Political, Religious, Philosophical, Patriotic...

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by Gravity, Jun 28, 2006.

  1. Gravity

    Gravity #winning

    What do all these debates that continue non-stop actually accomplish?

    Is it just a means of blowing off steam?

    Really, what's the point?
  2. thumontico

    thumontico Member

    i think someone said it was a way we channel our sexual inadequacy
  3. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

    absolutely nothing, other then a way to get togather for people who don't have enough immagination to do so for some more creative reason.

    i think it's cool to say "this is how i'm seeing things at this time" and go on to descrive it. but i think that's the extent of it. seeing what other people believe or claim to believe or immagine that they do.

    i think the popularity of self deception over objectivity is appauling, but i don't consider myself or anyone else infallable.

    if anything, i'm not convinced anything needs to be.

    i think nontangable forces and beings are perfectly capable of existing without anything or anyone having to be.

    but there I go, getting into it.

    debate is meaningless. anything can exist, without anything having to, and that, near as i can tell, as almost the whole long and the short of it.

  4. Occam

    Occam Old bag of dreams

    Well OK

    Lets all stop talking about Religion, philosophy and politics.
    Lets forego imagination and fiction...why talk of the possible.?
    it dos'nt exist...whybother.
    Lets drop poetry and art... it's all subjective...who cares ?

    Lets just talk about the weather and what we all did today.
    What specials are on a KMart?
    How is job and whats the goss?
    Who is going out with whom?
    Did mary fuck john?
    Aint it terrible what those EYE-RAKYS are doing?
    Wheres my twinkies?

    This is not my choice of rational species..
    [not that we can be called such as a race].
    All that makes us great is called a waste of time.
    Lets all spend our time in pubescent conversation...
    with nary a concept to be seen.
    Kill me now please

  5. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

    personaly i'm rather fond of trees, trains, computers and little furry creatures with big sharp teeth. and i think something big, friendly and nontangable is cool too.

    just not that the latter has very much to do with either any sort of real morality, nor the mechanism by which we collectively create the conditions we individualy experience.

    and i believe the latter ARE important. just again that what any of us happens to believe or not belive has very much to do with either of them.

    nor for that matter, with big, friendly and nontangable either.

    i think there's all sorts of wonderful things we don't know anything about.
    but debating our speculations isn't, that i can see, going to make us any more knowledgable about them.

    it IS more fun to talk about then soap opperatic angst.

    just not as much as trees, trains, computers and little furry creatures with big sharp teeth.

  6. Occam

    Occam Old bag of dreams


    As is occam.
    Occam is not 'against' talking of anything.
    Just the overload of talk about things with little relation to
    the human place in this reality.

    If occam walked the streets of this town and asked randomly.
    'Hey... anything interesting going on?'

    He would not hear much about trees,trains,computers and small furry critters. [that would be cool if he did]

    He'd get a load of sport results and weather reports.

  7. Art Delfo

    Art Delfo It is dark

    becuase we arnt happy with the way things are, and if we know what causes it, then we can mabye change it or deal with it.

    Ignorence is not bliss, reality always bites you in the ass.
  8. Gravity

    Gravity #winning

    Sounds like somethin Freud would say.
  9. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

    yes, precisely why i don't bother doing so. people keep coercing each other into denying their immaginations and creative nature and pretending this is somehow 'adult' to do so, when in reality by doing so, they are denying the very and only thing that makes them human.

    i don't of course mean my personal focus of it, as i've mentioned, not exclusively by any means, more that by way of example.

    as we both know the core values of american society keep adamantly getting a couple of things almost exactly bassakwards. but nothing tangable in my knowledge has ever been eternal. i think lao tsu or somebody said something about that and so i believe there is hope, that like the dying of trees and the rotting of our own corpses, all things are effemeral, and so being thus, in time this too shall chainge.

    i don't believe debate creates knowledge, but if it atracts attention to ignored and eminently signifigant realities, well i don't mean to object to its doing so. that wasn't my intention. i just keep hearing a lot of repition, even myself doing it, because the same questions keep comming up. i suppose this is inevitable too. i should have more patience with people perhapse. and i would, except for the real suffering and real harm that is being caused, and i guess i may still be a stuborn child, refusing to believe this cannot, or at least some of the more common sources of it, be ended.

  10. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

    precisely! and what causes they way things are are incentives, these in turn being the statistical children collectively, of the priorities we actualy, as many if not most people are ignorant of doing, some innocently ignorant, some premeditatedly, actualy live by.

    neither this proccess by which we collectively create the conditions we individualy experience, nor any sort of real morality, have diddly squat to do, with what anyone believes or does not, but are entirely objective and indipendently observable.

    god or gods may exist, but this is an ENTIRERLY SEPERATE question.
    all sorts of nontangable friends are good friends to have, just like tangable ones, but WE, togather, by our priorities we ACTUALY live by, create those incentives, which motivate decission makers and everyone else, again ourselves included.

  11. Occam

    Occam Old bag of dreams


    True. And thats the core.
    Debate keeps the mind 'lubed and running'
    No mater what the topic.

    Many topics are 'functionally pointless' but who cares .
    they are interesting.
    Debate allows the refining of a personal method of thought.
    One that works in this reality

    And that is a very usefull thing.

  12. themnax

    themnax Senior Member


    well that IS a thought. the first one i'm not so sure we entirely aggree on, but that's good too, we wouldn't be doing this world a whole lot of good if we were exactly the same on everything.

    well some topics are more interesting then others. and to each person this is unique to themselves, which are more and which are less.

    a lot of those which seem to have the most people interested in them interest me the least. not because of their popularity as some sort of inverse reaction or anything like that at all. the're just not the ones that do.

    nor appearantly do many of those which DO interest me have all that much wide spread general interest. that's fine with me to.

    keeps them from getting watered down by people pretending to have an interest in them because they've been enculturated or otherwise persuaded to believe the're expected to.

    which is i think the point about politics and religeon and this tread.

    politics we can't escape from, like the campus crusade for chtulu "it found me". religeon, mostly we can, at least where and how i'm currently living, and for that i am indeed greatful.

    but i am full of thoughts, that somehow and some why, maybe it's just my ego or maybe it's who knows, that i feel compelled to share.

    maybe just because i'm not at peace with having to live with anyone in order to get by.

    when something upsets me i look for ways in which, if people lived and thought and acted, that sort of thing wouldn't happen. and when i find one, or think i might have found one, well, there's always a possibility this world or some part of it, might bennifit by my doing so.

    and i rather suspect this is how most beliefs and idiologies actualy got started. by people doing that.

    with the observably very mixed resaults.


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