plans to kill animals to make into diesel

Discussion in 'U.K.' started by jonny2mad, Apr 20, 2007.

  1. jonny2mad

    jonny2mad Senior Member

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6571993.stm



    American oil company ConocoPhillips and Tyson Foods, the world's biggest meat producer, have announced that they will produce diesel from pork fat. Cows and chickens will also be transformed to power motor vehicles.

    Since 2005, US oil companies can benefit from a dollar-per-gallon tax incentive for creating renewable fuel from animal carcasses and other food wastes.

    they are going to be getting tax breaks for turning animals into fuel

    so would you like to travel in a car run on slaughtered animals .

    Also for people who think this is a good idea think of the EROEI energy return on energy invested .
    Your using loads of land and energy to grow feed to feed animals to kill them to make fuel, its very likely your using more energy to produce less energy .
     
  2. soaringeagle

    soaringeagle Senior Member

    veggie oil is the only sensable solution & if this is an american company why the fuck are u discussing it in the uk forum? wouldnt it hsve been better to place it somewhere more appropriate?
    it has zero to do with uk & isnt being done in uk..

    right?
    plz move it wherever it belongs
     
  3. Roffa

    Roffa Senior Member

    I think it's quite legitimate for people in the UK to have concerns about things that happen in other parts of the world and to share their views with other members of the UK forum. After all who knows, if this process is a "success" it might well be replicated over here. If you disagree, please at least try to use more temperate language.
     
  4. lithium

    lithium frogboy

    Yes, we often discuss world issues from a UK perspective in this forum, there's no need to be so churlish about it...

    From what I gather this is using waste products from the food supply chain to turn animal fat into diesel, it's not breeding animals specifically to use them for fuel. Even so it's pretty sick, and not an answer to the fuel crisis in any way, just a way of temporarily keep our cars and power stations running for a fraction longer. There's no way this could produce anything like enough fuel to replace current energy needs, only a tiny fraction.

    Food production is part of the energy waste crisis anyway, we need to be reducing the amount of animals farmed for food, we need to be encouraging people to eat less meat and go more vegetarian, since that is so much more sustainable and less wasteful than our hideously inefficient meat production processes.
     
  5. L.A.Matthews

    L.A.Matthews Senior Member

    Eagle, we have a strong community in the UK Forum, and we discuss things amongst ourselves. True enough, this probably does seclude us from the rest of the forum, by our own doing. We probably have a much tighter community than that of the rest of the forum, and we all understand each other and don't let our differences come between us. You're welcome to participate, but please don't question it.

    Skip has kindly let us have our own abode, so to speak, where we can discuss things amongst ourselves as British people. The UK forum isn't just another place for people to talk about UK stuff; it's a whole community in itself.
     
  6. Raskalization

    Raskalization Making plans for Nigel

    Wow, i didn't expect that... yeah I agree with you on the veggie oil. Hemp oil, rape seed oil even coconut oil can be used. The big problem that the government(s) have with this, is the taxability of an unrenewable fuel. It's going to make some very powerful people very very rich indeed soon. They simply wouldn't get rich as quickly from these eco-friendly oils. We depend on these co-existing government and oil companies...and that's the way they like it. I think using animal fat for fuel is ridiculas considering the grow rate of hemp. Ethynol powered cars should also be considered, even mephane powered engines which filter your poo poo would be better than the pork powered car.
     
  7. Its become trendy to criticise eachother for not "keeping your opinions where they belong" or not "sticking your nose into world affairs", but the fact is a world affair is a world affair, these things affect us all, brits included. We have no right to say the killing of these creatures is wrong in this forum? Next people will be saying we should shut up about the canadian seal hunt, or the near extinction of animals like the elephant or the child sex trade just because our mothers gave birth to us on this island.

    I know this isnt what you were saying, eagle, you were saying it simply doesnt belong in this forum. But as others have said this is a place for UK folk to get together and talk about, well anything, and i think world matters certainly belong here
     
  8. lithium

    lithium frogboy

    I don't think the case for fuel crops has been made convincingly, as Jonny said, it suffers from a serious fundamental problem that at the moment it requires more energy to produce ethanol from fuel crops than we actually get from the resulting ethanol; they need to be planted and harvested as a massive mechanised industry if they are going to even approach being efficient, this takes a vast amount of energy to do and if we wanted to grow enough fuel crops to cover our current energy use, a significant portion of the planet would have to be devoted to fuel crops...
     
