okay, this is just sad.

I have a friend... He was an atheist. big one. He goes church, because his family didn't know he was an atheist, and it was the same thing, his family wouldn't be accepting of it. So he was forced to go to conformation [is that it?] classes. dosn't like it. a few weekends ago, he went with the kids in his class and a priest or something on a 5-night trip, comes back a theist. I feel so bad for him. I just think it's unfortunate, because he never wanted to go to church, and now hes been "brainwashed"

does this sound bad to you?
or okay that hes found a new belief?
should I just not give a shit?

any thoughts on all of this?

 

sounds like he wasn't very strongly convicted in his atheistic beliefs.

he had a change of heart, doesn't mean he was brainwashed.

 

I think he was. He just never had his own evidence to back up his beliefs. What a NDE is caused by, why this and that happens, etc. being around a group of people that think strongly about something and do it in a kind manner can very much make you change your beliefs.

 

Believing in God is not necessarily a bad thing. A lot of people find comfort in religion. You're 15 so I assume he is about your age. Believe me, he will swing back and forth many times before he finally finds something he is comfortable with. Don't be too concerned - you can be his support system if he becomes disallusioned with religion. You sound like a good friend.

 

Do you have any reason to believe that he was actually brainwashed? As oppose to, like, being persuaded, or changing his mind of his own accord?

 

yes, and if he was strongly convicted in atheism, neither the number of people, nor the amount of kindness they showed would cause him to change his stance.

At any rate, kindness isn't brainwashing in my book. And if he is 15 as you are, he isn't even in possession of a fully developed mind. Still plenty of time to dance.

 

Indeed. They say a liberal is just a conservative who's never been mugged. A teenager who isn't experimenting with various ideologies isn't worth shit.

 

Maybe he stumbled upon a few magic mushrooms during this transforming 5 day 'trip'

 

they've got that tendency, ya know :cheers2:

 

Isn't it typical though? Anyone who changes their mind to what we believe is just rational and sensible, but anyone who changes their mind away from what we believe has been brainwashed by some sinister death-cult!

 

oh yeah, it's amazing how one-sided and unaware an "open free mind" can be

Its a source of amusement for me at least, to see people become a proponent of the same type of narrow thinking that they claim to despise. I've been casually following your "debates" with a certain unnamed hipforumer in a few other threads with one of these on my face --->

But oh well, you know what they say, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. I guess it's up to them to figure out that they merely are representative of the flip-side of the coin.

 

oh, I only said that because he was like, 'they totally went into my mind and fucked around with the gears"

 

sorry, I honestly didn't mean "brainwashing" like that. kinda why I had put in quotation marks..

 

isn't brainwashing sort of useless if you are consciously aware of it?

 

Try discussing his conversion to the dark side with him. FInd out what it was that convinced him that the Christian god exists. Eons ago, when I was 15, I went to a Southern Baptist Rivival week thingy and came out a southern baptist. I was lutheran prior to going to the meetings. At that age, the church and its believers can be very convincing. Not to mention the camaraderie and feeling of belonging can also be convincing. As friends, you owe it to each other to discuss this. If your friendship is strong, it will survive a discussion on the subject.

 

"brainwashing"
not
brainwashing
I couldn't think of a better term at that moment

but yes. xD

 

well, it's not a 'dark side' ..I just consider it a 'dumb side'

interesting. Did you eventually go back to being an atheist after? how long after, and what convinced you?
This is exactly why I think he did this... I just think I'm gonna not bring it up. I feel like an ass doing that... It's like I don't do that to my other theist friends. but I still find it a bummer... hopefully its a phase

 

I'd agree if they were, like, 25. But I do think that, if you're going to discuss someone's religion, you can't go stampeding in with the attitude that it's "the dumb side". It's no different from discussing any other belief or opinion with the preconceived standpoint that it's stupid and anyone who believes it must have been brainwashed (while your own beliefs are not stupid and should be believed by all right-thinking people). It's rude.

I'm saying this because, if the OP manages to offend the guy by talking to him about his religion, I wouldn't assume that there was any brainwashing going on. No offense, OP, but if you go in with a negative attitude, he could quite reasonably take offense.

I'd advise you to think long and hard about whether this is worth jeapordising your friendship over. I have many friends who believe things I don't agree with. I have remained their friends after knowing this because those things were trivial and didn't come up much. In the end, if you didn't spend all day discussing how awesome it is that God doesn't exist, then his conversion shouldn't really make that much difference to your friendship. I would urge you to keep that in mind. There are things which are worth risking a friendship for, and I don't think this is really one of them.

 

I'd accept his beliefs unless he feels like it is a problem. If he comes to you for help about the situation, you can help him out. But this is a choice that I think he needs to figure out on his own without you telling him what is right and what is wrong.

 

It has been my experience that people do what they feel is right for them without much regards to how other think or feel about there decisions. If your friends belief in god makes him feel better about himself, then that a good thing.

As far as brainwashing goes, that is what all religions (Cults) do. Only priest and con men want you to have faith.
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