Please help: Talk between McKenna and Shulgins

Discussion in 'Psychedelics' started by pconst163, Apr 22, 2013.

  1. pconst163

    pconst163 Guest

    Hi all. in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaIAxd7al8w

    terence and shulgins talk and at about 6:00, there is something that puzzles me.

    I am new to this and I want to do psychedelics for a spiritual quest.
    What intrigues me is that terence says to shulgins: "you've seen more uncharted inner landscapes than half of the human population together". "How can you not be nuts?"

    my question is. what are the implications that terence means ? After taking these psychedelics.... Also, what can be so amazing about it ? Do you guys see beings talking to you, other realities ? all kinda of inside us, but somehow we are protected from it and these drugs open or tunne we into these realities?

    thank you very much

    Paulo
     
  2. MeatyMushroom

    MeatyMushroom Juggle Tings Proppuh

    "Nuts" is a relative term, and knowing Terence, that's probably his dry sense of humor. I haven't watched the vid cos Flash isn't working, but I dunno.

    The only chance you have of going nuts is if your family is prone to any mental disorders, psychedelics have a chance to stir things up and trigger that. Otherwise, you'd be called nuts by the ignorant(not in a mean sense of the word), who're boxed in by social, political, environmental and other such influences.

    The implications of taking a psychedelic drug are... life changing. They give you a chance to experience and see the essence of life for yourself, beyond environmental conditioning(one reason you might be called nuts, as stated above).
    For spiritual use, I'd recommend taking alongside a good dose of eastern philosophy of some sort, I find it grounds the experience a lot more and it just seems "easier" to condense and apply to day to day life.

    I've never seen beings talking to me, but I haven't smoked DMT. In sober reality, that shouldn't be happening. If it does then, uhh... D'OH!

    As for the last question, I don't think there are other realities. I think it's just the one, but it's very messy, and we're not "protected" from it, we're just making it digestable by saying giving things names, which forms a perception of what reality really is etc. and blah blah blah. It's a deep subject and you could write a whole series of books on it, but yeah.

    Psychedelics are serious shit, even if they don't seem it sometimes.
     
  3. Mr.Writer

    Mr.Writer Senior Member

    Imagine the entire world was color-blind, they could only see black and white. One day a man comes around and can't stop talking about this incredible "blue", this amazing "green", this powerful "red" . . . he sounds like a maniac to the other people, because they have no way of understanding what he's talking about; it's gibberish.

    That's one way of understanding what Mckenna meant. Another way is that the psychedelic experience is very life changing, very mind changing. It has the potential to really change the way you think about things, your attitudes about absolutely everything. There is basically a correlation between the amount you trip and the amount your mind is changed. Someone like Shulgin who has taken a psychedelic drug tens of thousands of times is going to have a much different psychoneurology than most people. His brain will have formed new connections and lost old ones perhaps. Compared to the general population his mind/brain will be quite different. Mckenna jokingly references this as "being nuts".

    One more way I could interpret Mckenna's comment, is that some people unfortunately abuse psychedelics and take them too often, in too high doses. This can cause psychological and neurological impairment in the form of cognitive damage, emotional fragility, schizotypic behavior, etc. Mckenna is asking Shulgin how someone who tripped as much as him avoided any negative repurcussions.

    So in summary it can reference the concepts that Shulgin has, his brain/mind as a functional organ, and/or finally the mere weight of so many such experiences of "going out of his mind" on his sanity.

    For me there are two layers of "amazing" to psychedelics; there is the fun side, and there is the serious side; the line between the two is not always clear, and a good trip will remove the line entirely. The fun side refers to everything that's pretty and feels good about it; the colors, the visions, the movement, the emotional euphoria, the feeling of love, the sensation of constant orgasm, the laughter, the way music sounds and the way human body feels, etc . . . basically all the sensual, sensorial aspects.

    The serious side is that they can show you how to solve problems in your life, in lives of others, they can show you what you should do in the future, what you should avoid doing, what you mean to yourself, what others mean to you, what you mean to others, what life is about, who you are, where you are, what you are . . . basically the philosophical, existential aspects.

    Considering that a good trip will contain ALL of the above elements, and LOTS of it, you can see that each experience is unbelievably rich and dense in meaning and pleasure.

    I have never seen other entities during a psychedelic experience. While I greatly admire Mckenna's intellect and many of his theories, I do think that it is in fact Mckenna who is a bit "nuts" ;). I believe people who see entities on their trips (especially DMT) are just attributing "entityness" to psychedelic content and matter; I think that every psychedelic has particular niche applications, for example DiPT causes auditory alterations par excellence. DPT causes ego death excellently. 2c-b causes sensualness excellently, etc. I think DMT causes perception of entityness excellently :). I also think this is largely influenced by placebo. So many people learn so much about DMT entities before they smoke it, and that expectation influences their trip. I think it's exciting to think that smoking a psychedelic can open your mind to another dimension full of sentient beings who are made of pure language and can create objects out of nothingness, and live in a geometrically fluid paradise beyond our wildest imaginings, but I think that it's simply not the case, and people have wound themselves up in the Mckenna-DMT-entity meme and want it to be true very much.

    To me, even if it's not true, psychedelics are still pretty much the most amazing thing that exists.

    I don't think psychedelics take you to another reality; I think they show you how poor your understanding of Reality was before you took them :)
     
  4. pconst163

    pconst163 Guest

    Thank you very much for your kind reply.

    I have always had deep existential questions, and the only drug experience i have is having smoked cannabis once, and this experience was very very weird, my body didn't react well to it at all, I lost contact with reality, but was still conciouss of myself, my body started doing repeated and fast movements, my eyes too. and at the end, i did felt some peace though, i felt my conciousness expanding and i actually thought i was god or something.

    i took about 5 long hits, and i think this is why it hit me so hard.


    I have bought some magic truffles from amsterdam and they should arrive soon, i am thinking of trying them, although i am a bit worried. I do have a cousin who is a bit off the normal plane of mind, but nothing so serious. But apart from that I am not aware of any other cases in my family.


    In your experience, would you think this is a good idea?

    Thank you so much again.
     
  5. Mr.Writer

    Mr.Writer Senior Member

    Just start with low dose, mushrooms are a billion times more powerful than cannabis :)
     
  6. FlyingFly

    FlyingFly Dickens

    Most people perceive psychedelics like something extremely dangerous, because it is playing with your brain, etc, etc.
    It just seems natural for people that you will go nuts after it, but what life shows most psychedelics are more safe than we think, when used properly.

    Just eat those shrooms and see it. :) See that it is real. That this world that people relate to when speaking here really exists.
    It is impossible imo to properly describe this feeling, so the non-user will truly understand.

    + it also depends on which plateau you will get
     
  7. gendorf

    gendorf Senior Member

    They both look nuts to me.

    What I love is the fact that Shulgin is in a lot better condition at his age than the "I never did drugs" smokers and alcoholics.

    "the first thing that goes when society hits a wall is democracy"
    love this one.
     

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