nonlicensed, religious schools. 22>>

Which leaves the ultimate power of selection and quality control in the hands of the school board and parents. It is as much a remedy for the intelligent to bring in an astronaut as it is for the feckless to have the neighborhood babysitter covering a class because they don't have a real teacher. In case you noticed, people aren't lining up to teach public school...but the law serves the progressive and the failed in your State and puts the burden of that on the people right there at any given school. State certified doesn't mean this earth-shaking crap you think it does, it just means meets the minmum...


<< All private schools must register with the state. All private schools must apply to the
stateBoard of Education for a license to operate unless they are run by churches or have
been accredited by a regional accrediting agency. Church-run and accredited private
schools are not required to seek a license, but may do so if they wish.

Quote:
Nothing in this provision empowers the commonwealth and its officers to approve the
course content, faculty, staff or disciplinary requirements of any nonpublic religious school
without its consent.>>

Again, education has always been in the hands of the schools themselves, except in socialist/communist holes. With it, it's called "Ability to choosr" without it, no one gets to choose at all. Not that hard and puts the burden on parents.


<< This means no one can be denied admission.

Private:
No one can be discriminated against, no education must be provided. I'll list the ways of getting
around discrimination if you like.>>

No, don't bother - yes! A school must have the right to say "not with OUR money!" (Just like you) because people need the right to say "we are not inthe business of baby sitting delinquents, dump off kids and uneducables who can't get moron training here because we have no moron teacher or padded, cut out stuff and make pictures moron class." Yes! Absolutely! There is no way the State or some moron association should be able to force schools to take people they never intended to and "do something" with them just because you "commie commie state is mommie" people and the State don't run these schools you claim are best but close them down more and more trying to find a place for bunches of little adhd goobers that were "left behind" a long time before they reached school age....that really destroys any quality. A private school is not a babysitting service. You have to have certain skills and Attitudes to get in, children and parents. A public hole any swine can go to, you're right.
People did use public schools 30 years ago before they went total crap for awhile. Now some are improving some never will unless the take out life sciences and put in more home ec and shop.
We're getting to orwellian classes don't worry. We just haven't gotten to an orwellian society quite yet.
See, first you get a stupid unreflective mob to destroy choice, then you start making the choices...history? Like, every time?


<< I have no problem with private schools that operate on the same playing field as public schools and
are entirely funded by private concerns. But don't try and compare a private, unregulated school
that operates under different conditions and regulations that a public school and then tell me I have
to give my tax money to them. And don't compare their educational instruction and results to the
public schools which are highly regulated and must accept every student, regardless of ability,
behavioral problems, criminal records, economic status, or psychological needs.>>

Then fight the funding not the school. You attack a school not the funding to justify your cause and truly, I am all for it. Those that go up must have a chance and those that aren't? I'm with YOU, takr away that voucher so the "world war z" crowd of dribbeling democrats have to shut up, go back home, fix their own dam schools, spend their own time and money on their kids and stop being a financial and social drag on everybody else as soon as possible one way or the other. You take them vouchers from those have not kids! I won't, but I don't have to, I have their "champion" to do it for me. So I get to save money and you are the one who took it away for me I didn't have to look that discriminatory and cruel to a have not kid with iq. Thanks!


<<The voucher system uses public tax money to fund private schools, some of which are religious. I
do not want my tax money to support any religious school. In addition it drains money from the
public school systems.>>

Good! That doesn't mean you tear down people's school you have no knowledge of on general accusations, like a perfect facist, you vote against and fight that voucher system that is taking your money for those kids! Duh...
But if you had gone to quality education you would understand that the best way to get rid of a bunch of stupid people no one wants anymore and remain civilized is to give the idiots a gallon of gas, a pinch of preach and let them go to town!

You don't need the state to destroy everybody's schools to deny kids vouchers. Attacking the schools really doesn't have anything to do with the funding. You don't want to pay for vouchers, I bet only the little "public schools in uniforms" profiteers are going to be disapointed because all they were after anyway.


<<
What a bunch of drivel.

The rest of your response was basically an attack on me.>>

It's like rebuttal to your wildly generalized hysterical attack on intelligence, quality and freedom of choice, full of false and empty arguments wherein all you really say is you want to pick what school your money goes to, not the person who was given the money to pick with. Monster. Got ya?.... just because you don't want the vouchers paying people who offend you, but people can't possibly take offence to low class, godless trash? Oh wait....you're deciding reality for everybody too, but whining about being "falselt" compred to a hitler or stalin, both of whom talked exactly like you right before they took the very people you think matter so.much ("Right on!") And did the rest of their people and economy a big favor. Happens every time. People like you are it's chanpions because it is easy to putzy them. Again, duh.

Good luck getting rid of vouchers. It is sad for kids but the rich can hardly complain at a turned down giveaway?

I think it's wrong to place a person in something that isn't them, smart or stupid, rich or poor, whatever religion. I have to be for letting people choose all they can because I expect to. If there was money poor people could pick what they want like others, it's super tacky for me to oppose that, especially for the fewer that did get it and could make a way for their selves. There will always be a big pile of those who don't.
In today's society, those who won't are still allowed to mill around and do pretty much what they want. In tomorrow's? I have my doubts...

