Posh upperclass barbarians

What don't you get Sam? Humans are natural predators, humans are part of mother nature, should I spell that out for you?

The cases I gave are extreme now, but will not be if we stop hunting. You know mother nature "intended" for us not to go hunting, yep I talked to her yesterday....doin fine.....

 

Our basic, primitive instincts tell us to hunt and kill other creaures, especially those that we consider to be inferior to ourselves.

But some of us are no longer mindless walking gorillas. We have an evolved sensibility, a capacity for moral consideration that our purely instinctive ancestors did not.

Are some of us really still so primitive that we think we should decide not to use any moral intelligence, and to hunt and kill a defensless animal simply for our own amusement?

 

well i never actually hunted with a rock...but there was this old hippy back there who proven his point that teh spears are worthless. he picks up a rock, gets within throwing distance of a goat, pelts it in the back of the head, and has himself a goat...with every ones else looking on in awe with jaws dropped. lol. dude was one hell of a shot.


p.s. i myself much enjoy the farm raised beef tenderloin as well. but id rather not have to get my meat that way.

 

some dont see this as a moral issue.

also there are still isolated tribes in this world whose lives depend on their ability to gather food...be it by hunting, fishing, or other means, because they dont have (or want) a supermarket to go to to purchase a meal. and that makes them primitive?? so much so that they havent the ability to use moral intelligence? sub-human in some way? mindless walking gorillas, as you so put it?? look how much better our society is then theirs because we have "moral intellegence". lol, id bet these tribes are much better off then we are in more ways then one. (if you havent noticed our "advanced" cultures have been fucking things up on this planet for quite some time now...we breed a people who grow up lost and confused, with lifelong insecurities)



[/QUOTE]and to hunt and kill a defensless animal simply for our own amusement? [/QUOTE]what animal that is hunted is defensless? if nothing else they posses speed to out run their preditors. every animal with preditors has some sort of defence mechanism...thats the way mother nature intended it.





im not even a hunter really(the only hunting iv done was in kalalau)...but im not a vegetarian either. there are two sides to the argument, and basically what it comes down to is whether or not one beleives it is imoral to eat meat.

 

this is exactly what I said earlier, hunting for use is very different! these isolated tribes are using every part of the animal they are hunting. This does not mean they are sub-human. We in the western world do not need to hunt for use or subsistance anymore, we have the means and capabilities to live without random killing.

There is nothing natural about a rifle.

Morality is not the only reason for not eating meat. I dont eat meat, but I dont believe it is immoral. I am veggie for the environmental issues. The meat industry is the largest polluter in the US behind autombiles.

Sam

 

hunting isnt bad or stupid or barbaric as long as you are doing it for food. i'd rather eat a shot down deer than a hormone filled, caged up cow any day.

 

You misinterprited me somewhat; what I wanted to express was that I think it's primitive to kill an animal just for personal amusement.

The way I see it, hunting for food is something very different from, say, a bunch of rich english people going after a fox on their horses with dozens of hounds, and watching the fox being ripped to bloody chunks just because it gives them a kick.

But no, I didn't intend to imply that tribal people who hunt for food are primitive at all.

 

in that case...we're in agreement

 

huh....well I guess he was one hell of a shot lol.....

 

I'm glad John, that you can pick out these so called "primitive" instincts and isolate when and where you choose. How exactly do you determine what is a "primitive" instinct and what is not? Be specific, but because I believe many of our actions today are instinctive; whether or not they are primitive is up to you to prove.

Correct, we have a capacity for moral consideration. The brute animal does not. Animals do not have the slightest conception of morality whatsoever. Animals cannot reciprocate moral rules or of course laws, they have no rights. But by all means, continue your appeal to pity for the "defenseless" animals......

Also, hunting isn't done for amusement but rather for the sport.

 

Well apparently you either 1, have never eaten deer or 2, never eaten beef.

 

Finally! Someone to enjoy a farm raised steak with! Random killing....nah.....

Oh I beg to differ sir. Our brains are part of our natural self are they not? How about those opposing thumbs? Put it all together and whadayagot?

 

arent sports done for amusement??

sport and amusement seem like synonyms to me

 

hmm....I see it more as a humorous activity....and a sport more the challenge and competition....

 

of course I'm not against using what we have in terms of brain power. I was just arguing that its silly to say that animals arent defenseless because they can run fast or something. It isnt a fair fight between an animal in the woods and a hunter with a rifle. We have the brain capacity to make moral judgements about random, unnecessary killing, I say we use it!

 

Your argument would appear to be that animals have no capacity for any sense of morality, and therefore do not have any rights what-so-ever.

Most young children arn't capible of any moral consideration either. Does this mean that you would find it perfectly acceptable to slaughter a new born baby, you know, just for a bit of fun? For the sport of it?

 

I'd just like to say before I post, I've eaten deer, cow, chicken, squirrel, horse, etc. I have no problem with feeding myself with an animal that has had a fairly full life not stuck in a cage injected with hormones. I've grown up on a small farm and know the difference between factory meat and fresh meat.

Sometimes my family would have no money for food and would have to go out and shoot squirrel/deer to put food on the table-or starve.

However, I don't believe that anyone should just be able to kill living creatures for sport. I respect the animals and am thankful to them for providing for me.

How come no one feels guilty about eating plants? They have all the same rights as animals.

 

I can understand why certain people would believe plants to be deserving of moral consideration, but I'm not sure I agree with that. In my view, there is definately a difference between killing an animal and killing a plant.

But hey, your views are your own, you stick by them.