On Thomas Paine...

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by niranjan, Jun 4, 2007.

  1. niranjan

    niranjan Member

    First of all, I wish to say I am very honoured to speak on Thomas Paine, whom I consider to be one of the greatest men who ever walked on earth.



    I read this when I was in school and I have never forgotten it all these years. This is one of the most powerful quotes I have ever read in my life and which has greatly influenced me.


    The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.

    -----Thomas Paine



    As they say , "Quality is better than quantity."

    This single quote of Paine, is worth more than a thousand religious discourses and a thousand discourses on philosophy.

    In the past few weeks , I have been going throug his amazing works online, studying them, especially "The Age of Reason" , and I found it to be very educative indeed.

    I was also pleasantly surprised to see that Abraham Lincoln , an another hero of mine, was a student of Paine as well, and had gone through Paines works carefully. And Lincoln is considered world wide to be americas greatest president.

    So did Americas greatest inventor, Thomas Alva Edison, who is a self-confessed fan of Paine.

    And so indeed is Robert Ingersoll, one of Americas greatest humanists,political leaders and orators, who himself have influenced millions.


    I also learned that it was Thomas Paine himself, who coined the name, 'United States of America ' .

    Paine was also a fighter for abolition, women's rights, child's rights and animal rights long before they became popular.


    It is also a fact that Thomas Paine was the man who influenced and created the american revolution , and greatly influenced the french revolution as well, both of which set the example and standard for republicanism, democracy and equality to the whole world. And indeed every nation and people who pride on their democracy, republicanism and equality and freedom should be grateful to Thomas Paine.


    And what I most admire in Paine is his terrific strength of character, which never compromised on his principles.

    In fact his staunch idealism and integrity created problems for him in life, as he attacked even his friends who were not following what he felt to be right and proper.


    For example Paine attacked Washington, saying "I do not know whether you have lost your principles or that you never had any" ,when he realized that the American revolution had been hijacked by an elite, as was happening in France. He was also violently opposed to Washington owning slaves.

    Napoleon claimed he slept with a copy of 'Rights of Man' under his pillow and went so far as to say to Paine that "a statue of gold should be erected to you in every city in the universe." However, Paine quickly moved from admiration to condemnation as he saw Napoleon's moves towards dictatorship, calling him "the completest charlatan that ever existed."

    I guess if Paine was a hypocrite , and didn't criticize Washington or Napoleon, his life would have been much easier . That indeed is true, but I guess Paine 'unfortunately' had too much strength of character , which prevented him from doing anything of that sort.

    Which reminds me of a quote by George Bernard Shaw...

    "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. "


    Below I would like to put a few quotes by Thomas Paine, which will shed more light on his brilliant mind....


    THESE are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value.

    ---Thomas Paine





    I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church.

    ---Thomas Paine


    “Reputation is what men and women think of us; character is what God and angels know of us.”
    ---Thomas Paine


    “'Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death.”
    ---Thomas Paine



    “Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.”

    ---Thomas Paine



    “It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry.”

    ---Thomas Paine

    “He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression;for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself.”
    ---Thomas Paine


    “The strength and power of despotism consists wholly in the fear of resistance”.
    ---Thomas Paine


    “One good schoolmaster is of more use than a hundred priests”.

    ---Thomas Paine




    The harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly; it is dearness only that gives everything its value. I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress and grow”

    ---Thomas Paine



    “An army of principles can penetrate where an army of soldiers cannot.”

    ---Thomas Paine


    “Persecution is not an original feature in any religion; but it is always the strongly marked feature of all religions established by law”

    ---Thomas Paine


    The real man smiles in trouble, gathers strength from distress, and grows brave by reflection”

    ---Thomas Paine



    Any system of religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be true”

    ---Thomas Paine


    It is an affront to treat falsehood with complaisance”

    ---Thomas Paine

    The most formidable weapon against errors of every kind is reason.”

    ---Thomas Paine






    I also wish to state that it is my personal conviction that Thomas Paine should have become the first president of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, or at least a president after that, considering his unparalleled contribution to the American revolution.

    And if he had indeed become the president of the UNITED STATES , the history of America and the whole world would have drastically changed for the better. Sadly , it was not to be.

    However his disciple and student, Abraham Lincoln,through his own presidency, rectified this grave historical error to a certain extent.


    Here is a link on Thomas Paine...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Paine
     
  2. rebelfight420

    rebelfight420 Banned

    And Lincoln is considered world wide to be americas greatest president.

    not by me!
     
