Pride celebrations: Your thoughts?

Friends:

I am curious as to your opinions on "Pride" celebrations.

Do you think that one's sexuality is something to"display" in public, or, privately, in one's own home?

As I am a very quiet and private man, I keep my sexuality private; I do not see any need to proclaim my sexuality to straight society; I am simply a senior (single, celibate) gay man, who lives quiet and simply, as gar out of the "spotlight"as possible.

IMHO, I feel that, in many Pride celebrations, there is far too much flamboyance and decadence involved, re-enforcing the many degrading (and embarassing) stereotypes associated with gay men.

Though I do not, personally, believe in the need for such celebrations, it would be very wrong of me to deny the rights of others who DO wish to take part in the various parades and celebrations, regardless of my thoughts and opinions.

Personally, I feel that the flamboyance, gaudiness, and the behavior of some participants only serve to give even more unneeded ammo to straight bigots, who only see gays as conforming to every degrading stereotype in the book--freaks, degenerates, half-men.

Again, I do most certainly believe everyone has the right to celebrate as they see fit; however, do so with true PRIDE, with dignity and self-respect intact.

Thank you, all, for allowing me to share my views and opinions here.......

 

I, too, am a private person and it's only due to anonymity here that I feel able to express my views with candour.

I think there's merit to your comment re flamboyance and decadence and, in particular, those consequences that you described.

By that, I mean; if the gay community were to consider themselves equal, shouldn't they behave like the rest of us, i.e. with no need to parade about?

Imagine if we each (gay, hetero, sexuality explorative, sexually 'outrageous' lol), each had a parade, freely and openly, to display our sexuality and sexual practices. I think one section of society which already dislikes the Pride event, would have even more to complain about or to be anxious about. I think that, sometimes, it's better to be a little discreet - less "in people's faces" - to avoid an upset to the comfort everyone should feel.
And I think that applies to many different groups be they preaching in the street, attending Pride, feminism and others.
(BTW, I agree with sexual equality but that the feminist movement was hi-jacked years ago and it's that more extreme 'in your face' element that made their 'struggle' more difficult for themselves because it was counter-productive).

Ramming one's 'culture' down another's throat, so to speak, ain't the way to bring people together in, at least, some form of acceptance. Often, it will alienate the others.

I say that as one who doesn't mind other people's choices so long as they don't force them upon me.

 

Thank you KathyL for that. I agree with fighting back to protect something important/special or that which we/many hold dear.
It's the way in which it is done that really matters and, if the 'way' alienates people (usually most easily offended are those the protest is trying to influence), it'll be counter-productive.
My description of feminism is that it went from protest to positive discrimination (esp in the work place) which wasn't balanced and wasn't fair in the true meaning of that word.
That alienated some men and indeed some women, in my locality at least, who finally believed what they had heard and ignored; that women were pushing men down and trying to take over.
That caused tension and resentment needlessly and was unwise to do so. I think Pride could learn from that experience to have a better, swifter solution.

my 2c.

 

Bazz888:

You've made some very good (common sense) comments here; i thank you for sharing here.

You mentioned the "feminist movement" being "hijacked"; I could not agree more.

I have always had tremendous respect for women who aspired to great things, and only looked forward to succeeding in life, and achieving equality with men.

Today, however, it is now much of a "she-world"; though I watch very little television, I have seen that almost all commercials now are female-oriented, or, at least, female dominated (don't these advertisers realize that there are also MEN who BUY their products? Unless,of course, these commercials are for feminine products)

Many commercials "dumb down" the men, while making the female the intelligent one.

This truly gets me ticked; I would hate such scenarios just as much if a female were purposely "dumbed down".

One local weekend news edition that I've watched for years has now virtually dispensed with all male reporters and correspondents; it's virtually all female now.

Even most of the "human interest" stories on the news are now slanted towards females (don't men do anything "newsworthy" these days?)

All-female news anchor teams are now commonplace; all-male news teams, on the other hand, are relegated to another time.