  9. Power_13

    Power_13 insult ninja

    Additionally, we're all shit scared of the rest of the forum. It's all just trolls and ruffians once you step out of this sanctuary, after all.
     
  10. Raskalization

    Raskalization Making plans for Nigel

    This isn't strictly true for all fuel crops. I remember seeing an interesting film about a community in Bougainville Island who have managed to refine coconut oil to fuel diesel engines. They'e managed to get by without devoting any land for their resources, maybe we could learn a thing or 2 from these bushwackers. I can't find this film anywhere, it's been erased from existence.

     
  11. lithium

    lithium frogboy

    Yes you're right, I think biofuels grown in the tropics can have a net energy benefit, whereas those grown elsewhere can have very low or even negative energy efficiency. Another issue is the deforestation of the rainforests which are being cleared to plant palm oil for use as biofuel and the consequent release of CO2 and destruction of a carbon sink.

    Biofuels can only ever cover a tiny fraction of current energy needs and very inefficently, so I think the idea that biofuels are going to allow us to continue with our current levels of consumption is very wishful thinking! It's very far from an answer.
     
  12. Raskalization

    Raskalization Making plans for Nigel

    Do you think it would make an impact if these fuels were confined to transport use only? We have other ways of fuelling the national grid....wind, water etc... maybe we should look into sub fuelling vehicles with solar panels for slow moving areas, cities etc...

    Wishful thinking might save the world one day.
     
  13. lithium

    lithium frogboy

    Fair point!:D

    I'm sure biofuels and alternative energy sources will be part of the solution. I just think the approach to the issue is skewed - we need to be looking at dramatically reducing our energy use in the short to medium term rather than finding ways to replace oil while still using energy inefficiently at an ever increasing rate - I don't think there will be a magic bullet and we need practical solutions fast. I'd still support research into alternative fuel sources but feeding biofuels into the current global energy model is just putting an ineffective plaster onto a gaping wound!
     
  14. Raskalization

    Raskalization Making plans for Nigel

    That's a very well put veiw Lith, I'm absolutely with you on that. A gradual decline is inevitable, in terms of mass production. I don't think it will effect us with a thud. The closer humans have to work together to gain a sustainable lifestyle the better, having everything made for you and presented in a nice little package is everything that's wrong with modern man/womankind, it won't be missed when it's gone. [​IMG]
     
  15. dapablo

    dapablo redefining

    I have no problem with creating fuel from waste products, methane should be obtained from all of it imho. I don't think of this as an experiment to cure the energy crisis more of a tidy way to clear things up, whatever your own personal thoughts about animals for food, the vast majority do eat meat, what happens to all the waste from a carcass usually, thrown away ?
     
  16. lithium

    lithium frogboy

    The article said that this material is usually used for soaps, cosmetics and petfood. It was also introduced as a way of addressing the energy crisis, but I suspect that's largely marketing guff from the oil company concerned. This is another example of energy producers steering resources from other areas (compare biofuel crops encroaching on the rainforests and food industry) as a temporary and largely pointless way of appearing to address the energy crisis when in fact it does nothing of the sort.
     
  17. dapablo

    dapablo redefining

    Still sounds like a good idea then. C'mon no-one is a fan of the petro-chem industries but maybe its a good idea with honest intent, but that would be boring.
     
  18. lithium

    lithium frogboy

    That's naive. It sounds like an attempt for an oil company to try to appear like they are addressing a problem which the measure they are introducing patently does not address...
     
  19. Peace-Phoenix

    Peace-Phoenix Senior Member

    Why do we have to kill animals to make soap? Why can't we just kill Jews instead? Things were so much simpler in my day, during the Third Reich, when we didn't have any of these namby pamby things like morals and human decency you hear that evil PC brigade going on about....
     
  20. FreeWind

    FreeWind Member

    Maybe, i know this sounds stupid but just maybe we could.....
    Drive our cars less! We could (lithum will like this) cycle, or maybe even walk! Or take a train. If we did that we wouldn't need much Bio-oil so the rainforest won't be cut down to plant farms to grow it and there-for there would be less Co2........ ect ect.........
     

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