  3. niranjan

    niranjan Member

    Why , is it because he condemned and abolished slavery, which probably is supported by a good 'christian' like you. Probably this is the reason why you consider Lincoln a great sinner.
     
  4. natural philosophy

    natural philosophy bitchass sexual chocolate

    thomas paine is one of my favorite authors and 'age of reason' completely changed the way i view the world.

    woow woow.

    and yea, abe lincoln sucked. johnny booth is the real american hero
     
  5. natural philosophy

    natural philosophy bitchass sexual chocolate

    lincoln didn't abolish slavery.
     
  6. niranjan

    niranjan Member

    And your an idiot.
     
  7. niranjan

    niranjan Member

    And a perverted racist.

    Reason : I just checked your John Booth in wikipedia just now.
     
  8. rebelfight420

    rebelfight420 Banned

    QUOTE=niranjan]Why , is it because he condemned and abolished slavery, which probably is supported by a good 'christian' like you. Probably this is the reason why you consider Lincoln a great sinner.[/QUOTE]



    first of all I am a atheist!!!! for the 100th time!



    1-No because the tariffs he put on the south were outrageous! 20 percent of the population paying 80 percent of all tariffs. Mind you this is pre civil war.



    2- Allowed general Tumescah Sherman to declare "Total war" which is a brutal tactic of war allowing even citizens to be targeted! This brutal form of killing wasnt used since Ivan the terrible.



    3- The South right to seccesion was a right declared by the 10th admendment.

    all powers not given to the federal government shall be given to the states.



    4- One of the very few presidents to wage war without the approval of congress



    5- Stated-

    "My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume V, "Letter to Horace Greeley" (August 22, 1862), p. 388.



    6-"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume III, "Fourth Debate with Stephen A. Douglas at Charleston, Illinois" (September 18, 1858), pp. 145-146





    7- Also every developed nation in the past got rid of slavery by compensating the slave owners EX - England and others. We are the only country that got rid of slavery by the slaughter of nearly 1 million people.



    look up on your facts before you judge me.
     
  9. natural philosophy

    natural philosophy bitchass sexual chocolate

    thanks

    haha

    but back on topic, thomas paine was the shit
     
  10. rebelfight420

    rebelfight420 Banned

    ^ yes he was ! hooray for thomas paine even though he is my 3rd favorite author!
     
  11. niranjan

    niranjan Member

    Which probably is the reason why you were telling FedUp to stop in the christianity forum. Talk about hypocrisy.














    Which probably is a machiavellian tactic on his part, to get people to support him in abolition.

    After the Union won the war, he immediately set all slaves free, which is one of the most humane things ever done by a ruler.

    And he , after this, then started talking about allowing voting rights to the negros as well. And it was at this point of time that he was shot dead.

    Negroes also stated about his humane consideration and care for them , and about how he never let them feel as if they were inferior or slaves.




    And you think that was a noble thing to do. And if you say yes to that, I will have to say that you are a racist.



    Well, if the confederacy agreed to Lincolns order to liberate the slaves in the first place, none of this would not have happened.

    And I am totally convinced now.
     
  12. niranjan

    niranjan Member

    So you say that you loved Paine, and that he influenced you, and now u r saying that he is shit.

    I pretty well know from this, who is shit.
     
  13. rebelfight420

    rebelfight420 Banned

    Which probably is the reason why you were telling FedUp to stop in the christianity forum. Talk about hypocrisy.

    No I told him to stop bcause I was getting tired of his repetitive bickering over Christianity. Even though I agreed with him 99 percent of the time.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rebelfight420
    7- Also every developed nation in the past got rid of slavery by compensating the slave owners EX - England and others..

    And you think that was a noble thing to do. And if you say yes to that, I will have to say that you are a racist.

    Yes it was noble it prevented bloodshed and no casualties were caused. Dozens of countries including France Spain England etc... ended slavery peacefully by giving the owners compensation we are the only country that brang about emancipation through violent conflict.


    "Which probably is a machiavellian tactic on his part, to get people to support him in abolition. "

    So saying African Americans are inferior will help aboltion ( not making too much sense thier buddy)



    "Well, if the confederacy agreed to Lincolns order to liberate the slaves in the first place, none of this would not have happened."

