Pledge of Allegiance Becomes Pledge to Obama

Discussion in 'Conspiracy' started by hippiehillbilly, Jan 28, 2009.

  1. Burnt

    Burnt Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter


    I am just appalled, where did you learn this, I hope it was not the public school system, they at least spill a fraction of the truth.
     
  2. Fyrenza

    Fyrenza Queen of the Ians

    So, now you are willing to

    COMPLETELY DERAIL THIS THREAD, :eek:

    even though most of us understood exactly what i said, and knew that it was all fact,

    to jump on your Racist Conspiracy Theory soapbox.

    Nice example ...

    of how NOT to post in a political thread with some sort of hidden Conspiracy Theory agenda you're stewing up. :rolleyes:
     
  3. Aristartle

    Aristartle Snow Falling on Cedars Lifetime Supporter

    I have no idea what you're talking about.
     
  4. Fyrenza

    Fyrenza Queen of the Ians

    How very astute of you! Private schools until high school, then DoD school. Private college.

    Now, what exactly did i say that was not verifiable fact?

    And, please ~ save yourself a lot of heartache and heartburn: Don't try to make this into a tree by tree dissection ~ let's just look at the overall Big Pic of the entire forest, okay?
     
  5. Fyrenza

    Fyrenza Queen of the Ians

    What a shock.
     
  6. Burnt

    Burnt Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

    The Native American people for the most part did not believe the land upon they lived belonged to them, it belonged to the creator. New settlers took advantage of this and took by force land that was sacred to the people. They infected them and slaughtered them to near the point of extinction. When the first settlers came to the new world there was over 60 million Natives, by WWII there were 800,000. Our country and our government murdered 59.2 million people for fucking land.
     
  7. Aristartle

    Aristartle Snow Falling on Cedars Lifetime Supporter

    Fyrenza, everything you had to say about First Nations' People is not verifiable fact.
     
  8. Burnt

    Burnt Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

    You are right on the bead trade, The native people did trade alot for what we know now as worthless beads, But they had not seen such things and where taken advantage of. But that is not how the new settlers came into power, it was through force and murder. There were many treaties signed and ignored through our government ensuring freedom and a right to live that never became true.
     
  9. Fyrenza

    Fyrenza Queen of the Ians

    Correct ~ the Native Americans thought we were the ones that were crazy, wanting to trade our FABULOUS junk for something they believed no one could own.

    The new settlers were probably as shocked as it as we are ~ they thought the Native Americans were crazy.

    So a trade was made. Everyone walked away happy.

    When folks got UNhappy, there was a war. The Indians lost. Yet and still, they are allowed their own lands, with their own laws/rules, not forced into assimilation with the rest of us, given subsidies to help them, financially, ... We treated them as best we could, and if they are unhappy, the treaties need to be reviewed.

    Bottom line is that while i neither participated in, nor condoned, ANY of what happened in our past,

    there isn't a damned thing i can do to change it. ALL i can do is try to learn from it, so that i don't make the same mistakes. Just because i choose to look at the Big Pic, and am NOT willing to lay blame at anyone's door for those atrocities, doesn't make me a racist or whatever it is you're so sure i am.
     
  10. Aristartle

    Aristartle Snow Falling on Cedars Lifetime Supporter

    Not everyone walked away happy. Stop making shit up.
     
  11. Aristartle

    Aristartle Snow Falling on Cedars Lifetime Supporter

  12. Fyrenza

    Fyrenza Queen of the Ians

    Did you gyp them? Did i have a say in the treaties?

    Right.

    Would you ever, in your wildest dreams, do those sorts of things to native peoples? Do you believe that i would fight against you about that?

    Exactly.

    It's over and done with. None of us would do those sorts of things to other folks. Blaming people for what happened in their country's past is ,

    well,

    TROLLING, imho, and has no place on any sort of forum, unless it's a TROLL FORUM... :p
     
  13. Fyrenza

    Fyrenza Queen of the Ians

    i don't recall war breaking out, INSTANTLY, over the worthlessness of the trade, so it logically follows that, from that first trade, EVERYONE WALKED AWAY HAPPY.

    And THAT's how you constantly sidetrack the topics. :rolleyes:

    stfu
     
  14. Burnt

    Burnt Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

    That is not the case, the Natives knew the land could not be traded for trinkets knowing it could not be traded at all, it did not belong to them. Items where traded but not for land, for permission to use the land not take what was not theirs to begin with.
     
  15. Fyrenza

    Fyrenza Queen of the Ians

    Oh, Ari,

    rest assured, pal,

    WHATEVER it is that you're watching and/or reading?

    i'll be wanting to steer W - A - Y clear of it...
     
  16. Aristartle

    Aristartle Snow Falling on Cedars Lifetime Supporter

    I highly recommend that people read Howard Zinn's book, "A People's History of the United States" if they are interested in learning about what they don't teach you about the history of the USA inside the classroom.

    Specifically, Fyrenza you might want to look over the first chapter of his book. It tells a story of history from the voices of real people.

    Here's a link:

    http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/zinncol1.html
     
  17. Fyrenza

    Fyrenza Queen of the Ians

    From their standpoint, if it couldn't be owned, then they were trading nothing for "something." It must have sounded like a good idea, at the time, for everyone involved.

    That's the whole point of bartering and trading ~ what you HAVE to trade is priceless; what you WANT is just a little something-something. When 2 groups meet, to trade, imagine the joy of finding that the other guy wants NOTHING for his FABULOUS something!

    Don't for a second think i don't know how it all came a-cropper; it's just that it doesn't really matter, anymore, if we've learned the lesson that was there.

    And that's why all this "Your country did THIS horrible thing, and THAT disgusting thing, and ANOTHER atrocious thing, and you should be ASHAMED of your country because of the past doings" type of stuff is so ridiculous, imho.

    Just saying...
     
  18. Burnt

    Burnt Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

    I am ashamed That I live in such a country that committed and still allows genocide to fill it's needs. I wish it were not so but yet it is true.
     
  19. Aristartle

    Aristartle Snow Falling on Cedars Lifetime Supporter

    Burnt is correct.

    The FN people did not view the state of nature like the Europeans did.

    Europeans were living to eat, & not eating to live as the Natives were, when the Spaniards came. Europeans thought the Natives were just not developed economically enough.

    FN people believed that they belonged to the land. They didn't understand the concept of the land belonging to them.

    When Europeans were sectioning off land, cutting it up to pieces to colonize every inch of territory, FN people were given land and reserves that they were supposed to live on and live off of. In the Natives' minds, they'd think "What do you mean you're giving us land? We've lived here for generations. We do not own land, we belong to it."

    You really should read some Howard Zinn, Fyrenza.
     
  20. grimjivey

    grimjivey Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

    I thought we'd gotten the Pledge of allegiance declared unconstitutional because of the "under God" line.
    I thought that kids were not doing the pledge anymore?
     

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