I have seen female news anchors "take charge" and chatter on, while her male counterpart sits alongside, painfully smiling, perhaps uttering a brief word or two (it is almost like these men KNOW who the "boss" is, and are afraid to overstep their "limits"; seeing a female sports anchor replace a male is also now commonplace.

One news broadcast (local) at noon has a m/f news anchor team; while the FEMALE anchor is ALWAYS replaced by ANOTHER female if she is out, the MALE anchor is ALWAYS replaced by a woman, making for another all-female news team.

"Double-standard"?

I think so; this "format" even carries over into news radio.

Yet, I steadfastly believe in FULL EQUALITY for women, regarding salaries, benefits, and, of course, RESPECT.

I have tremendous respect for a "high power" woman who got to where she is because, simply, she wanted to SUCCEED in life, NOT set out to prove she's superior to males.

One great woman I particularly admired was Dr. Antonia Brico; as a young girl, famed singer Judy Collins took lessons in classical piano from her, in Denver.

Antonia's passion was music; she indeed strove to become a classical conductor, which, at that time, was all male.

But through hard work, diligence, and confidence, she, eventually "made it", and became a world-renowned classical conductor.......truly a great inspiration to many, even today.

Back to "Pride" celebrations.......

Like yourself, (Bazz888) I am a very private person, and, when I think of all the flamboyance and "up in your face" behavior in Pride celebrates, I actually cringe, for I know that straight bigots are equating these characters with ALL gay men, which, of course, is degrading enough for straight talking, straight acting gay men like myself.

And, needless to say, attacks on gay males have been rampant for the past several years, some of them, sadly, fatal.

As I had stated previously, though, personally, I see no need to celebrate and publicly proclaim my sexuality, I would NOT take the right to march away from anyone; just do so with maturity, dignity, and self-respect........

 

Bazz88

Bazz888:

Well said, and I am TOTAL agreement.

You are echoing the very same opinions that I've held, for the past several years; you make a great deal of sense..............

 

Much of what you write has merit. Flamboyance and gaudiness might be considered extreme measurements in the normal distribution of our own bell-shaped curve. However, I'm not sure about the perceptions held by straight persons that I might be categorized as a stereotypical freak, degenerate, or half-man.

The PRIDE flag itself has evolved over time.

A Brief History of Our LGBTQIA2-S Pride Flag - Department of Mental Health

Ours (if I may use this pronoun) is a group of diversity. And while I might not feel comfortable with all members in my diverse group and while I might even want to align myself with a small sub-section of the group, I nonetheless think that it is important to let people of the HETERO-NORMATIVE, MALE-DOMINANT, NUCLEAR FAMILY PARADIGM know that there are others in the population who have a voice, who have rights, who wish to self express, and who want to be able to live without fear.
Now I don't and can't speak for all. I score highly in the Myers Briggs categories of introverted and sensing. I don't become alive and invigorated at parties or large events. My voice is not the one that shouts out, "I've got all my (brothers and) sisters with me!"
But I absolutely do see a need for PRIDE to be in the public eye and to let the UNIVERSE know that we deserve a safe place to be. When I was in college I went to rallies to ban nuclear reactors and to create safe rights for gay persons. I lived in an era of evil people such as Anita Bryant who wanted gay persons to be fired from their jobs as teachers.
Imagine being evicted from your apartment for being gay. Or how about having a healthcare provider refuse to work with you because you are lumped together with THOSE PEOPLE who 'have AIDS'. I've read it and I've seen it.
I've stopped going to PRIDE celebrations, but I can also say that I have seen them in New York City, San Francisco, Los Angeles, and London. I just no longer like being outside for long periods of time and I don't like being among the loud throngs of cheering wild people.
And yes, if you want to live a life that is quiet and free of spotlights, then you should be allowed to do so without being forced to conform to a segment of the rainbow that wants recognition.

 

You speak very intelligently, my friend.....a keen mind indeed goes hand-and-hand with both a good education and good common sense!