    Oh of course because if he freed the slaves the tariff issues would have been settleled and the states rights issues
    The Civil War was about slavery, yes. But it was about more than slavery. And slavery was about more than racism. It was about economy. Lincoln represented certain Northern industrial interests which were at odds with the Southern agrarian system. The South seceded not out of sheer hatred for Afican Americans, but to protect their economy (built, though it was, on the backs of coerced black laborers). Lincoln wasnt really entitled to wage war on the South, but he did it anyway—revoking states rights and setting the precedent for unchecked federal power, which remains in place today. Some might call that fighting for freedom. Others might call it establishing tyranny.


    "And I am totally convinced now."

    even though we may disagree with each other on things I hope a rather small altercation doesnt affect the bond we have as people.
     
  14. Zadria

    Zadria Member

    He said Thomas Payne was the shit not is a shit.
     
  15. natural philosophy

    natural philosophy bitchass sexual chocolate

    thomas paine was the shit. the same way pancakes with blueberries are the shit.
     
  16. niranjan

    niranjan Member

    Then why didn't you say that instead of defending churchianity, in your posts.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rebelfight420
    7- Also every developed nation in the past got rid of slavery by compensating the slave owners EX - England and others..

    And you think that was a noble thing to do. And if you say yes to that, I will have to say that you are a racist.

    Well, I think probably Lincoln would offered the same thing as well. I am pretty sure that the war hurt him a lot, and he definetely would have no problems whatsoever in compensating the slave owners.



    You have to understand , there was rabid opposition to abolition at that time, and Lincoln was playing his cards tactfully, agreeing with his opposition and at the same time presenting his views as well, which was very radical at that point of time. If he presented all his radical ideas at the same time, none would have supported him.

    He had to go slow and steady.

    And this is quite clear when after the war, and when the slaves were freed, he started talking about giving voting rights to them.




    What BS. If he had not fought against the south, the south would still would have been practicing slavery in the 21 st century, and being constantly criticized by the world. Lincoln helped the south really.

    Your statements on Lincoln being a tyrant is idiotic.

    I will give you an analogy. If a noble man walking around sees a group of idiots trying to outrage a lady, he will then fight against them, using his knowlege of martial arts, and beat them up and free the lady and takes her home.
    A so-called ' righteous' christian however will condemn this hero's actions on the grounds that his actions violated Jesus's commandment of showing the other cheek when the right cheek was slapped and non-violence.

    And you resemble this so-called christian with your statements.





    No problem with that. :)
     
  17. niranjan

    niranjan Member

    Ok ,now I get it. Sorry about the misunderstanding. Another cool hippy lingo for me.
     
  18. niranjan

    niranjan Member

    TRIBUTE TO THE ORIGINAL AMERICAN REBEL WITH A CAUSE




    Let them call me rebel, and welcome; I feel no concern from it. For I should suffer the misery of devils, were I to make a whore of my soul.

    ---Thomas Paine
     
  19. niranjan

    niranjan Member

    Quotes on Thomas Paine




    "Thomas Paine needs no monument made with hands; he has erected a monument in the hearts of all lovers of liberty."

    -- President Andrew Jackson


    I have always regarded Paine as one of the greatest of all Americans. Never have we had a sounder intelligence in this republic… It was my good fortune to encounter Thomas Paine's works in my boyhood… it was, indeed, a revelation to me to read that great thinker's views on political and theological subjects. Paine educated me then about many matters of which I had never before thought. I remember very vividly the flash of enlightenment that shone from Paine's writings and I recall thinking at that time, 'What a pity these works are not today the schoolbooks for all children!' My interest in Paine was not satisfied by my first reading of his works. I went back to them time and again, just as I have done since my boyhood days.

    ---Thomas Alva Edison.



    "I never tire of reading Paine."

    -- Abraham Lincoln



    "I consider Paine to be our greatest political thinker."

    - Thomas A. Edison



    Most Americans don't know a lot about Thomas Paine, but they carry Thomas Paine with them. Thomas Paine really defined the American spirit.

    --Harvey Kaye


    He (Thomas Paine )saw oppression on every hand; injustice everywhere; hypocrisy at the altar;venality on the bench,tyranny on the throne; and with a splendid courage he espoused the courage of the weak against the strong.

    --Robert Ingersoll


    "Had he been willing to live a hypocrite, he would have been respectable, he at least could have died surrounded by other hypocrites, and at his death there would have been an imposing funeral, with miles of carriages, filled with hypocrites, and above his hypocritical dust there would have been a hypocritical monument covered with lies."

    -- Robert Green Ingersoll on Thomas Paine, in "Our Infidels"
     
  20. SunshineChild

    SunshineChild Mad Scientist

    I haven't read much of Thomas Paine, but from what I have read I can tell he definetely had 'common sense'. ;)
     

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