(Agh using the phone sorry for typos)

 

What I think is that there is sheet and shinola ~ I think taking things and generalising and skewing out of all positive context, turning everything upside down in an attempt to choose for all sheet and letting, in an imperfect world of ever shrinking opportunities, people pick what they see and use for their selves the best people can do. It is more important to give someone who can drive a car than someone who can't a humvee.
I think that we have both represented each side well enough that about anybody could look through this thread so far and get a pretty good idea for their own selves. This thing about laborously repeating what one has already said because the tactic of ignoring it and skewin further is employed not only worthless to me, but serving of someone who's had enough air time already. (Oy vey!)

People need freedom and the right to choose. Those who do not have money and are given it by the state should get to pick for their selves. Only private money should be earmarked, not public, so people get to choose but the gov must be even. (a lot of folks have been doubting that "even" a little lately....)

If people think it is better for a child not to have a choice and be a prisoner of public school they will vote that I guess. I think choice is the lesser of two evils, allows for the nature of people and life and is the best we can do unless better ideas arise that are progressive in effect, not backwards in creating failure.

There's really nothing else to say and for all you have presented it doesn't seem like you have said much except that you want to choose what someone else got over their ideas, rights and free will. So do a thread called "No right to personal choice in education funding! Stop people who disagree with my values! Enforce Common Core!" And be even halfway honest. Beyond that, like I say I think the thread is representative so far and that'll do! (That means bye bye in case you were still going to be talking to me. Haha wanted to make sure you get that.)

 

I have worked in a private schools and public schools.

The private schools in rich areas are probably better so long as there is pressure from the families to achieve a certain standard, but where that pressure doesn't exist the private schools turn into excruciating, humiliating campaigns to satisfy the children's whims as well as the whims of not-so-amazing but very vocal parents.

It's a lot harder to work like that because the kids know they have power over you and will pressure you to be a certain way, and by that I don't mean teach... I mean entertain. You will have to back down every time a kid needs discipline for fear of that kid going somewhere else, because the manager can't afford to lose students. Bring in the candy, the prizes, the pop machines, the junk food, the corporate sponsors, the fucked up textbooks where president Coca Cola founded The United States of Exxon in the year 0 AD.

If it were all private then a lot of parents would simply choose to keep the money and not send their kids to school at all. I mean, say dad gets sick... are you going to keep him alive, or send little Jenny to school for another year?

And on top of that, some parents care but for a lot of them it's mostly about the status of saying their kid goes to such and such school... they don't give a shit if they're learning or not.

The quality of schools is already pretty shitty in some areas but if all schools went private I think that a lot of kids would just go straight to drug dealing/B&E from age 6. They wouldn't be able to pay teachers to work there, the school would basically fall apart. At least there's some degree of opportunity by keeping public schools open in the poorer areas. I suppose there's some off chance that without schools they would spontaneously organize themselves into something wonderful, but that's like some sort of sci-fi fairytale.

All of this bullshit about 'freedom' and 'choice' neglects the simple fact that most people can't afford to choose, can't afford to be free.

Protip: It's not free if you have to buy it.

Public school is the number one sign of a developed country... I have travelled to Nepal and Tanzania and the number one complaint from people I talked to there was the cost of sending kids to school. Of course, the government wasn't paying for their schooling because it couldn't afford to, not because it was corrupt. And that's exactly what happens when you take money out of public services and give it to 'the people' (which of course always means only the rich)... you get things like the majority of people never learning how to read, begging for the opportunity to carry huge packs of rich people's luggage up a 5000+ meter mountain while wearing shorts and second-hand sneakers without laces.

I cannot for the life of me imagine how anyone could be in favor of privatizing education... the US would turn into a third world country within 50 years if that happened.

 

<< The private schools in rich areas are probably better so long as there is pressure from the families
to achieve a certain standard, >>

Yup. It is up to the people paying for it and neither the govs responcibility or fault if they run more of an eating club than a prep program.

<<but where that pressure doesn't exist the private schools turn into
excruciating, humiliating campaigns to satisfy the children's whims as well as the whims of not-so-amazing but very vocal parents.>>

Public schools in uniforms....for profit deals like these private prisons. I don't think people are blind to that it's cleaning up the bath water without throwing the baby out. The answer is not to disable or destroy functional schools because some make other choices or priorities. As a parent you have to discern and decide, but reserve the right to do so.


<<All of this bullshit about 'freedom' and 'choice' neglects the simple fact that most people can't afford
to choose, can't afford to be free.

Protip: It's not free if you have to buy it.>>

But it is available to those who can and the idea of the vouchers was that those who wanted it and could not buy it would be able to. From there it got to be general arguments about situational climates...
There is something free everyone can get. As you say, more than some places have.

<< I cannot for the life of me imagine how anyone could be in favor of privatizing education... the US
would turn into a third world country within 50 years if that happened.>>

Umhmm. It is the contrast and evolutions that keep both not only necessary, but on their toes. If it went extreme either way it would be less desirable for everyone.
Schools rise and fall, hit ruts and adapt. Public and private have seasons of shining and not so shiny, lack being the stimulus for improvement.

But it's not the "boogeyman" of either to be blamed for each's triumphs or shortcomings - it's right back to school, parents, teachers and students. The beliefs and choices of the people most directly involved, affected and in charge which still allows the freedom to exceed minimum standards which is more important than being limited by some myopic and obtuse "universal standard" designed on the minimums and after a functionary philosophy.

It's really about letting those that will get all they can and leaving others their otherness. There will always be private schools that are "eating clubs" and public schools that are pits. No money level seems to be the fixing of that....

" It is nothing short of a miracle that modern methods of instruction
have not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry. - Albert
Einstein

Wonder what he'd think of Common Core? Yikes! Ahahahaha!