 

.......another valid reason why I think dignity, decency, and decorum are of great importance IF you take part in any sort of Pride celebration: if, several years after an event, you happen to spot yourself in a "stock footage" news clip or (in a phone vid posted on the 'net), at least you won't have to cringe at what you see, and say to yourself: "What the hell was I thinking, back then?"

 

Well,"just being yourself" is something I think at many of us take for granted, for one reason or another.

As I know that you are indeed a "people person", I am sure you had a great time today....glad you had a fun day!

 

Papa:

VERY well-written and VERY insightful.

You mentioned "outpouring against the norm" and "protest shout".

As I grew up in the 60's, and still recall all of the triumphs and tagedies, the many ups and downs, I very well recall the protests involving the then "counter-culture"; I especially remember the protests that seemed to be happening almost daily, regarding Vietnam.

From your words, I see that it was merely a matter of time before the "boiling point" was reached, and exploded in a HUGE way (of course, far too many innocent people were caught in the crosshairs)

Recall, Dr. Martin Luther King told us that there is nothing shameful about going to jail, if you are fighting for a good cause, namely equality and fair treatment, regardless of skin color, religion, etc.

Nowadays, with so much of society (here and abroad) in a vicious tailspin, I believe that the fight for equality, and unity, are very worthwhile, indeed.....after all, we are all in this together.....................

 

........one of the most serious issues regarding "counter-protests" (or, protests in general) is that we, sadly, now live in a highly-unstable world where mass shootings are now all too commonplace.

It seems that, these days, if someone is not carrying a gun, he's carrying a knife.

Law-abiding citizens (regardless of orientation) should, indeed, be able to protest peacefully, without the threat of shootings or stabbings...........

 

While not all protests devolve into chaos, all have the potential to. I don't think protests were ever "safe" endeavors, even when they were meant to be peaceful. If people allowed fear to stop them from fighting for what's right then nothing would ever change.

This article about a group of gay and transgender military veterans being banned from the Boston Saint Patrick's Day Parade demonstrates perfectly that bigots don't care how you look, they will still hate and still try to deny your rights to just live as anyone else.

As you can see in this picture, there is nothing flamboyant about these people that just wanted a place in a parade that is meant for everyone to enjoy.

 

The point of it is to make some noise and draw attention.

I would also like to point out that most parades are quite flamboyant

None of these are of pride parades, so why shouldn't those of the LGBTQ+ community have costumes that are just as outrageous and/or revealing as these?

 

Personally, the celebration of flamboyance, camp, and excess is a big part of what makes the LGBTQ+ community so wonderful to be in. Frankly, I hope it always stays that way, too.

I'm slightly biased on this question because 1) I'm a theatre kid, and 2) I've been able to see firsthand the blight of respectability politics dull the shine of the queer community. I worked at an LGBTQ+ community center for a brief time, and I felt that leadership was very focused on maintaining a clean, buttoned-up, presentable image to the rest of the world. I personally chafe against that mentality, as I don't believe that heteronormative standards should define queerness.

However, aside from my very, very strong feelings on this subject, I can understand how more introverted and private members of the community might feel alienated by loud and often overstimulating Pride parades. I'm autistic and don't care much for them either, but more because of the volume level and less because of the in-your-face-ness. I hope that more people create Pride events that cater to the quieter and more reserved members of the community (and the neurodiverse who struggle with crowds) that still embrace the spirit of protest and joy.

 

Very well said, my friend, and I thank you for sharing your opinions here with us.;

I am also sorry you have autism; that, I am sure, can make for some unpleasant situations.

I am in total agreement with you; Pride events that would cater to folks who are more quiet and reserved would indeed be a breath of fresh air for many.

Personally, i think that if straight and gay factions could meet together, discuss things calmly, rationally and maturely, and, with both sides giving a little and taking a little, I think great progress could be made.

IMHO, I truly believe that most of the trouble in this world exist because people simply do not sit down and talk with one another, listening to one another's opinions and points of view,like rational, tolerant human beings..........

 

It is unfortunate that we in the US have taken many steps backwards. LGBTQ is under severe attack.